Sports car under $20,000

[VROOOM]

Terminator Cobra

[Rogue]

The e46 would be nice.. However at that price point/age a lot of things start to go wrong and or break.. ask me how I know... Also, unless you know how to do a valve adjustment on the car, inspections I and II can cost from 2k-4k.

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by Rogue

unless you know how to do a valve adjustment

Not too difficult a task *however* the next buyer is going to pass on your car when he does a background check with the dealer (and it seems like ALL M3 buyers do this). Either way, you'd be out $4,000 (from paying the dealer to do the repair, or discounting your car at sale time because it has a hole in the service history).

[vvtisupra]

S2000 AP2

Probably the funnest car out of the bunch. I know you said no convertible. But FU

[atom]

Forget NSX. I'm your height and a lot skinnier and it's tight in there. As a track car it might be OK but you said you want to DD it some times. Forget the RX7 too, same problem. Shit, RX7 might be even worse than an NSX and S2000. It's been a while since I've sat in a FD, but I remember it being super cramped.

I'd pick M3. Or even a Z4 coupe. I was looking at E86 M coupes and you can find 2 year old ones for 28-30k all day. An older regular non-M coupe might be like 20-23k maybe?

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by atom

Or even a Z4 coupe.

Man, I hated the seat positioning in the Z4. It was way too low. But then again, I'm only 5'7. You tall guys might not have that problem.

[5pecialist]

240sx /thread

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by boobs13

07-08 HR 350z

If you want csc problems
lol its funny cuz i'm actually debating this same question with my next car

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

Nice looking M3
2003 BMW 3 Series Coupe M3 2dr Cpe Coupe

Nice looking 911
99 porsche 911 61k miles worth $22k blow out for

Nice looking Z06
2002 Corvette Z06

Sadly my fav color for cars is white. Dam I want all three!
Good suggestions guys!
What car is worse on maintenance Porsche or BWM?

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by IKnowAllOfNothing

What car is worse on maintenance Porsche or BWM?

I've owned both so first hand experience here.

They're about the same. Porsche parts cost slightly more. Here's a quick rundown about some maintenance.

Build dates. Parts are queer and manytimes are peculiar to build dates. Like. A car was made between 97 and 2003. Sensor A works for all 3/98 and lower. Sensor B works for 4/98 to 5/00. Sensor C works from 5/00 to late. Now it's the same sensor but something like the plug, the thread pitch, or something queer will be different about it. Pay close attention before you order. Speaking of order. You will have to order every part for these cars. You've got a better chance of finding a caddilac at the bottom of a cracker jack box then finding a upper radiator hose in stock at the local napa. You'll also want to order everything because the dealers only objective is to rape you to death. Mountain of dicks style. I'll use my example of an upper radiator hose. From several BMW parts houses, bav auto etc. That hose prices at $17-$19. Not bad. At the dealer it's $64!! Same part, brand etc. AC compressors. I got one for my z28 camaro for $195 new. Not bad. I got a smoking deal on the one for my 540i at $355. Normally $449. Dealer price $1043 Seriously.

Both the porsche and the bmw have serious factory work manuals where they will show you everything step by step with illustrations about what needs to be done to do something like change a clutch. They make it so a monkey could do the job. They are extremely helpfull. Usually many forums will have bootleg copies floating around. Get them. They are an absolute must.

For instance a GM manual will say step 3 "Remove Transmission bellhousing bolts"
The bmw manual will show you an illustration of the bellhousing, showing the location of all bolts and say "Removed 10 T-10 Bellhousing bolts and 2 T-8 Bellhousing bolts located on diagram above"

So now you know what socket to carry under the car with you and how many there are so you don't miss one. Saves alot of aggervation. Speaking of aggervating bmw and porsche like to use torx. They feel it's better than hex sockets. Buy you some quality torx sockets. They also like special tools. Don't be surprised if like your transmission drain plug uses some kind of super queer socket. Like this.

Germans love special tools. So when preparing to do a job on the car read the manual on it first. Locate any special tools, then do the job.

other things that you will find that are ridiculous. Brake pad wear sensors. Yes the brake pads have a sacrificial sensor in each wheel that eventually grinds through so your instrument cluster can tell you your brake pads are to thin. Handy yes. Instock. No. $30 a wheel. Yes. $80 each at the dealer Yes. So something like changing out pads and rotors can be a $2-3k event at the dealer.
Hrm What else. BMW Vanos. Your m3 will have two of these units. Surprise they start to rattle and die. BMW cheaped out and put crappy o-rings in them. You'll need to take the motor apart and install new seals in them. Besian Seals. The seals are $60 So it's not bad but it's the $400 special tool you need to do it.

