Stance Coilovers

[yudalicious]

I am sure the Zeals are better than my KTS, but I doubt many people here are skilled enough in their driving to make up the almost $1000 difference between the $2000 zeals and $1100 kts... purely from an efficiency of spending point of view, but if someone wanted to give me one of the two... then that's a different story.

[EchoOfSilence]

Originally Posted by i8yourfwd

I was asking josh how much he could get them for..

The question about dampening was a general question to other people reading this thread. It doesn't say anything about dampening adjust on their website nor on the review. So I was curious. So no, I wasn't asking josh to read for me. Dumbass. No wonder your pinked.

Personal attacks can get YOU pinked.

Originally Posted by tErbo b00st

The damping on these is incredibly controlled. I have the damping set at 6 (theoretically the correct damping with the springs) and the ride is crazy good for 8/6 spring rates.

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I was just on Touge Factory's site, and came upon these new coilovers that they're selling now, sold by the company Stance.

Says it comes with 2 sets of springs, a pair is 8/6, and the other is 9/7.

15 way adjustable damping
inverted monotube
designed to go lower than most other coilovers out on the market right now (so it says)
comes with pillowball upper mounts

I meant read as in read the other threads about the Stance Coilovers. Granted it wasn't really mentioned in this thread, but there are 2 others that do.

[AutoRnD]

ooops 15 vs 16 way...

also w/ zeals i've had newbies pull amazing lap times in the zeals.. It like awd (cheating) he hehe...

But back on topic i have to definitely give these suckers a test run.. And i've ridden / drove / owned quite a few coilovers in my time.

[EchoOfSilence]

Yeah, keep us updated. A comparison with other coilovers would be great. the shock-dyno results would be very nice too

[floodo1]

Originally Posted by bcrume

Yeah, I'm a drifter. you called me ignorant and then listed exactly what I do in your exceptions. In a previous post, in this thread I wrote that Youichi Imamura (pro d1 driver, has won the d1) takes of his sway bars on certain tracks. So you should have known that I was talking about drifting. Maybe you were ignorant to that, so I'll give you the benefit of doubt. I don't care who you are, you're going to keep typing at your computer and I'm never going to meet you in real life. What does it matter to me what you think about me? I was just trying to help the kid in Finland before he listened to someone on this forum that was uneducated on the subject. 95% of 240 owners only bought the car because it was fr and cheap, and aren't willing to spend alot of money on their cars. They recomend what they know and that usually isn't much.I got a 240 because I know what the potential of the car is and would be willing to pay alot more than I did for it. If you really drift then you know the driver matters much more than the car but at the same time when you go fast and the car is built better and much more stable than a competitor it's going to let you push harder and be faster. There are some people on this forum that know what their talking about but most don't. I remember when rare trick was having an arc intercooler group buy and there were a ton of people posting about how it wasn't worth the money and were comparing it to the blitz and greddy cores. While arc is expensive and you can argue it's worth, the arc core is far superior than what else is available but they still compare it to blitz and greddy. Alot of the time they think they are right but end up being dead wrong. I didn't tell him to take off his sway bars but that stiffer isn't always better and he should wait to see how he likes the car before he adds sway bars. Super stiff sway bars made a huge difference when I had the blown stock shocks on the car. Once I got my coilovers, with high spring rates, the car was faster with the stock bars. Another thing that seems so stupid to me is that alot of people on this forum think that the advantage of a coilover is to be able to get the car really low, the real advantage is that you can counterweight the car. Around here it costs $450 to do that, I wonder how many people on this forum have done that. Your argument is quite weak if you have to resort to personal attacks. If you're so much more educated than me, why would you have two fallacies in your argument against someone that doesn't know what they are talking about? Should't it be so easy to prove me wrong?

ok fair enuf. i wasnt talking about drifting. but the principle still applies. i did explain how no rear sway bar would help with drifting tho.
i agree a lot of people speak out of their ass, and dont understand what corner weighting is , or understand why you need "double height adjustment", etc. yay

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally Posted by yudalicious

I am sure the Zeals are better than my KTS, but I doubt many people here are skilled enough in their driving to make up the almost $1000 difference between the $2000 zeals and $1100 kts... purely from an efficiency of spending point of view, but if someone wanted to give me one of the two... then that's a different story.

As long as you track the car on occasion you will notice, I guess I just assume most of you do some sort of track stuff since all my friends do... But even on the street it will make a difference, but in that case it will be a shittier difference because it will probably be too harsh for daily driving, and in that case buy the cheap and soft stuff.

[tougefactory]

Hello,

I will try to answer most of the questions in regarding our coilovers.

Stance was developed with testing, redesigning, improving, and re-engineering. We have also learned during that time what is important in building top of the line coilover system.

