200whp n/a ka?

[shinrekka]

I know its possible with out nitrous, because i have seen it done, how do you think 200hp is reached on a N/A KA? Every single person (3 people) that has dynoed over 200hp on their K/A wont tell me how they did it, they always say "my secret"

But this is how i think they did it, please fill me in on what your think i may be missing or wrong about something.

89 pistons, for high compression
Header (hot shot)
Crazy Cams (their idle is a bit rougher but there not stalling or anything)
Exhaust (2.5" is what their using, Apexi N1 exhaust)
Intake (their using the injen intake)
Lightweight flywheel (fidanza, less parasitic loss i guess?)
Lightweight driveshaft (again less parasitic loss?)
MSD ignition

One guy has a hacked MAF because he has the sensor mounted on PVC pipe that is def larger then my stock maf, so im not sure about any ECU tuning, because if you tune your ecu i would think you wouldnt need to run a hacked maf.

Now i dont know anything about head work, someone wanna explain that to me?

[Phlip]

I will explain that this has been discussed and argued about at long length before and that you can help yourself with that search button up there

[shinrekka]

i have been searching otherwise i would not of asked


Almost all posts are about how it cant be done, or cant be done for under 10grand, when clearly it can be done. Everyone just goes by what everyone else says. It can be done and i have seen it with out the use of forced induction or nitrous.

[IGSDann]

Driveshaft + Flywheel = no added power, the engine revs quicker and a 1 piece alum. driveshaft is good for tons of power but they don't give you more power. Some drag racers put heavy flywheels on in order to keep engine momentum going. But yes NAKA monsters can be made to make over 200hp. I remember someone with a Panda in their sig has a KA with ITB's and other junk, he posted in one of the big NAKA topics... Ask him Q's, but yes those upgrades listed plus ECU retune, intake is probably a custom short one (going where the battery goes). So yes you can make good power out of an NAKA is just tends to cost more money and if done improperly (see Andrew and his build up gone wrong) can blow up, turbocharging tends to cost less and work better... That's all I know really.

[North240]

to solve the problem as soon as you make 200whp on a NA KA come post, we'll all pat you on the back. That being said you will deffinitly need a ECU re-tune. Make sure you post your total cost too.

[daver903]

200whp eh. well this is what i would do:
port and polish the head, throttle body, and intake plenum
hotshot headers, 2.5-3 inch exhaust from header back, no cat, or resonator.
bigger injectors,fuel pump, fuel rail, and fuel pressure regulator.
then not that this will give mad hp, but it will help i would upgrade the spark with plugs and wires and distributor cap.
s-afc II
that outta be close or maybe 180whp or so. just depends i guess.

[phrozen]

engine management maybe?

[wootwoot]

Why would you need bigger injectors when stock are good for 200whp? and light weight flywheel/driveshaft wont make your engine produce more hp, but will allow it to be transfered to the ground with less drivetrain loss. safc=not enough. Think stand alone with itb's, head work, and 12-1 compression with race car style cams

[Andrew Bohan]

i made somewhere between 170 and 180 for under for $600

[stillmatic]

I made 165whp for $300.

[shinrekka]

i guess turbo it is for me, but i was just wondering because a few people i know dynoed 210-215hp to the wheels. Their hardcore drifters and all have pretty much the same set up, one guy has a 450hp 1969 camaro SS w/ a chevy 302 in it, the engine revs to 9k reliably and he hand built it himself. He built the engines for the 240sx in his dads machine shop so he probaly has alot of internal work enabling him to rev much higher. I know it sounded much higher pitched then my KA when he shifts but i just figured it was because the aggressive cams changed the sound. So maybe he did to the KA whatever he did to his camaro to make it rev so high. Does that make any sence? RPMs = HP?

[wootwoot]

rpms do = hp if you can flow the proper amount of air in that range. I could build an sr to spin to 10 grand but that doesnt mean there will be power at that level. How about you do something really cool and supercharge a ka? I still want to see someone do that; I can imagine it coming out cheaper than an sr with a turbo upgrade.

[daver903]

Originally Posted by stillmatic

I made 165whp for $300.

do tell!

[shinrekka]

yeh, i would like to do something like supercharging the ka, but i dont have that kind of knowledge or money to screw around. When I feel my driving/drifting abilitys exceed what the car has to offer, and can use more power out of the car, im going to custom build a 5-6psi turbo kit. I'd like to hit the 200-250whp range with little to no lag. When im older and have money to burn I'll screw around with stuff like that, i'd like to twin-charge my 240sx someday by following how the HKS twin charger system on MK1 mr2s went 0 lag even with high boost.