While your at it. Do a valve adjustment. You'll need it. Germans find no problem with taking the motor partially apart and making adjustments for wear to keep it in tip top shape. While intimidating to green mechanics, the manual tells you every step. Every torque etc.

Infact if your looking at either of these cars, budget the cost of a clutch, ac compressor, a radiator, all new hoses, two window regulators, and one ABS sensor. All of that will come due in maintenance in the next 30k. Price it out.

Another plus is there are tons of forums where people actually work on their cars and tons of FAQ's etc. It's not like zilvia where 70% of posts are "My sr swap won't start" "What turbo is good for 400hp" and the personal favorite "how can I fix my $300+ problem with duct tape, zipties, chewing gum and $40?"

So unless you have gobs of money, or don't mind turning your own wrenches, don't buy one of these. They will eat you alive. They are astonishingly well built cars and you could drive one into the ground. Everything is quite accessible and there is a procedure for everything. Germans love procedures. Ordnungspflicht is present in all their designs. Rough translation, Everything has it's place and there's a place for everything. It's a societal virtue.

Other things off the top of my head. Both cars take different amounts of oil. Like my 540i takes 9 quarts. I remember my 911 taking the same. 911s take a clutch about every 60-70k. They also had rear main seal leaking issues. Some porsches also had a intermediate shaft inside the motor that would spaz out and detonate the whole thing. Um.. oh yeah changing spark plugs on a 911 is fun. Don't plan anything else for the day when you start that. Small hands are better with 911's. Once you get to know either car and you maintain it, you'll enjoy the car. Get a feel for it. etc.

If you're financing one of these cars you're an idiot. Financing a used sports car is right up there mortgage backed securities in terms of good idea. I've seen friends do it. Don't do it. You end up with sky high payments and sky high repair bills. They won't run the 5 years the payments do. Not without some cost.

[5pecialist]

Don't forget to add that the M3 requires magical oil from the motherland, at $10 a quart.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

Don't forget to add that the M3 requires magical oil from the motherland, at $10 a quart.

There are other oils that work.. but yes 10w-60 isn't going to be at your local store. The issue when those motors all spun rod bearings was defective bearing shells. Not thin oil as previously thought. mobil 1 says 0w-40 will work. 5w-40 will work as well. And yes no oil filters will be in stock either. Order those as well.

[DenkiMan!]

european cars are quite the complexity lol

[240sx123$]

TheWolf just killed my dream of owning an M3 anytime soon.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by DenkiMan!

european cars are quite the complexity lol

This is mostly porsche/bmw.. If you study germany you'll see regional differences between manufacturers and how it corresponds to their differences in the culture. bmw from the south. MB/porsche central. Audi in the chech west under VW from the north. Appreciation for an automobile is different than state side. If your car was dirty in germany. Someone may come by and write "I hope the owner will take better care of this car in the future" in the dust. Not to be an asshole but because they find a dirty automobile disrespectful. The farther north you get, the less "friendly" they are. Quite humorous. Nothing is complex about either car as I've said the manuals help sort out everything. Even how to rebuild the engine. If you look at all the stuff that people fix on their S13/S14 it's really not alot more complex. It's just a different way of approaching the problem. Sometimes they put to much effort into fixing things that don't exist. Neither has a cupholder worth a shit either.

[240sx123$]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

This is mostly porsche/bmw.. If you study germany you'll see regional differences between manufacturers and how it corresponds to their differences in the culture. bmw from the south. MB/porsche central. Audi in the chech west under VW from the north. Appreciation for an automobile is different than state side. If your car was dirty in germany. Someone may come by and write "I hope the owner will take better care of this car in the future" in the dust. Not to be an asshole but because they find a dirty automobile disrespectful. The farther north you get, the less "friendly" they are. Quite humorous. Nothing is complex about either car as I've said the manuals help sort out everything. Even how to rebuild the engine. If you look at all the stuff that people fix on their S13/S14 it's really not alot more complex. It's just a different way of approaching the problem. Sometimes they put to much effort into fixing things that don't exist. Neither has a cupholder worth a shit either.

