stitch welding the chassis with a flux welder? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Enjin · 04-06-2008, 11:37 PM

I know NOTHING about welders or the difference between tig, mig, flux, WHATEVER.

I figure things out pretty quickly and am pretty good with my hands tho. I have access to a flux welder... would this be a good candidate for stitch welding my chassis? why or why not?

I'm trying to get educated!

racepar1 · 04-06-2008, 11:44 PM

Before you worry about what welder to use I think I should educate you on the glories of stitch welding. In short, fuck nissan and all their god damn seam sealer!!!!!!! :hammer: In detail, it will take a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG time to prep the seams to be welded! First you have to grind off the sealer that you can get to with a wire wheel attachment on a die grinder. Then you have to burn out whatever sealer you couldn't get to somehow (like with a torch), especially on the panels that are welded on top of eachother. If you don't do that then you will have problems burning holes in the metal due to the sealer in between the panels. Then you have to finish prep the seams with a die grinder with like a scotch brite disk. The welding is the easy part. I did the front end of my car. Prepping took FOREVER! Welding took a few hours. Then after that you have to paint. Once again with that prep/masking takes FOREVER! Painting takes a couple hours.

96Turbo · 04-06-2008, 11:44 PM

i'm curious as well. I know a nice MIG with shielding gas is ideal....but all i've got is a flux core welder. I'm considering some stitch welding when i repaint my engine bay, but would it end up looking sloppy with the flux core??

racepar1 · 04-06-2008, 11:46 PM

Sloppy doesn't really matter. You would be amazed what paint will cover up.

Enjin · 04-06-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Before you worry about what welder to use I think I should educate you on the glories of stitch welding. In short, fuck nissan and all their god damn seam sealer!!!!!!! :hammer: In detail, it will take a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG time to prep the seams to be welded! First you have to grind off the sealer that you can get to with a wire wheel attachment on a die grinder. Then you have to burn out whatever sealer you couldn't get to somehow (like with a torch), especially on the panels that are welded on top of eachother. If you don't do that then you will have problems burning holes in the metal due to the sealer in between the panels. Then you have to finish prep the seams with a die grinder with like a scotch brite disk. The welding is the easy part. I did the front end of my car. Prepping took FOREVER! Welding took a few hours. Then after that you have to paint. Once again with that prep/masking takes FOREVER! Painting takes a couple hours.

man that sounds wonnnnnderful lol

I really have no problem giving time to this project. I find it relaxing, even in tedium.

wrapmeup2005 · 04-06-2008, 11:51 PM

Yes it will look sloppy with a flux due to splatter. If you can, try to get access to a gas mig

Enjin · 04-06-2008, 11:52 PM

can the splatter be ground off/down or is it too excessive?

babowc · 04-06-2008, 11:53 PM

you can always wirebrush off splatter.. but it'll still look like ass.

i thought all you had to do was clean welding area and strip the panel glue with wirebrush on a drill?

racepar1 · 04-06-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enjin

can the splatter be ground off/down or is it too excessive?

Don't grind welds, it makes them weaker.

babowc · 04-06-2008, 11:56 PM

splatter =/= welds.

you can grind/wirebrush em off.

racepar1 · 04-06-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00tang

you can always wirebrush off splatter.. but it'll still look like ass.

i thought all you had to do was clean welding area and strip the panel glue with wirebrush on a drill?

A drill is too big to get into a lot of places, so is a die grinder for that matter. If the trapped sealer starts burning while you are welding, which it WILL, you will end up burning holes in the panel you are working on. Trust me I did it and I didn't burn out the sealer. It was fucking annoying.

Enjin · 04-06-2008, 11:59 PM

still lots to learn...like not grinding welds to make them counterproductive. maybe I will try not to cram this info into my brain while I'm trying to finish up my EFFING genetics 7202 lab scientific paper EFFFFF THIS.

fun fact: did you know that every single bit of you is passed down to your offspring? personality, character traits, not only the physical? nature vs nurture... nature provides the primary characteristics.

although it does offer a good escape.

babowc · 04-07-2008, 12:01 AM

hm.
if you need to write a paper.. maybe you should get off of Zilvia and concentrate.

although i was in a similiar situation as you were, a couple days ago.

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enjin

still lots to learn...like not grinding welds to make them counterproductive. maybe I will try not to cram this info into my brain while I'm trying to finish up my EFFING genetics 7202 lab scientific paper EFFFFF THIS.

fun fact: did you know that every single bit of you is passed down to your offspring? personality, character traits, not only the physical? nature vs nurture... nature provides the primary characteristics.

although it does offer a good escape.