[RBS14]

I'll do it. It's not rocket science, you just need to put in your time. Hopefully I can get somewhere close if I ever finish this standalone so I can get these damn ITB's on.

I know, "I'll believe it when I see it.... blah blah blah." Save yourself the time, I don't give a fuck.

[ghostuss]

200 + NA is not hard. Just go high compression and all bolt ons and last tuning. If you want it to take it a higher step. Get hg and port polishes. It costs a lot more but worth it for the mean engine raw power and the look on ppl's eye when you beat them with a NAKA.

Oh P.S. I got some hotshot header for sale if anyone interested. You can find it in detail from my for sale post.

[North240]

200-250 out of a low budget turbo car........ You have seen the light, this is much easier/more cost effective.

RBS14 when you do get the ITB KA up and running i cant wait to see some pics/dynos/sound clips it should be pretty nasty!

[Dream240]

Originally Posted by IGSDann

Driveshaft + Flywheel = no added power, the engine revs quicker and a 1 piece alum. driveshaft is good for tons of power but they don't give you more power.

....uhhhh...whatever that means.

Okay, couple things to clear up.

Aluminum drive train parts does not CREATE hp, rather it FREES up lost hp due to drivetrain loss. i mean where do you guys think the "faster revs" comes from? Those lighter parts gives your engine more power to get to the wheels instead of using it turn those heavier flywheels and driveshafts.

Aluminum vs. stock = 11 lbs (flywheel) + 11 lbs (driveshaft) vs. 22 lbs (flywheel) + 22 lbs (driveshaft)

so you can see 22 lbs of drivetrain will free up quite a bit of horsepower....I would venture to say around 15 hp maybe as far as 25 if your lucky. I mean look at the aluminum pulley kits power gains.....about 7 pounds of drivetrain savings and those suckers netted as much as 12 hp at certain points!!!

I haven't done the flywheel or driveshaft yet, but I have done the pulleys, best power mod I did next to the headers.

Look at it this way, the average KA puts down 135 rwhp and 140 rwt, these are general numbers all cars will vary, so that means you will need to gain about 65 hp to reach your goal. so here's a list of mods that should help you get there. Keep in mind that these numbers are ALL general and will vary depending on brands used, engine condition, geographical location (i.e mountains vs. beach), and the dyno model used.

intake = 5-7 hp
exhaust = 5 hp
headers = 12-15 hp
pulley kit = 10-12 hp
lightened driveshaft+flywheel = 15 hp
Total = 47-54 hp gain (est)

Other mods you could do that would help but require engine disassembly would be higher compression pistons, if your car will be NA for life, go with at least 11:1 ratio forged pistons. And a port and polish for the head.

These should get you at least 200 hp if not the 215 others brag about. Keep in mind all these numbers I used could vary greatly, these are based on dynos i've seen and articles I read in some reputable mags. I've done all the engine bolt ons (no flywheel, driveshaft) suggested above but have yet to dyno my car, approaching 200k miles and I still smoke v-tec integras. Oh and mine's still an auto.

hope this helps.

[90RS13]

I think all of the, "this should do this" and "i think this will give you this" is retarded. If you haven't seen a dyno from a KA with whatever mod you're talkin about then don't post what you think it'll do.
i.e.

exhaust = 5 hp

now, I've never seen a KA get less than 10 hp from a 3" cat-back, and it's usually closer to 15.

Here's some food for thought, PDM dyno'd a KA24DE with intake, header, pulley, cam with specs, Intake 221 duration @.050” .379 lift; (272 advertised duration), .380 lift; Exhaust 231 duration @ .050" lift, (278 advertised duration), .390 lift. and tuning. It doesn't say exhaust, but I've never known anyone to have a header without exhaust but maybe it doesn't, whatever. Anyway it dyno'd 163.1 hp and 161.4 tq. By lookin at that you can see how it could become difficult very quickly to reach 200 whp. If you want it anyone can do it but it's not going to be quick and easy like it is with some other motors. People should also remember that the KA's strong suite is torque. It may not make dazzling hp numbers but it has torque in spades. A 2.0L s2000 may have 240hp, but is only has like 140 somethin torque. The KA with mods up to 160hp, as just seen still has about an equall amount of torque. That's what I want in an engine. Anywho that's what I think.

Also, no-body should talk about 2.5" exhausts. I used to think that a 3" could be too big, blah blah, but All that is retardedness that got passed down through generations. There's a mag on the shelf right now, (srry, can't remember wich) they replaced the secondaries on a honda B16 with a 3" dump pipe, exiting the car. No cat-back, nothin. They gained like 14 hp, and more importantly like 13 torque. That showed me that small, big, whatever engine. Use the biggest exhaust your app will allow.

