Teach me grammar

[g6civcx]

I am not a native English speaker. Therefore I don't fully understand American grammar.

Does anybody want to teach me something about grammar? Anything?

I keep seeing things that don't really make sense to me, and since I never had proper grammar classes, I really want to know.

Like this one for example:

Originally Posted by http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/10/georgia.russia/index.html

Tskhinvali, the capital of the separatist Georgian province of South Ossetia, lay in smoldering ruins Sunday after three days of fighting between Georgian troops and Russian forces.

Is that the correct form to use? What's the difference between "lay" and "lie"?

I know most of you = , but I'm really confused

[SW20Racer]

dude, to be honest its the little words like "lay" and "lie" that i dont even concern myself with anymore.

"im going to go lay down"

"im going to go lie down"

i dont know which one is "right". they both sound good to me.


supposedly, english is the hardest language to learn because we have butchered our shit up beyond recognition.

FUBAR!

[demonspeed]

lay means to put or place in a horizontal position or position of rest or to set down or to dispose or place in proper position or in an orderly fashion.

Lie means your not telling the truth

[koukimonster139]

wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

[MikeisNissan]

what he said ^

[demonspeed]

Originally Posted by koukimonster139

wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

i think hes talking about the difference between lay and lie

[DOOK]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

i think hes talking about the difference between lay and lie

and I don't think he was asking about the definition of the words specifically either... getting into this subject you're starting to talk about the tense usage of different words, where among english scholars you will have difference in opinion.

I agree about your posts being grammatically correct though, probably more so than most of us who are native speakers. Don't worry about it unless it's some sort of legal document or something. Different parts of the United States have different regional dialects that change the meaning of individual words and phrases, so it's practically impossible to identify a "correct" way of saying some things over another way.

[MikeisNissan]

He is talking about the English grammar in general.

[demonspeed]

grammatically if your "sleeping" then your gonna want to use the word lay...as in "I'm going to lay down"

you know what? nvm...i just did a google search and I'm all messed up lol! and my mom has a degree in this?! crazy

[g6civcx]

Well, according to Webster:

Main Entry: 1lay
Pronunciation: \ˈlā\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): laid \ˈlād\; lay·ing
Etymology: Middle English leyen, from Old English lecgan; akin to Old English licgan to lie — more at lie
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1: to beat or strike down with force
2 a: to put or set down <lay your books on the table> b: to place for rest or sleep; especially : bury
3: to bring forth and deposit (an egg)
4: calm, allay <lay the dust>
5: bet, wager
6: to press down giving a smooth and even surface
7 a: to dispose or spread over or on a surface <lay track> <lay plaster> b: to set in order or position <lay a table for dinner> <lay brick> c: to put (strands) in place and twist to form a rope, hawser, or cable; also : to make by so doing <lay up rope>
8 a: to impose as a duty, burden, or punishment <lay a tax> b: to put as a burden of reproach <laid the blame on her> c: to advance as an accusation : impute <the disaster was laid to faulty inspection>
9: to place (something immaterial) on something <lay stress on grammar>
10: prepare, contrive <a well-laid plan>
11 a: to bring against or into contact with something : apply <laid the watch to his ear> b: to prepare or position for action or operation <lay a fire in the fireplace>; also : to adjust (a gun) to the proper direction and elevation
12: to bring to a specified condition <lay waste the land>
13 a: assert, allege <lay claim to an estate> b: to submit for examination and judgment <laid her case before the commission>
14often vulgar : to copulate with
intransitive verb
1: to produce and deposit eggs
2nonstandard : 1lie
3: wager, bet
4dialect : plan, prepare
5 a: to apply oneself vigorously <laid to his oars> b: to proceed to a specified place or position on a ship <lay aloft>
— lay an egg : to fail or blunder especially embarrassingly
— lay eyes on : see, behold
— lay into : to attack especially verbally <laid into the referee>
— lay on the table
1: to remove (a parliamentary motion) from consideration indefinitely
2British : to put (as legislation) on the agenda
usage lay has been used intransitively in the sense of “lie” since the 14th century. The practice was unremarked until around 1770; attempts to correct it have been a fixture of schoolbooks ever since. Generations of teachers and critics have succeeded in taming most literary and learned writing, but intransitive lay persists in familiar speech and is a bit more common in general prose than one might suspect. Much of the problem lies in the confusing similarity of the principal parts of the two words. Another influence may be a folk belief that lie is for people and lay is for things. Some commentators are ready to abandon the distinction, suggesting that lay is on the rise socially. But if it does rise to respectability, it is sure to do so slowly: many people have invested effort in learning to keep lie and lay distinct. Remember that even though many people do use lay for lie, others will judge you unfavorably if you do.

Originally Posted by koukimonster139

wtf are you talking about


99% of your posts are grammatically correct

I don't claim to know anything. I just copy what others do. I have no idea if what I'm posting is correct most of the time

Originally Posted by DOOK

Don't worry about it unless it's some sort of legal document or something.

That makes me worry even more I write legal briefs for a living

Originally Posted by demonspeed

you know what? nvm...i just did a google search and I'm all messed up lol! and my mom has a degree in this?! crazy

See what I mean? I'm confused as hell

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

lay means to put or place in a horizontal position or position of rest or to set down or to dispose or place in proper position or in an orderly fashion.

Lie means your not telling the truth

lay is a irregular verb i.e. it describes an action but needs a direct object to describe an action that is being done.

Lie describes an action undertaken by a subject but has no direct object.

For example I lied, or I lie down. Is a action taken but there is no object. Moreover its something done.

the building lay in ruin. is an object and the action is it is no longer standing but in ruin.


