NA KA questions

[nate1]

not all motors are made the same the ka sucks na i have a 12.5 comp with about every bolt on possible and its still slow lol ill post my dyno chart when i get some nice pics of my car taken. but in the mean time heres some great web sites to look at. o and the hot cam swap isnt really worth the time to do. get these cams they got dyno charts if u look down on the page
PDM Racing - Cam Corner
heres some dyno charts
KA24DEvelopment.com :: 240SX Dyno Charts

[I'm Redline]

Dang, not bad, a nominal 185hp at the crank on those charts. Remember adding 22% for parasitic loss from the crank. All bolt on parts and moving from just under 140hp at the wheels to over 150hp which is an at the crank addition of 30hp across. Considering the light weight of the car, that is some sweet performance!

[Prophet513]

you guys HAVE to be missing the original link I posted.

don't forget what a good TUNE can do for the ka either!

[I'm Redline]

Bolt on will get you only so far. Tuning will get you further, but the place where a motor really comes together is when it's built. Port matching the intake and exhaust gaskets for greater flow, and matching any surface where air flows gains those extra few hp.

Prophet, what are the best tuning set ups for these little hot rods?

[Prophet513]

I honestly couldn't tell you. Tuning and ecu's are way over my head

The thing is I know it's one of the best ways to get more out of the KA. Pushing the red line back, removing the top speed governor and getting more power out of your bolt ons too.

[nate1]

for an FR its normally 15% drive train loss, 25% is normal for 4WD.
that chart shows intake, pulley, header, exhaust, cams, and, tuning still only made 163. port matching wont get u 20 whp, these motors just dont make much power, its to big for its own good it cant rev. s13s go faster short shifting at 6k as apposed to its 7k redline with stock cams

[SoBay240guy]

Every one back way up,

a couple of things here

1. Big Vinnie is all over the web with years and years worth of half truths misunderstandings and general hot air....he once suggested using diesel fuel as a gas additive to increase cetane levels....serious WTF territory.

2. I AM Redline has less of an idea than vinnie...all his research says there is stock 264 cams...i wanna strangle this guy his research obviously didn't include anything from nissan, or anyone that knows what a KA is.

This whole thread looks like grown men sitting in the front yard swimming pool, thinking they are in a penthouse suite hot tub with strippers.

I just read 3 pages of the deepest stupidest ignorance I have ever seen...please disregard all the statements made in this thread, really it isn't worth trying to sort the pepper from the flyshit there is just too much bad info and links to worse....

this shit angers me, stupid people spreading stupid all over with no idea of what they are talking about.

[Hywarp161]

^^^ lol i just laughed my ass off. i was reading through all this and couldnt help but feel the same way.

[tapdeznutz]

Originally Posted by Hywarp161

^^^ lol i just laughed my ass off. i was reading through all this and couldnt help but feel the same way.

im with you. but do enlighten us please...i need to get up and get another beer

[I'm Redline]

Originally Posted by SoBay240guy

Every one back way up,

a couple of things here

1. Big Vinnie is all over the web with years and years worth of half truths misunderstandings and general hot air....he once suggested using diesel fuel as a gas additive to increase cetane levels....serious WTF territory.

2. I AM Redline has less of an idea than vinnie...all his research says there is stock 264 cams...i wanna strangle this guy his research obviously didn't include anything from nissan, or anyone that knows what a KA is.

This whole thread looks like grown men sitting in the front yard swimming pool, thinking they are in a penthouse suite hot tub with strippers.

I just read 3 pages of the deepest stupidest ignorance I have ever seen...please disregard all the statements made in this thread, really it isn't worth trying to sort the pepper from the flyshit there is just too much bad info and links to worse....

this shit angers me, stupid people spreading stupid all over with no idea of what they are talking about.

Please do your emminence, enlighten us unwashed undereducated! Stock cams are 256 from what the cam grinders offer, not 264. 264 was the first step up that I saw, and 270+ the tops, unlike a 311 for a V8(using advertised duration vs @ .050)

ps, not my fault there is internet sludge that states untruths on the KA subject, and I haven't seen a book titled,"How to Build a Kick Ass NA KA" on the Amazon racks either, so with that said sir, please bring the knowledge since you are calling and waving your bullshit flag

[Prophet513]

Yeah how the hell am i supposed to know its BS?

I have a ka, can't afford an sr20 swap and would rather not go ka-t right now so i'm thinking of taking this method.

Please feel free to prove as much as you can wrong

[ManoNegra]

"Do not argue with a moron, he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience".

this thread is beyond help

[tapdeznutz]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

"Do not argue with a moron, he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience".

this thread is beyond help

this is what started my day!!!!! couldn't stop laughing for like 10mins

[Prophet513]

What I also wanna know is why so many people are on vinnie's side in the thread I shared yet you come here with just about as many posts as I do and I'm supposed to believe everything you say? And you're just right about everything like everyone else no matter what with no proof of your own?

