I need expert dog advice.

[Rag]

This is truly an off topic discussion, do here goes;

I'm nearing desperation and currently i am searching the web in search of answers, in addition to this thread.

I have two female German shepherd dogs of 2 and 3 years of age.

Until today they have also worked things out between them, including food, sleep areas, water sources and toys. Both are extremely smart, healthy and immensely strong.

A fight broke out around 4pm today, I'm not talking about a growl and nip either. I was not home for the first confrontation, my brother and mother literally had to pry them apart and separate them until i arrived at home.

We observed their behavior for a couple hours and gave it one more chance. All was well for about 30 minutes, then out of the blue the obvious the signs appeared. Stiff necks, strong stares into the eyes, straight tails and a pause in movement from both dogs. Before i could create a distraction i was prying one off.

I proceeded to lead the dog into another room, sprinkle some water on the dog, followed by stern "no"s.

enough chitchat, Is there anyone out there that i can chat with that has any words of advice or better yet, professional experience.

I am well aware dogs fight for rank, but i do not want to find out the hard way that this was not a "fight for rank"

thanks!

[P_856]

you should sign up and post this on tristatetuners theres alot of dog lovers on the site and a few experts too and seeing as you live in the tri state too

[HyperTek]

from what i learned from a video, dogs are "live for the momment".. meaning if they did something bad, and you try to discipline them a while after it happened, they will not know what you are disciplining them for. They wont remember what they did a while ago, but they can learn not to behave that way.

Maybe there was something introduced into the environment that ticked them off? One might be showing dominance over the other and the other one doesnt like it. etc..

I dunno man, I bet Ceasar Millan would know, hes the dog whisperer lol
Welcome to Cesar Millan's Official Web Site

http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/tips/i...aggression.php

[DreamN]

dogforums.com

Post your question this. I've gotten some great advice from many folks on there. Many people on there are GSD owners and have trained them for years.

[keistyle]

you have to be the pack leader.
you must have put them into a calm submissive state, then take them for a walk, and correct them as soon as the make a mistake with a 'tsst!' or something like that.
done.

[CrimsonRockett]

Two Vick jokes...

Guy asked for real advice.

Not just another worthless post.

[Matej]

Haha, everybody is a serious cat when it comes to pets.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

ok. dog expert here. I officially am a licensed breeder and licensed for a kennel.
Now, the first thing you have to do is find out who the aggressor is and find what they do prior to the attacks (ie ears pinned back, front paw around the top of the neck, ect). Stop the fight before it happens but don't pull them away because they'll do nothing but tug and want to fight more. If a fight occurs bust out the hose and drench them both, but only while they're fighting so they could associate fighting and getting wet. If that doesn't work bang two poles together so the noise scares them and they'll stop.
My guess is that they're both fixed. Sometimes when they're fixed it'll take a few years for their natural hormones to be released. My bulldogs just recently started fighting too but if you nip it in the butt as soon as the fight starts you could end it quickly because they already know the water is coming and they back away. Pretty soon they'll stop fighting all toghether. Remember, dogs are naturally wild and in some dogs that instinct to fight for food or attention hasn't been bred out of them. You have to teach that to them.

[Rag]

Originally Posted by DreamN

dogforums.com

Post your question this. I've gotten some great advice from many folks on there. Many people on there are GSD owners and have trained them for years.

I registered and have been searching for about two hours, bookmarked many links and threads. MANY thanks!

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Two Vick jokes...

Guy asked for real advice.

Not just another worthless post.

It's okay, I have thick skin and some people just can't help it . I literally threw a thread on every forum I am registered to. So it's only natural i will receive useless posts here and there.

Originally Posted by Matej

Haha, everybody is a serious cat when it comes to pets.