Internal parts have to be developed within extremely high tolerances. Also the raw material used have to be high quality in order to be able to do this. Alot of the cheaper manufacturers do not have the capability to even mimick these things. Thats why they are cheap. Stance is developed at ISO certified facility with the highest standards in the industry.

All the coilovers are dyno tested for low speed and high speed force vs velocity for proper valving. What makes good coilovers and bad coilover is the dampening. Even tho there are many decent quality coilovers at low price, it takes a proper know-how to valve a coilover. This is not something that can be replicated or developed. Stance is developed with testing,research and experience.

S13 and S14 models have been developed and re-engineered to our specs, here are some of the notable things.

- We use 175mm springs on the front to allow extra range of adjusment(most coilovers uses 200mm-240mm). Rear shock body is short but we used extra long bottom bracket to allow very big range of adjusment. This allows you to lower your car very low or drive at stock height.

- We had some problems with top pillowball mount clunking with prototype after some hard use. So we have changed original multi piece mount to a more expensive 1 piece unit.

- S13 & S14 models are valved for 9k/7k springs. So we're not just throwing in the 9k/7k springs for sh*ts and giggles. Reason why it comes with 8k/6k standard is that from our experience with 8/6,9/7, 10/8 springs, we feel 8/6 is the best compromise rate for street and track.

Hope this answers most of the questions you may have.

Please contact us for more info.

Thank you

www.stancesus.com
[email protected]

[SoSideways]

I think Dave or whoever from Touge Factory that typed up that little piece there above just has me sold on their Stance coilovers.

And I was thinking about purchasing the Silkroads prior to that...

[S14DB]

So, who's coilovers did you re-engineer? Who did the R&D and production for you?

[yudalicious]

It's not so much as noticing the difference in ride quality/handling characteristics as actually needing such a good suspension set up. I guess what I'm trying to say is that most people, even some that track occasionally, aren't driving fast enough to have a set of decent coilovers like KTS hold them back, having a set of $2000 dampers is overkill, and having sticky enough tires to match coilovers is a whole 'nother story.

Originally Posted by KiDyNomiTe

As long as you track the car on occasion you will notice, I guess I just assume most of you do some sort of track stuff since all my friends do... But even on the street it will make a difference, but in that case it will be a shittier difference because it will probably be too harsh for daily driving, and in that case buy the cheap and soft stuff.

Which leads me to ask TF: is there a chance of custom valving, rebuilding, etc?

[2iv0 sx]

looks like another one added to my list; we'll just see from further reviews. .

[Wiisass]

Originally Posted by floodo1

ok fair enuf. i wasnt talking about drifting. but the principle still applies. i did explain how no rear sway bar would help with drifting tho.
i agree a lot of people speak out of their ass, and dont understand what corner weighting is , or understand why you need "double height adjustment", etc. yay

Having a rear sway bar helps with drifting. Having no front swaybar also helps with drifting. A sway bar increases the lateral load transfer and as the sway bar gets stiffer that cornering capability at that axle is lowered. So for drifting having an overly stiff rear sway and a soft or no front sway would help induce oversteer.

Originally Posted by tougefactory

- S13 & S14 models are valved for 9k/7k springs. So we're not just throwing in the 9k/7k springs for sh*ts and giggles. Reason why it comes with 8k/6k standard is that from our experience with 8/6,9/7, 10/8 springs, we feel 8/6 is the best compromise rate for street and track.

While this is a decent start, what were the sprung and unsprung masses that they were designed with. I mean knowing the spring rate is only one of the parts of the equation. But i'm sure you guys did a decent job on them. I just can't wait to see the dyno plots. Just make sure the tests are done right.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

Having a rear sway bar helps with drifting. Having no front swaybar also helps with drifting. A sway bar increases the lateral load transfer and as the sway bar gets stiffer that cornering capability at that axle is lowered. So for drifting having an overly stiff rear sway and a soft or no front sway would help induce oversteer.

Oversteer != drift...

[Wiisass]

Originally Posted by KiDyNomiTe

Oversteer != drift...

Well it's not neutral steer or understeer so it's gotta be oversteer. But seriously, having a stiffer rear sway bar will create corner entry oversteer and overall help with drifting.

[KiDyNomiTe]

If you set it for oversteer it becomes too squirly and difficult to control. Also linking corners would be a pain, or early entries, holding long drifts, etc... Technically the car will understeer at entry.

I should have my review in a few days, car needs to be painted...

[Wiisass]

I'm not saying to set it up for hardcore oversteer all the time, I'm just saying that having a stiffer rear sway bar would essentially decrease the cornering limit of the rear of the car. Doing this wouldn't cause the car to become hard to control.

Recently, I've been running no front sway bar and a HICAS rear bar and the car feels great. Early entry, holding drifts, linking turns isn't a problem at all. I don't know why you would think the car would understeer at entry.

[gearhead290]

What's the availability on replacement parts for these?