A lot of people on this forum seem to think they're a God or something. I'm not here for your "truths" or opinions I'm here to get info that will help me and by not contributing to the actual conversation of the Naturally Aspirated KA24 then you aren't doing anything but making the thread more "shitty".

So if you DO have things to post and HELP us, (which is what the forums are for) then feel free to post your knowledge on the subject of the thread. If not, feel free to flame somebody else's thread and let us be "stupid" with our own money and cars. Proof helps.

And it takes a moron to let another moron bring him down to their level.

[SoBay240guy]

Originally Posted by I'm Redline

Please do your emminence, enlighten us unwashed undereducated! Stock cams are 256 from what the cam grinders offer, not 264. 264 was the first step up that I saw, and 270+ the tops, unlike a 311 for a V8(using advertised duration vs @ .050)

ps, not my fault there is internet sludge that states untruths on the KA subject, and I haven't seen a book titled,"How to Build a Kick Ass NA KA" on the Amazon racks either, so with that said sir, please bring the knowledge since you are calling and waving your bullshit flag

if you want to know how to build a BETTER KA, start with the book for building a stock KA, the FSM, readily available in .pdf all over the interwebs.

If you had (or could use one) you would have a real source of stock cam duration, EM-47 in the FSM (YMMV depending on year) states 248/240 duration,

I have built a KA or two in my day, I threw a headgasket and ka24E pistons at a ka24DE and made ~155 WHP with 2x248 cams and 10.7:1 compression (don't believe anything check everything yourself, internets were dead wrong on what compression ration this combo nets, i used a 1.3mm Cometic custom ordered to make it pump gas friendly)

now I guess since I dyno my own cars and have access to all that i need I could just make a dyno sheet up to show ~200 BHP, but then I'd be like everyone else that gets frustrated and resorts to BSing the forum trolls and saying my KA has the secret magic combo that makes all other KA tuners look like morons...

KA's are fun and simple to build it is a great first engine to play around inside, but the worst thing you can do is tell yourself there's 200 easy hp in the motor,

get a spare, get a FSM, get a cheap E-bay rebuild kit (comes with King bearings and Nippon rings, and pistons I swear had to come off nissan retired tooling) you can either shave the head a bit to raise compression or you can get the ka24E pistons if you have a way of CC'ing everything and sorting out the compression ratio (see above about checking everything yourself) either way you'll need JWT cam gears to sort out the timing as changing the centerline of the cams will advance or retard the timing.

But be realistic nissan didn't leave 60 HP in the gasket match or port design

[jspeedm]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

If you want power, go turbo or swap. If you want NA KA, don't expect much.
It has been beeten to death, to make sr power on a reliable na ka, you will spend upwards of 5k. I run injen intake, Greddy headers, flowmaster cat, custom 2.5 exhaust, nismo flywheel and I make 156hp and 164tq to the wheels. a tune might gain another few hp, but not worth the money. I understand the ka and accept the fact that it has na limitations. so should all of you.

[jspeedm]

and who said the parasitic loss is 22%? It varies from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage.

[datsunnazi]

Subbed for fun

[I'm Redline]

I don't argue with anyone who knows their stuff and as such, concede any disinformation I got from the 'net trying to find out what's what for my Zenki NA KA...going offline with the expert

[Prophet513]

Yeah all of my web research has pointed me in the same direction so that's when I started this thread to clarify and here it is now more than a week after it was started and it's just now coming around that some people are puttin out bullshit.

my plan (with some stupid details) is/was as followed:
seafoam for first time ever, and then
4-2-1 headers
2.5" exhaust
high flow cat
aluminum crank pulley
93 octane
rs enthalpy tune
open intake filter
maybe eliminate scv's
a/c delete
better spark plugs/wires

is it nearly worth the money?

i feel like ka-t could be worth the money if i find parts for the right price but the putting it all together and trouble shooting would put it maybe a little higher than i want to spend right now on my car without the possibility of selling my celica - then comes the 160k mile KA-t reliability question - and thats before wheels/suspension and other minor bullshit and everything else in between

you guys tell me

[tapdeznutz]

bro i was and still am kinda gathering 2nd hand parts for my ka-t as well but stopped for now and decided to just go n/a and see if bolt on's will keep me happy. i mean adding intake/headers/exhaust combo really opens the mid and top end a bit. no real dyno figures just the butt dyno tells me it has balls from 3500 to 5500 now instead of falling flat on its face at 4500rpm. i am excited to get my alum no name crank pulley installed to see how it performs as well...then lightweight flywheel...then lightweight driveshaft...then cam...u get the idea.

but to answer your question i say its worth it for the simple fact that it should not alter reliability versus turbo it brings in more maintenance issues etc. just my thoughts

[jamg]

so to even get around 180whp on a NA KA, exactly what would i have to do?
i would be happy with that much power right now.