In Germany, your car wont pass inspection if it has any body damage! All of the cars on the road arent perfect, but overall.. it makes the US look like a trailer park. I was shocked to see how well kept their cars are, and their roads are.

[lucky7]

i will have an E30 M3, an E46 M3 and a 964 carrera 2 eventually. i can't think of any other cars i really want more. i think it's well worth the cost of ownership.

with 20k though, you could buy 20 E30's.

[TravisSW]

Little side note with the Porsche's.

When somebody says "what do you drive?" and you reply with "Porsche," people always get weird look on their face.

Even funnier for me because I'm 26, granted I'm driving a 1986 944T.

[mademedoit]

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass. If I were you I'd save a little money and get the regular vette, its about 150lbs heaver because it has a steel frame but I'd rather have the removable top.


The 20k porsche is cool because other than the headlights it looks just like the new 80k one. Not being able to see the engine though.... sucks, I would'nt recomend a porsche unless you have a lift in your garage! TheWolf is right about euro cars and thier special tools I bought a cheap Saab 9-5 for a daily driver and had to go to sears to get a reverse tork set (local auto parts stores/home depot/walmart only carry standard torx). The 9-5 has a 4 cam turbo v6 and to change the timming belt your suppost to buy two small plastic keyways to lock the cams. They come in a special $150 kit.! I got around buying this piece of plastic with cardboard and zipties wedged between the cams. Yes I am that ghetto.

[T-FAST]

Originally Posted by atom

Forget NSX. I'm your height and a lot skinnier and it's tight in there. As a track car it might be OK but you said you want to DD it some times. Forget the RX7 too, same problem. Shit, RX7 might be even worse than an NSX and S2000. It's been a while since I've sat in a FD, but I remember it being super cramped.

I'd pick M3. Or even a Z4 coupe. I was looking at E86 M coupes and you can find 2 year old ones for 28-30k all day. An older regular non-M coupe might be like 20-23k maybe?

NSX isn't bad at all! I'm 6'4" and I fit into a first gen NSX perfectly! It's a little crammped regarding headroom but my head doesn't touch the roof and the legroom is great. S2000 doesn't work for me I sit way too high and the steering wheel is in my crotch. I have also been in a Rx7 and it was tight but not s2000 tight, I was pretty comfortable. Hope this helps!

[PhoPoweR]

Best bang for the buck car is an Evo even though its a 4 door

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by mademedoit

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass. If I were you I'd save a little money and get the regular vette, its about 150lbs heaver because it has a steel frame but I'd rather have the removable top.

As great as the C5 was, I can't get past the looks. The C6 just looks sooooooo much better. Its the only Vette I'd want other than a C3...

[atom]

Agreed. C5's are just so blah compared to C6.

Same goes for Porsche. 996's are the worst. 964/993/997 are all so much better looking. Theres this one guy in my neighborhood that has a blue 993 Carrera S and it's totally the jam.

[240sx123$]

How about an Ariel Atom?

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by simmode1

As great as the C5 was, I can't get past the looks. The C6 just looks sooooooo much better. Its the only Vette I'd want other than a C3...

For me, it's the opposite.
Never could get past the looks of those C6 headlights.
Then, again I can't understand anyone getting a vette for looks

Also, good luck with getting a decent C6 under 20k.

Now if you have around 35k to blow (70k new?),
that would fetch you a great lower mileage C6 Zo6.

[IKnowAllOfNothing]

Thanks everyone for all the really helpful info.
To bad the m3 didn't come stock with the ls2...Then my decision would have been a whole lot easier.
I'm still on the fence...dam

[axiomatik]

Originally Posted by mademedoit

I'm not a GM fan but the corvette, leaf springs aside is realy an amazing technical achievement. No other car has over 400 hp and can get 30mpg, also the heads up display is bad ass.

It doesn't have "leaf springs", in the sense that a truck has leaf springs. It uses a transverse, composite leaf spring with double A-arms. It works just like the coil springs in the back of the 240, but is lighter and provides tighter packaging.

[boobs13]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

If you want csc problems
lol its funny cuz i'm actually debating this same question with my next car

Your still gonna miss your Z after you sell it man lol?

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

what about this guy?

Maserati : Coupe: eBay Motors (item 280549273208 end time Aug-22-10 11:34:51 PDT)

[mademedoit]

The corvettes have good stock suspension but the racing one's ditch the leaf springs and get coilovers like on most high performance cars.