[TurDz]

Originally Posted by Dream240

....uhhhh...whatever that means.

Okay, couple things to clear up.

Aluminum drive train parts does not CREATE hp, rather it FREES up lost hp due to drivetrain loss. i mean where do you guys think the "faster revs" comes from? Those lighter parts gives your engine more power to get to the wheels instead of using it turn those heavier flywheels and driveshafts.

Aluminum vs. stock = 11 lbs (flywheel) + 11 lbs (driveshaft) vs. 22 lbs (flywheel) + 22 lbs (driveshaft)

so you can see 22 lbs of drivetrain will free up quite a bit of horsepower....I would venture to say around 15 hp maybe as far as 25 if your lucky. I mean look at the aluminum pulley kits power gains.....about 7 pounds of drivetrain savings and those suckers netted as much as 12 hp at certain points!!!

I haven't done the flywheel or driveshaft yet, but I have done the pulleys, best power mod I did next to the headers.

Look at it this way, the average KA puts down 135 rwhp and 140 rwt, these are general numbers all cars will vary, so that means you will need to gain about 65 hp to reach your goal. so here's a list of mods that should help you get there. Keep in mind that these numbers are ALL general and will vary depending on brands used, engine condition, geographical location (i.e mountains vs. beach), and the dyno model used.

intake = 5-7 hp
exhaust = 5 hp
headers = 12-15 hp
pulley kit = 10-12 hp
lightened driveshaft+flywheel = 15 hp
Total = 47-54 hp gain (est)

Other mods you could do that would help but require engine disassembly would be higher compression pistons, if your car will be NA for life, go with at least 11:1 ratio forged pistons. And a port and polish for the head.

These should get you at least 200 hp if not the 215 others brag about. Keep in mind all these numbers I used could vary greatly, these are based on dynos i've seen and articles I read in some reputable mags. I've done all the engine bolt ons (no flywheel, driveshaft) suggested above but have yet to dyno my car, approaching 200k miles and I still smoke v-tec integras. Oh and mine's still an auto.

hope this helps.

ok so are you saying gran turismo, the real driving simulator, has been wrong in all of their games, and also wrong with their latest, GT4? I always remember that driveshaft and flywheel lightening is an effective way of reducing weight. Just because an engine is revving more freely and faster to redline doesn't equal more power to the wheels.

your quotes on horsepower gains from flywheel and driveshaft seem very off. I think you're overestimating how much power, if any gain.

[shinrekka]

1st of all, about all this lightweight flywheel and driveshaft stuff. Say the Engine Makes XXX amount of power to the crank, more of that power will reach the rear wheels. Not making more power but loosing less on its way to the rear wheels. So it is pretty much is giving you more power.

[shinrekka]

Originally Posted by 90RS13

Here's some food for thought, PDM dyno'd a KA24DE with intake, header, pulley, cam with specs, Intake 221 duration @.050” .379 lift; (272 advertised duration), .380 lift; Exhaust 231 duration @ .050" lift, (278 advertised duration), .390 lift. and tuning. It doesn't say exhaust, but I've never known anyone to have a header without exhaust but maybe it doesn't, whatever. Anyway it dyno'd 163.1 hp and 161.4 tq. By lookin at that you can see how it could become difficult very quickly to reach 200 whp. If you want it anyone can do it but it's not going to be quick and easy like it is with some other motors. People should also remember that the KA's strong suite is torque. It may not make dazzling hp numbers but it has torque in spades. A 2.0L s2000 may have 240hp, but is only has like 140 somethin torque. The KA with mods up to 160hp, as just seen still has about an equall amount of torque. That's what I want in an engine. Anywho that's what I think.

PDM dosent have high compression pistons in their car, you would be suprised how much power is gained if you use 89 SOHC pistons in a DOHC engine especialy if it has those modifications such as PDM. Think of this, my uncle has a 70 something pontiac trans am with a 455 big block in it. The car dynoed only 180hp stock. After he hiked up the compression alot with new pistons, aggressive cams, and 3" exhaust the car dynoed well over 400whp. Granted the KA24DE is a MUCH MUCH smaller engine, there is still ALOT OF POWER to be gained out of raising the compression, especialy if you have aggressive cams.

[RBS14]

Originally Posted by North240

RBS14 when you do get the ITB KA up and running i cant wait to see some pics/dynos/sound clips it should be pretty nasty!

I'm hoping to get it all on the car and running the last week of march. I'll definately post progress as it comes.

[90RS13]

PDM dosent have high compression pistons in their car, you would be suprised how much power is gained if you use 89 SOHC pistons in a DOHC engine especialy if it has those modifications such as PDM.

you'd be suprised how little you gain from pistons. You can usually figure around 4-6% hp gain. This is what the old v8 guys will even tell you.