[Prophet513]

Originally Posted by tapdeznutz

but to answer your question i say its worth it for the simple fact that it should not alter reliability versus turbo it brings in more maintenance issues etc. just my thoughts

yeah this is one thing i always thought about in NA. although that was back when I thought more power was a little easier to obtain...

my KA-t goals were pretty simple but it's still in the air i guess

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by jspeedm

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

If you want power, go turbo or swap. If you want NA KA, don't expect much.
It has been beeten to death, to make sr power on a reliable na ka, you will spend upwards of 5k. I run injen intake, Greddy headers, flowmaster cat, custom 2.5 exhaust, nismo flywheel and I make 156hp and 164tq to the wheels. a tune might gain another few hp, but not worth the money. I understand the ka and accept the fact that it has na limitations. so should all of you.

speaks the truth
also from the NA KA stickyk, the motor Sogay240 was referring to:

This is my friends set-up:
SOHC pistons
Cometic HG for 10.7:1 compression
248/248 Intake/Exhaust cams
Head port and polished with stock intake and z32 Ferrera valves (about 2mm bigger than stock)
both the block and head were deburred to remove hot spots
clevite rod cap bearings with ARP hardware
new OEM waterpump and oil pump gear
EGR capped
Swirl Control removed
Coolant to TB capped
RSR 3" Catback
New O2 and Temperature sensors
everything else stock, auto ECU

motor has excellent throttle response and is a blast to drive.
we took it to the dyno last night and frankly were a little disappointed
car feels faster than what the numbers state
we are, however, pleased with the shape of the powerband curve



Nistune and an ITB setup is in the works
also planned for the future when money and time allows are:
exhaust manifold
fuling
bigger MAF
bigger throttle body
bigger cams

the car is running too rich at the moment and we feel that just a good tune
alone would net us some more power.

and Edgar's personal experience:

Mods:
K&N Drop in filter
248/248 cams
DC Sports S13 Header
Gutted cat (dumb, I know)
RSR Ex-Mag (3" piping)
Base Timing advanced 5 degrees
Auto ECU
RPS 6 Puck
Fidanza 14lbs Flywheel


~154 whp
~152 ft-lbs
Lemme tell you, this motor was a blast to drive.

Originally Posted by Prophet513

Yeah all of my web research has pointed me in the same direction so that's when I started this thread to clarify and here it is now more than a week after it was started and it's just now coming around that some people are puttin out bullshit.

my plan (with some stupid details) is/was as followed:
seafoam for first time ever, and then
4-2-1 headers
2.5" exhaust
high flow cat
aluminum crank pulley - waste of money
93 octane
rs enthalpy tune - I'd go Nistune, you can alsways go KA-T with later
open intake filter
maybe eliminate scv's
a/c delete
better spark plugs/wires

is it nearly worth the money? - that's a question of opinion. ultimately we're modifying cars and most normal people would say it's a waste of money...

i feel like ka-t could be worth the money if i find parts for the right price but the putting it all together and trouble shooting would put it maybe a little higher than i want to spend right now on my car without the possibility of selling my celica - then comes the 160k mile KA-t reliability question - and thats before wheels/suspension and other minor bullshit and everything else in between

you guys tell me

do the basic stuff that will awake the KA and make it more fun and that you can translate over to a turbo build:

248 cams
SR injectors
Nistune
4.36 final drive
~11 - 15 lbs flywheel
obtain a spare KA to rebuild at leisure, it will build character
and most important, don't take anything anyone (including me) says on the internet as fact
do your own leg work, come to your own conclusions

Originally Posted by jamg

so to even get around 180whp on a NA KA, exactly what would i have to do?
i would be happy with that much power right now.

read this thread:
200whp NA Dyno - Nissan Road Racing Forums

[Prophet513]

Well I don't really have to worry about this anymore now. Might have a free vh45 coming my way

[wangan_cruiser]

you should say MODS PLS LOCKED.

[I'm Redline]

OK, after seeing the dyno sheets, I have a question on the cams. Wouldn't a stouter cam give better numbers? Or, are the hotter cams like the JWT 275 with higher lift and longer duration? Also, is there a reason the KA24DE doesn;t respond to dual pattern set ups, like say a 264/275 for NA?

And WANGAN,

This thread is educational for those who stay with a decent motor that when in this car has a very nice hp:weight ratio compared to a lot of other cars out there. It staright kills my old 2001 Neon ACR for hp:# and is a lot quicker AND faster on the end(140+ vs the ACR's 132)

[project-D180]

yes a "hotter" cam would/should improve the numbers but with out a proper tune to complement the parts you changed your not goin to see a major "oh sh1t moment" difference in numbers..and to also comment on if the ka like duel pattern cam set or not is yet to be seen.i believe if they made a duel pattern cams with same lift and slightly different duration it would definitly be a snappier engine response with the ka or even running like redline stated a 264/275 ,272/275 set would probaly be mean on the street..even a 248/264