match hydrolic cam on solid lifter?

[koukistylejdm]

any info my engine builder did a solid lifter setup on my sr and he put a set of brian crower stage 2 cams on it should i trust that????

thanks

[fliprayzin240sx]

As long as the lash is properly set, there should be no issue. Only thing is, why go solid lifters with stage 2 cams? Personally, only reason I would go solid lifters is because you got a set of Tomei procams 270 or 280s.

[koukistylejdm]

its a matter of reliability and the turbo is a gtx2867

[Seraphim38]

If you are going to go with a solid lifter setup, buy proper Tomei cams and be done. Tomei are half the price of HKS and there's a lot less public grumbling about quality for them. I had a set on my old motor, but my new one is running a full HKS solid lifter setup with stage 3 cams.

Not many people get legit solid lifter setups, so I am guessing you may not get a lot of feedback here.

If you are going to spin it up to where the solid lifters can go, it's also suggested that you get an ATI damper. If you are going to leave the rev limiter at 7800 or less, then ignore and move on.

[Mikester]

The cams and lifters need to be matched. The lobes are shaped differently for each type... It may behoove you to ensure those cams are compatible before running it.

[jr_ss]

Just like Mike stated above, ramp-up profiles for the cams are different between the two and solid type cams should be run with solid lifters or lash type cams with hydraulic lifters only. The solid lifter setup has a much more aggressive ramp-up profile, where the lash type have a smoother, more progressive profile.

[Seraphim38]

I should have mentioned above that the profiles are different as I knew this, but I assumed it was widely known. jr_ss and mikester have it right.

For the record, Brian Crower does not make camshafts that are designed to operate properly with a solid lifter setup

[Kingtal0n]

and furthermore did that guy just say reliability and solid lifters in the same sentence?

[Seraphim38]

So far my solid lifter motor has been really reliable and powerful, on pump gas for daily driving

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Seraphim38

So far my solid lifter motor has been really reliable and powerful, on pump gas for daily driving

oo you took the bait. hmm where to start?

Well lets start with this. To own a set of solid lifters in an sr20det means you are pushing the engine beyond 7500 rpm. Otherwise, its a waste of time.

Therefore, you have a 8000+rpm sr20det. Which is... not exactly reliable.


Oh, I can tackle this another way. But lets start with that.

[TheRealSy90]

I can't help but laugh every time people waste money on a solid lifter setup...

[Seraphim38]

I took the bait? I was attempting to help the original thread starter; I was not trying to incite some cite of silly and useless debate.

My builder has an exceptional record for the fact that none of his professionally built SRs have died, and that's under dominantly pro-am and professional formula D use. I waited for a year for him to build an engine for me, and this one is my third SR. I learned a lot via my first two SRs (1 stock implant, 1 mild build and my current engine built for 600+hp as a SEMA show motor).

Reliability has a lot to do with the tune, fuel system, ECU, redline and use. I run mine to 7800 RPM, though I am not opposed to spinning it higher. It does 460rwhp on pump gas all day long without even going past 7300, without pushing timing or AFRs, while oil and water temps never climb above nominal no matter how hard its driven.

Did I need a solid lifter setup? No. Did I need a Mazworks sleeved bottom end with real Greddy pistons and Greddy rods and thousands of dollars of machine work? No. Did I need to buy $3,600 coilovers off a Formula D car for my daily driver? No. Do I think twice about pushing the motor? Not for a second. I love it. Anyone can say that I wasted money on my drivetrain. I don't care what people think about my car, because I built it for me, not them, and it puts a smile on my face every day I drive it to work.

OK, back on topic. OP if you have any questions I am happy to help. Send me a PM if you do.

[yetijeff]

600hp sema show motor...

[jr_ss]

Seraphim, haven't you heard? If it doesn't fit into Kingalton's reliability Venn diagram, it's no good.

This guy has a hard on for not modifying motors and if you do, it's only acceptable on the 2jz's...

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Seraphim, haven't you heard? If it doesn't fit into Kingalton's reliability Venn diagram, it's no good.

This guy has a hard on for not modifying motors and if you do, it's only acceptable on the 2jz's...

whoa whoa hold on there buddy. Dont get all crazy on me. Modifications are great things when done right. I Just have a thing against throwing away cash, for getting the most out of every dollar spent on anything.

this guy....

Originally Posted by Seraphim38

Did I need a solid lifter setup? No. Did I need a Mazworks sleeved bottom end with real Greddy pistons and Greddy rods and thousands of dollars of machine work? No. Did I need to buy $3,600 coilovers off a Formula D car for my daily driver? No.

Just threw away money to feed the homeless.
it makes me sad panda

[Mikester]

Seraphim, let it roll off your back dude

I too chose solid lifters to minimize the possibility of floating a rocker and to eliminate a potential point of failure in the valvetrain. The ability to spin the motor to 8,000+ plus with my bottom/top ends built is nice in the event of the 'accidental' over-rev; but not a primary reason.

Like anything, there are different 'camps' out there. I did the research and found that the GTiR FSM (because gtir SR runs solid lifters) calls for valve shim inspection/adjustment like every 15,000-ish (maybe 30K?) miles IIRC; which I intend to adhere to... but in my case, I chose solids anyway b/c it will be 15+ years before my SR ever sees 15,000mi lol.