Dog are serious business

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

ok. dog expert here. I officially am a licensed breeder and licensed for a kennel.
Now, the first thing you have to do is find out who the aggressor is and find what they do prior to the attacks (ie ears pinned back, front paw around the top of the neck, ect). Stop the fight before it happens but don't pull them away because they'll do nothing but tug and want to fight more. If a fight occurs bust out the hose and drench them both, but only while they're fighting so they could associate fighting and getting wet. If that doesn't work bang two poles together so the noise scares them and they'll stop.
My guess is that they're both fixed. Sometimes when they're fixed it'll take a few years for their natural hormones to be released. My bulldogs just recently started fighting too but if you nip it in the butt as soon as the fight starts you could end it quickly because they already know the water is coming and they back away. Pretty soon they'll stop fighting all toghether. Remember, dogs are naturally wild and in some dogs that instinct to fight for food or attention hasn't been bred out of them. You have to teach that to them.

It has been hard figuring the aggressor in my case, I was suggested to muzzle both and observe. It is quite obvious there is no attacker nor a victim here. Dropping pots and pans did not phase them, neither did getting hosed, and my air horn did nothing but give me a gnarly headache.

Both are not fixed, based on my research i will begin calling tomorrow to schedule appointments for both. Upon further inspection they both have puncture wounds penetrating through the scruff and tough skin, one has a slightly torn ear but nothing to panic about.

Both have been patched up and separated.

[onepuff]

Are they getting plenty of exercise?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by Rag

It has been hard figuring the aggressor in my case, I was suggested to muzzle both and observe. It is quite obvious there is no attacker nor a victim here. Dropping pots and pans did not phase them, neither did getting hosed, and my air horn did nothing but give me a gnarly headache.

Both are not fixed, based on my research i will begin calling tomorrow to schedule appointments for both. Upon further inspection they both have puncture wounds penetrating through the scruff and tough skin, one has a slightly torn ear but nothing to panic about.

Both have been patched up and separated.

ok. well I think you've answered the question. get both dogs fixed and the fighting will stop. Since they're so close then my guess is that they'll both be getting their periods very very soon and probably within a week of eachother. Dogs tend to do that when they live with eachother. Not sure why but it happens. They're just getting their hormones early. But it's best to wait till after their cycle to get them fixed.

[gotta240]

I would be carefull with them around the kids. Obviously SOMETHING is getting them upset and they are in "fight mode." Just make sure a kid doesn't get bit becuase the dogs are "on edge" at the moment.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by gotta240

I would be carefull with them around the kids. Obviously SOMETHING is getting them upset and they are in "fight mode." Just make sure a kid doesn't get bit becuase the dogs are "on edge" at the moment.

It's a dominance thing towards each other. Unless they've shown aggression towards humans then there really shouldn't be anything to worried about.

[Zero_SX]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Two Vick jokes...

Guy asked for real advice.

Not just another worthless post.

totally reminded me of this...



nice dogs, though. hopefully getting them fixed works out.
I would think its pretty weird for two females to be going at it like that...
I've never had any dogs before, learning a bit right now.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by Zero_SX

totally reminded me of this...



nice dogs, though. hopefully getting them fixed works out.
I would think its pretty weird for two females to be going at it like that...
I've never had any dogs before, learning a bit right now.

well, just like in humans, females are bitches and the male rules the playground.

btw, that pic is hilarious. I hope he got raped by a thousand dicks in prison.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

Ceasar Millan

This guy rules.

Always in control.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

This guy rules.

Always in control.

he also trained the SHIT out of Cartman



Dominance

[Rag]

I met up with the behaviorist this morning. The majority of the talk was about us, the family, and how we operate every day. Then we headed to my house to meet the trouble makers. The larger of the two (Maggie) was upstairs with us when he showed up and as usual stood between the family and the "intruder" while she let out a couple barks. Once Maggie calmed herself (usually takes about a minute) the behaviorist attempted to do some obedience exercises, which failed. Then we copied the exercises and succeeded in most commands.

We talked for about another hour. Their suggestions were the following:

-remove food bowls at all times and try either the morning and night feeding times or just the night feeding.
-consider spaying both dogs
-torso body harness on both dogs
-rotate the dogs in separation for now
-take all toys away
-wash all beds in the same washer twice, add salt into the mixture on 2nd wash. then place beds in different spots
-fill atomizer with salt, liquid cayenne and water. keep at arms reach.
-when signs of defense/aggression are displayed pull the dog away and pin it to the ground with body weight. keep it subdued for at least a minute.
-and if possibly keep stungun handy at all times. apparently dogs cannot stand the frequencies given off by a stungun being powered on. not to directly use on the dogs.
-do not be afraid to get physical with dogs, stay away from the teeth at all costs

He will be stopping by again on sunday if we do not call him sooner.