It's not the knowledge that is the problem. Grinding, burning, and spot welding are all pretty easy. After you spend one weekend stripping your car down to nothing and I mean NOTHING! No interior, wiring, engine/trans, rear subframe, basically just a bare chasis for access and to prevent from lighting something important on fire. If you wanna weld the pillars you need to remove the glass as well. And then spending another weekend grinding/burning sealer, you will want to kill yourseld when you realize you are not even close to being ready to start welding. When I re-do my chasis I am going to look into acid dipping it, the prep work is THAT bad!

sac · 04-07-2008, 12:13 AM

^^ have you priced out acid dipping? i have kinda thought about doing something like that. Takes the "fun" out of it but its alot quicker than all that time grinding and scraping and shit.

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 12:17 AM

I haven't really looked into it yet as I don't have my own garage where the car can sit untill I get it back together and I just can't clog up a bay at my shop for months on end. I'm gunna do a quick google search out of curiosity though. If it's somewhere around $1000 or so it will be worth it as the time it takes to do all the prep is worth way more than that.

Enjin · 04-07-2008, 12:17 AM

man NOTHING can conquer this ADD

my chassis is pretty damn bare right now. EVERYTHING is out, save the motor, which I might have to pull out anyway. I've done it many times before, not a big deal.

I am replacing all of the bushings too with that contained in the RSR kit. that is going to be FUNNN...

I think the mexicans and I are going to have to battle for who's music gets into my ears this weekend as I prep, I found someone with a mig... LOCAL SCENE BOOYAH

donkayroo · 04-07-2008, 12:28 AM

People already touched base on this topic in the recent past...

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=179947

Bottom line, if your gonna put tons of effort prepping you're better off doing it right the first time unless you have a lot of time, energy and funds to burn.

Whatever you decide, have fun!

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 12:30 AM

Fuck the coating crap, I live in CALI! YAY, no rust worries. I know after you get the chasis back from being dipped you need to neutralize the acid, but that's it. My buddy used to work at a race shop around the corner that builds shelby's, mustangs, and other vintage cars and that's all they did. Also you would want to weld it before you put the final coating on.

92coupe · 04-07-2008, 12:52 AM

I have welded everything, down to weld on mufflers, random thin sheetmetal, the Tenzo racing seat rails I made for the hatchback, even crappy thin bicycle frames with an arc (stick) welder. I have ever heard you can do aluminum with the right rods but I've never done it. Most of this was overkill, but I can tell you 2 things I know.
1. It will look bigger/sloppier and you need to be good at it...it's less glue gun easy than a mig or tig.
2. Strength. If you are good and do it right it won't break, like EVER.
Downside is it will rust really fast, it's really easy to start fires and burn tiny holes and pits in random things.
I don't know when I will actually buy a mig or tig...I guess if I ever find anything that the arc can't do or I start to care more about how it looks.
You probably won't want to do this, just thought I would throw it out there since I have been a welding buff since I was 8 or 9 years old

One more note on the strength issue...this is how we have welded on the tongues to mobile homes that we have been tasked with moving from time to time, and we have twisted the tongue and warped the frame before the weld ever ever cracked or showed signs of stress.

04-06-2008, 11:37 PM	#1
Enjin Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Memphis, TN / Osaka, Japan Age: 38 Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	stitch welding the chassis with a flux welder? I know NOTHING about welders or the difference between tig, mig, flux, WHATEVER. I figure things out pretty quickly and am pretty good with my hands tho. I have access to a flux welder... would this be a good candidate for stitch welding my chassis? why or why not? I'm trying to get educated! __________________ 1991 Nissan 240sx www.tractionoptional.com

04-06-2008, 11:52 PM	#7
Enjin Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Memphis, TN / Osaka, Japan Age: 38 Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	can the splatter be ground off/down or is it too excessive? __________________ 1991 Nissan 240sx www.tractionoptional.com

04-06-2008, 11:53 PM	#8
babowc Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: G.NET Posts: 2,659 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	you can always wirebrush off splatter.. but it'll still look like ass. i thought all you had to do was clean welding area and strip the panel glue with wirebrush on a drill? __________________ My iTrader rating!

04-06-2008, 11:56 PM	#10
babowc Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: G.NET Posts: 2,659 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	splatter =/= welds. you can grind/wirebrush em off. __________________ My iTrader rating!