Back on topic- OP may very well have thrown away his money if those cams are indeed not compatible with solid lifters... so many things sound SO cool to do until the rest of the requisites for doing them 'right' come to light

[koukistylejdm]

iam not that dumbass who ordered the wrong set of cams i know about the setup and i know my sr is going to see 8500rpm so yes i feel like i need solid lifters and this 700$ extra aint a big deal for me...

i wanna know if i should tell my engine builder to do the things right

[Mikester]

Originally Posted by koukistylejdm

iam not that dumbass who ordered the wrong set of cams i know about the setup and i know my sr is going to see 8500rpm so yes i feel like i need solid lifters and this 700$ extra aint a big deal for me...

i wanna know if i should tell my engine builder to do the things right

Originally Posted by koukistylejdm

any info my engine builder did a solid lifter setup on my sr and he put a set of brian crower stage 2 cams on it should i trust that????

thanks

Are you sure? Because according to the original post above, you are NOT entirely certain about your setup... and not even sure if what your builder did is correct... THEN, instead of asking the builder mano-e-mano, you chose to ask a bunch of faceless internet junkies who know absolutley squat about the intricacies & background of your build for advice.

Dude- Builders don't just order things like cams & lifters without you, the customer, giving the green light. You need to trust your builder; and also remember that the builder is going to do what YOU tell them to do. If you don't trust your builder or have reservations about their business practices, then either take your business elsewhere or make sure you keep some cash handy for another rebuild.

[TheRealSy90]

Just FYI, hydraulic lifters with dual guides can handle 9000+ rpm...

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Mikester

Are you sure? Because according to the original post above, you are NOT entirely certain about your setup... and not even sure if what your builder did is correct...

Been trying to say this from the start. Nobody knows what is going on inside these engines and this kind of thing happens constantly. "builders" and "machine shops" doing things wrong all day long. Its very common, sorry to say it.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Just FYI, hydraulic lifters with dual guides can handle 9000+ rpm...

The issue with RPM and oil was something I originally discovered back when I was 17 years old. Using chevrolet flat tappet lifters, once the engine is to pass around 6000rpm there is not enough time for the oil to exit the lifter, it becomes an oil flow issue which has nothing to do with the integrity of the parts being used. The valve would hang open because the oil could not exit the lifter fast enough.

I am not sure what the RPM limitation is on an SR20 but I am sure there is a problem moving oil around at 9,000rpm+ so it probably is not recommended. I did however, at one point, push my built sr20det to 8,000rpm on and off a dyno around 400 RWHP several hundred times so I can vouch for 8,000 at least.

[KoukiMonsta]

Reding this makes me happy. I debated going solid for a bit, JR_SS is familiar with my recent head overhaul (not sure you are MIKESTER) after a few discussions I said eff that. I'm not gonna beat this that that hard...or?

To the OP, these 2 guys know what's up. Take the advice, double check your builder. Do all the research necessary.

Ps, greatest thing I have ever read lies below...story of my life. Haha awesome. Keep up with your builds fellas

Originally Posted by Mikester

b/c it will be 15+ years before my SR ever sees 15,000mi lol

/spam

[koukistylejdm]

ok ill explain what happened... i received that famous engine fully built wich was supposed to have a set of tomei matching cams into it.

then i swap it in my car and went to tune and drift event the next day.

so after one practice run...... that brand new engine blew ......................

so i swapped back my spare sr into the car and checked what happened with this one.

the fault is the guy who ported the intake valves in the head to far so a lifter went trough the head...

then i see Under the valve cover the cams arent tomei they are bc...

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

The issue with RPM and oil was something I originally discovered back when I was 17 years old. Using chevrolet flat tappet lifters, once the engine is to pass around 6000rpm there is not enough time for the oil to exit the lifter, it becomes an oil flow issue which has nothing to do with the integrity of the parts being used. The valve would hang open because the oil could not exit the lifter fast enough.

1: It's not a Chevy.
2: They are not flat tappet lifters.
3: It's not a Chevy.

[Mikester]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

1: It's not a Chevy.
2: They are not flat tappet lifters.
3: It's not a Chevy.

He was illustrating a point. Although there are distinct differences, the principle is the same. At high rpm, SR20 hydraulic lifters can have trouble keeping pace with the rocker arms; resulting in rocker float & potential havoc being wreaked underneath the valve cover. Hence the invention of rocker arm stoppers and/or the choice of some of us to use solid lifters. If the lifter is always in a fixed position, and the valves are properly shimmed; chances of rocker float at higher rpms are decreased significantly (at least that's the theory lol). Now- With the lifters being stationary and the valves being shimmed accordingly; the cam profile (lobe shape & rocker ratio) of a regular hydraulic cam is no longer compatible and will kill valves/stems/seals (maybe even the cams & journals???) very quickly. The inverse is also true with respect to hydraulic lifters & solid-type cams... Knowing that the cam profiles and lifter types need to be compatible, one can only be used with the other.

The big picture to this thread is that OP unfortunately made a few bad choices and is now trying to pick up the pieces and make more informed decisions about where to go from here. No need to split hairs.