Think of this, my uncle has a 70 something pontiac trans am with a 455 big block in it. The car dynoed only 180hp stock. After he hiked up the compression alot with new pistons, aggressive cams, and 3" exhaust the car dynoed well over 400whp.

I'm sorry, but your uncle didn't get 220 hp from pistons, a cam (they're not OHC engines), and exhaust.

[nightwalker]

damn this thread is so full of missinformation.

[Dream240]

Originally Posted by shinrekka

1st of all, about all this lightweight flywheel and driveshaft stuff. Say the Engine Makes XXX amount of power to the crank, more of that power will reach the rear wheels. Not making more power but loosing less on its way to the rear wheels. So it is pretty much is giving you more power.

Uh...that's exactly what I said.

And as far as the power gains from bolt ons...did you read my post? I said taht my numbers are general and will vary based on a number of factors.

Re-read my first post BEFORE you try flaming or correcting me. As far as the power gains i posted, I'm refering mostly to an ole Import tuner power page from like 3 years ago where they did an Injen intake, 5Zigen fireball catback, and Unorthodox racing SS pulley kit. If I remember correctly, the total gains came out to 24 hp at the greatest point. I'll try to find a link.

Originally Posted by TurDz

ok so are you saying gran turismo, the real driving simulator, has been wrong in all of their games, and also wrong with their latest, GT4? I always remember that driveshaft and flywheel lightening is an effective way of reducing weight. Just because an engine is revving more freely and faster to redline doesn't equal more power to the wheels.
your quotes on horsepower gains from flywheel and driveshaft seem very off. I think you're overestimating how much power, if any gain.

Oh yeah as far as GT games, yeah there really accurate, oh yeah 1500 for a lightened flywheel? What's it made out of uranium depleted shells?
GT games are really cool, but don't take EVERYTHING from them as truth, especially the tuning part of the game. tip: IT'S A GAME!!!
The power tuning aspect in GT2 and GT3 are VERY general, the mods, the power, the prices. Please. So if GT3 told you that a intake yields 40 hp gain it must be true right?
so unplug your neck from the PS2 and stick your ass in the driver's seat of a car and maybe you'll learn something. Sheesh.....

Here's the link to the power pages. Hope this helps clear things up.

http://importtuner.com/tech/0210it_powerpages/

If you'll notice the gains from the pulley kit....how do you explain those gains from a drivetrain mod???? Hmmm....someone just got flamed.....

[ThatGuy]

Dream240, was it really neccesary to make three posts? If you look down in the right hand corner of each of your posts there is an "Edit" button. PLease use that in that future to add info to your posts rather then creating back-to-back posts. Thank you.

I'm going to edit your 3 posts into 1.

[TurDz]

haha, import tuner? please...why are you referring me to their website?

And no, an intake in the GT games never yields that much power. A full intake/exhuast system only yields about 8hp on a miata.

You talk to me like all I do is play racing games and therefore that is all I know. Why don't you check out the CF/Alum thread and read more about it. That's another place I was getting information from. Many members here have contributed their two cents on that thread.

[90RS13]

Here's the link to the power pages. Hope this helps clear things up.

http://importtuner.com/tech/0210it_powerpages/

If you'll notice the gains from the pulley kit....how do you explain those gains from a drivetrain mod???? Hmmm....someone just got flamed.....

And it was you do you even read the articles you link to? They even state it in the article.

The pulleys increase net power further by under-driving the accessories, helping to reduce the parasitic power losses by a considerable degree.

[Dream240]

90RS13 why don't you make sense?

You quoted: "The pulleys increase net power further by under-driving the accessories, helping to reduce the parasitic power losses by a considerable degree."

Note the phrase, "increase net power further" and if you'll notice they're referring to the accessory pulleys. This implies the accessory pulleys, which aren't necessary, are ADDING to the power gains from the underdrive pulley, which is the root of the mod. Again i'll repeat myself, this mod in particular is FREEING up power that is lost through the drivetrain. This is also referred to as "parasitic power loss" which is what the link is talking about. So.....how many times you want me to say the same thing....and back it up by articles done by reputable sources? I'm done with that.

Turdz: I'm refering you to the article on their website because I choose not to dig up that issue and scan the damn pages so you can read them here. Please man what's your deal? How else you want me to back up what I'm saying?

Why don't YOU post a link to this other thread to back yourself up? oh....and that little intake comment was meant to be sarcasm...guess it was over your head...Just like the gaming comment.

I'm tired of stating the same thing so I'm done with this crap. You guys take the info I've given you or print it out and use it for TP. Makes no difference to me, it'll be your loss.

Peace.