[!Zar!]

Eat one of the dogs.

That will show the other one you don't play.

[DreamN]

dude... that shit ain't right.

[blueshark123]

Originally Posted by Rag

I met up with the behaviorist this morning. The majority of the talk was about us, the family, and how we operate every day. Then we headed to my house to meet the trouble makers. The larger of the two (Maggie) was upstairs with us when he showed up and as usual stood between the family and the "intruder" while she let out a couple barks. Once Maggie calmed herself (usually takes about a minute) the behaviorist attempted to do some obedience exercises, which failed. Then we copied the exercises and succeeded in most commands.

We talked for about another hour. Their suggestions were the following:

-remove food bowls at all times and try either the morning and night feeding times or just the night feeding.
-consider spaying both dogs
-torso body harness on both dogs
-rotate the dogs in separation for now
-take all toys away
-wash all beds in the same washer twice, add salt into the mixture on 2nd wash. then place beds in different spots
-fill atomizer with salt, liquid cayenne and water. keep at arms reach.
-when signs of defense/aggression are displayed pull the dog away and pin it to the ground with body weight. keep it subdued for at least a minute.
-and if possibly keep stungun handy at all times. apparently dogs cannot stand the frequencies given off by a stungun being powered on. not to directly use on the dogs.
-do not be afraid to get physical with dogs, stay away from the teeth at all costs

He will be stopping by again on sunday if we do not call him sooner.

Thats why my dog hates my stun gun lol

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by Rag

I met up with the behaviorist this morning. The majority of the talk was about us, the family, and how we operate every day. Then we headed to my house to meet the trouble makers. The larger of the two (Maggie) was upstairs with us when he showed up and as usual stood between the family and the "intruder" while she let out a couple barks. Once Maggie calmed herself (usually takes about a minute) the behaviorist attempted to do some obedience exercises, which failed. Then we copied the exercises and succeeded in most commands.

We talked for about another hour. Their suggestions were the following:

-remove food bowls at all times and try either the morning and night feeding times or just the night feeding.
-consider spaying both dogs
-torso body harness on both dogs
-rotate the dogs in separation for now
-take all toys away
-wash all beds in the same washer twice, add salt into the mixture on 2nd wash. then place beds in different spots
-fill atomizer with salt, liquid cayenne and water. keep at arms reach.
-when signs of defense/aggression are displayed pull the dog away and pin it to the ground with body weight. keep it subdued for at least a minute.
-and if possibly keep stungun handy at all times. apparently dogs cannot stand the frequencies given off by a stungun being powered on. not to directly use on the dogs.
-do not be afraid to get physical with dogs, stay away from the teeth at all costs

He will be stopping by again on sunday if we do not call him sooner.

I agree with everything except the torso harness. Torso harnesses promote tugging. Try walking a 120lb dog with a torso harness and you'll see. Get a collar that is 3/4 collar 1/4 choke chain. Torso harnesses are ok for dogs with injuries or breathing problems (English Bulldogs etc...). I just don't know how torso harnesses became so mainstream.

[soreballz]

Originally Posted by keistyle

you have to be the pack leader.
you must have put them into a calm submissive state, then take them for a walk, and correct them as soon as the make a mistake with a 'tsst!' or something like that.
done.

You watch The Dog Whisperer alot, don't you? lol

[TheWolf]

You must be the dominate force in the house and exert that dominance for no reasons at times but just to remind them. I've got a black lab and a german shepard and they play all the time but will almost always respond to my voice. The wife... well they kinda listen to her but that's because she doesn't get as much interaction with them. if you both work and you don't see them from morning till night you need to give them atleast a solid 30 minutes minimum of face to face attention. Play and discipline or they will bore and try and dominate the other for the limited time.