Oh I should add lay is quite often used in the past tense vs lie being used in the present tense.

P.S. you scare me. LOL You write legal briefs and you don't even know the language that well. You just copy other people. Seriously get yourself a English tutor and start conjugating those verbs.

[cc4usmc]

I think his post is sarcastic and he's just trying to point out that people's grammar sucks these days... especially for someone who's posting for CNN. I suck when it comes to using proper grammar.. but some people.. wow. that reminds me.. i need to post my "for sell" thread..

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

lay is a irregular verb i.e. it describes an action but needs a direct object to describe an action that is being done.

Lie describes an action undertaken by a subject but has no direct object.

For example I lied, or I lie down. Is a action taken but there is no object. Moreover its something done.

the building lay in ruin. is an object and the action is it is no longer standing but in ruin.

Is that "transitive" vs. "intransitive"?

How do you conjugate "lay" then?

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

I think his post is sarcastic and he's just trying to point out that people's grammar sucks these days... especially for someone who's posting for CNN. I suck when it comes to using proper grammar.. but some people.. wow. that reminds me.. i need to post my "for sell" thread..

Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately

[MikeisNissan]

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by MikeisNissan

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

How about I let you have top mount and time to see how long it takes you to pull off a submision?

[MikeisNissan]

Hahaha sounds good, but in all seriousness your grammar is on point to me!

[MikeisNissan]

Hey cool 2000^

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Is that "transitive" vs. "intransitive"?

How do you conjugate "lay" then?



Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately

yes

so for example. I lay my papers on my desk in the evening before I retire.

I laid a hot chick last night. LOL

I will be trying to lay this girl tonite.

I just got laid.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Absolutely not! I would think that a major news source like CNN would have impeccable grammar.

I really don't know what the difference is, unfortunately

Well then ignore my post about the CNN thing.. i thought they had in fact used the incorrect word. i dunno.. maybe i need to go back to sleep.

[DOOK]

Originally Posted by MikeisNissan

You want to grapple with me one day g6civcx?

how big are you and what do you study? I may wanna take you up on this offer sometime... always looking to up my game.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

yes

so for example. I lay my papers on my desk in the evening before I retire.

I laid a hot chick last night. LOL

I will be trying to lay this girl tonite.

I just got laid.

"The building lay in ruins" or "the building lays in ruins"?

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Well then ignore my post about the CNN thing.. i thought they had in fact used the incorrect word. i dunno.. maybe i need to go back to sleep.

Do you need to lie/lay down?

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by DOOK

how big are you and what do you study? I may wanna take you up on this offer sometime... always looking to up my game.

If you all want to train then just train. Why does it matter how big he is?

It's good to train with big guys. They build your strength and technique.

[MikeisNissan]

Hahah where are you on the planet? I am 5'11" 160lbs (but can transition in weight easily) I really try to study most of martial arts .. but I would sum myself up in boxing/muaythai/karate/judo/bjj?

[DOOK]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

"The building lay in ruins" or "the building lays in ruins"?

I think it would be... the building LAYS in ruins, for a singular building... the buildings lay in ruins, for plural.... maybe

[MikeisNissan]

Yeah size don't matter for me, I would fight anyone, shit I would fight a bear if my life depended on it.

[DOOK]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

If you all want to train then just train. Why does it matter how big he is?

It's good to train with big guys. They build your strength and technique.

I agree, to a certain extent... you won't see me step into the arena with a Brock Lesner sized guy though, unless that arena is at work where I am forced to and in that case, I'm taking limbs out.

Originally Posted by MikeisNissan

Hahah where are you on the planet? I am 5'11" 160lbs (but can transition in weight easily) I really try to study most of martial arts .. but I would sum myself up in boxing/muaythai/karate/judo/bjj?

you're just a tad smaller than I am... BJJ/CIDS here... (CIDS=corrections integrated defense systems... basically just hurting people and taking away the desire to continue)

I have some experience with muaythai and have put a proposition in to get it added to our self defense regiment, but it has gone unanswered as of now. We shall see.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by DOOK

I agree, to a certain extent... you won't see me step into the arena with a Brock Lesner sized guy though, unless that arena is at work where I am forced to and in that case, I'm taking limbs out.

Um, are you guys training or are you guys competing?


For competition I definitely agree with weight limits, but for training, I don't understand why anyone would not want to train with people who are bigger/faster/stronger.

I routinely get tossed around by huge guys in training and I thank them for it. When I see a guy my weight, I know I'm pretty much going to dominate him unless he's some sort of super freak with retard strength.

[MikeisNissan]

My goal is to fight pro when I'm around 25..

[DOOK]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

Um, are you guys training or are you guys competing?


For competition I definitely agree with weight limits, but for training, I don't understand why anyone would not want to train with people who are bigger/faster/stronger.

I routinely get tossed around by huge guys in training and I thank them for it. When I see a guy my weight, I know I'm pretty much going to dominate him unless he's some sort of super freak with retard strength.

training... only time I'm competing (personally speaking) is if I get into it with an inmate, in which case, size has no restrictions, but then again, I also have no rules. What I am saying is that I'm conditioned that when I have a desparity in size, rules need not apply, I hurt people... just the way it is. I have had times in my job experience where deadly force has been authorized, that's just the nature of the beast. When we do have the time to "train" with one another, we generally match up with whoever we want, and generally I match up with another Special Ops guy or two of our CIDS instructors, who are both slightly larger than I am.

[DOOK]

ok, that sounded bad... we do have rules, we go by the 1 up theory. Anything my attacker does, I can take one step further up the force continuum. Basically you can see very quickly how once it comes to blows, all bets are off and the paperwork after everything is said and done is about the only restriction.