04-06-2008, 11:59 PM	#12
Enjin Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Memphis, TN / Osaka, Japan Age: 38 Posts: 375 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	still lots to learn...like not grinding welds to make them counterproductive. maybe I will try not to cram this info into my brain while I'm trying to finish up my EFFING genetics 7202 lab scientific paper EFFFFF THIS. fun fact: did you know that every single bit of you is passed down to your offspring? personality, character traits, not only the physical? nature vs nurture... nature provides the primary characteristics. although it does offer a good escape. __________________ 1991 Nissan 240sx www.tractionoptional.com

04-06-2008, 11:44 PM	#2
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	Before you worry about what welder to use I think I should educate you on the glories of stitch welding. In short, fuck nissan and all their god damn seam sealer!!!!!!! :hammer: In detail, it will take a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG time to prep the seams to be welded! First you have to grind off the sealer that you can get to with a wire wheel attachment on a die grinder. Then you have to burn out whatever sealer you couldn't get to somehow (like with a torch), especially on the panels that are welded on top of eachother. If you don't do that then you will have problems burning holes in the metal due to the sealer in between the panels. Then you have to finish prep the seams with a die grinder with like a scotch brite disk. The welding is the easy part. I did the front end of my car. Prepping took FOREVER! Welding took a few hours. Then after that you have to paint. Once again with that prep/masking takes FOREVER! Painting takes a couple hours.

04-06-2008, 11:44 PM	#3
96Turbo Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: AZ Age: 36 Posts: 1,315 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	i'm curious as well. I know a nice MIG with shielding gas is ideal....but all i've got is a flux core welder. I'm considering some stitch welding when i repaint my engine bay, but would it end up looking sloppy with the flux core??

04-06-2008, 11:46 PM	#4
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	Sloppy doesn't really matter. You would be amazed what paint will cover up.

04-06-2008, 11:51 PM	#6
wrapmeup2005 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 300 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Yes it will look sloppy with a flux due to splatter. If you can, try to get access to a gas mig

04-07-2008, 12:01 AM	#13
babowc Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: G.NET Posts: 2,659 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	hm. if you need to write a paper.. maybe you should get off of Zilvia and concentrate. although i was in a similiar situation as you were, a couple days ago. __________________ My iTrader rating!

04-07-2008, 12:13 AM	#15
sac Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The SLC, Utah Age: 39 Posts: 794 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	^^ have you priced out acid dipping? i have kinda thought about doing something like that. Takes the "fun" out of it but its alot quicker than all that time grinding and scraping and shit.

04-07-2008, 12:17 AM	#16
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	I haven't really looked into it yet as I don't have my own garage where the car can sit untill I get it back together and I just can't clog up a bay at my shop for months on end. I'm gunna do a quick google search out of curiosity though. If it's somewhere around $1000 or so it will be worth it as the time it takes to do all the prep is worth way more than that.

04-07-2008, 12:28 AM	#18
donkayroo Zilvia Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCAL Posts: 222 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	People already touched base on this topic in the recent past... http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=179947 Bottom line, if your gonna put tons of effort prepping you're better off doing it right the first time unless you have a lot of time, energy and funds to burn. Whatever you decide, have fun!

04-07-2008, 12:30 AM	#19
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	Fuck the coating crap, I live in CALI! YAY, no rust worries. I know after you get the chasis back from being dipped you need to neutralize the acid, but that's it. My buddy used to work at a race shop around the corner that builds shelby's, mustangs, and other vintage cars and that's all they did. Also you would want to weld it before you put the final coating on.

04-07-2008, 12:52 AM	#20
92coupe Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mobile, al. Posts: 11 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have welded everything, down to weld on mufflers, random thin sheetmetal, the Tenzo racing seat rails I made for the hatchback, even crappy thin bicycle frames with an arc (stick) welder. I have ever heard you can do aluminum with the right rods but I've never done it. Most of this was overkill, but I can tell you 2 things I know. 1. It will look bigger/sloppier and you need to be good at it...it's less glue gun easy than a mig or tig. 2. Strength. If you are good and do it right it won't break, like EVER. Downside is it will rust really fast, it's really easy to start fires and burn tiny holes and pits in random things. I don't know when I will actually buy a mig or tig...I guess if I ever find anything that the arc can't do or I start to care more about how it looks. You probably won't want to do this, just thought I would throw it out there since I have been a welding buff since I was 8 or 9 years old One more note on the strength issue...this is how we have welded on the tongues to mobile homes that we have been tasked with moving from time to time, and we have twisted the tongue and warped the frame before the weld ever ever cracked or showed signs of stress.