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

I don't know why you would think the car would understeer at entry.

Do it faster, you'll under a little..

[Wiisass]

It might understeer a little, but that's more because of driver inputs than the suspension setup. A good race car should have a little corner entry understeer, but with drifting and entering the corner way before you would if you were racing it's a little different.

With my current setup, I haven't had much, if any understeer at higher speed corners. For higher speed for me, I'm talking mid 3rd, maybe 80mph max entry to start the drift. For corners like that, it's just been a lift off or quick brake jab to break the rear loose and then counter and gas. No real understeer for stuff like that.

But besides that, with a stiffer rear sway bar and a softer or no front, the car could still understeer a little, but it would be much less than with a stiffer front sway.

[snatch13]

Shock dyno will be out soon enough. AFAIK Zeals, HEs, Pro DDs, HKS Hipermax, Megan Racings, of course stance and whatver else we can get ahold of will be tested. If you have something you want to test against Stance, PM me.

Are you going to test your old silk roads against them? Those are my top 2 choices right now, so I was curious if you were going to do that.

[KiDyNomiTe]

I sold my coilovers, but I am going to try to get my friends silk roads.

wiisass - I guess its more drivers preference, I don't really like the set to oversteer thing. I love the crazy impact entry so I prefer the car to not kick out so simply. I would like to be able to grip my car with the same setup and not have to worry about it sliding on its own.

[snatch13]

I sold my coilovers, but I am going to try to get my friends silk roads.

awesome! that would be tight!

[Wiisass]

simba, it is driver preference. I like the way I have my car set up right now with no front and the HICAS rear. It's not at the point where it will oversteer all the time, it's not even noticeable on the street. But it's set where it's just easier to initiate. And running an NA KA, it just makes things a little easier.

[gearhead290]

Originally Posted by gearhead290

What's the availability on replacement parts for these?

anybody know? I know that replacement parts for silkroad is damn near impossible to get, which pushes me away. And face it, we all crash and stuff breaks. So if replacement parts are available I will probably order a set from Touge Factory when I get my tax return back, so any info would be much appreciated.

[KiDyNomiTe]

like what do you mean by replacement parts? What are you assuming you are going to break? Springs are laying all over the shop, there is a one year warranty I forget what they will cover, but call up TF or Stance or whatever and they will let you know what they will do.

[gearhead290]

Well, I'm mostly worried about the struts. I've seen people break that actual strut before (buddy of mine hit a curb and snapped on of his silkroads, he's had them sitting in his garage for over a year now and hasn't been able to get replacements; it was kind of a fluke thing, but I just don't want it to happen to me). Also, knowing how long it takes to get the struts rebuilt/replaced is always a good thing.

[2iv0 sx]

Stance offers a 1 year warranty and can fully rebuild for $150 per shock.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Ok heres my review

I picked these up from TF, comes in a nice big old box, a lot bigger than my Silk Roads. Open it up and they are all individually rapped in a whole lot of bubble wrap in thier own individual box.



Every set comes with a manual, 2 wrenches, the coilovers obviously, and 5 adjusting knob caps. The caps are actually pretty nice, my Silk Roads just came with rubber caps, these can be tightened on with the allen key so they don't fall off, you can still adjust the coilovers with the caps on them. And for the slow you can read which way to go for soft or hard.



The S-Chasis apps come with 9/7 springs. Front springs are shorter than the rear springs. Rear springs are the same length as Silk Roads (front and rear)



First thing I did was switch out to 9/7 application. You can either take them off from the top or the bottom. I used the bottom because I have no air tools, just undo the bottom brackets and collars swap springs. The springs have no markings on them so pay attention to which you replace.

After switching springs I compared them to my silk roads side by side.



First thing I notice is the beffiness of these. Silk Roads are pretty beefy on their own comparing them to Tein HEs. The camber plates are thicker, the overall body is thicker. The collars on Stance are all amost the same, while on Silk Road the bottom collar for the fronts is wierdly big, the top two collars are a bit beefier too. The overall length of the coilovers are longer also, so if you want sissy height you have more than enough room.

For the rears, same story, everything is beefier. The most noticeable change is the bottom mount/bracket, its almost double the length of the silk road one. The bottom mount will reach a little past the top collar, so having a long mount allows for the coilovers to go lower than the silk roads which will bottom out before the stance, also yet again allows for sissy height to the max...

For both front and rear the piston is a lot bigger than the silk roads, you can tell in the picture of the rears the difference. Also Stance has shorter stroke which can be seen in the picture of the rears. My finger is on the top of the cartridge, the Silk Road sits at about another coil down.

The one thing SR has and Stance doesn't is the camber adjustable bolt. On the SR it has an eccentric bolt on the top bolt for the bottom bracket. It has 4 settings. The stance bolts are offset, they sit at about setting 3 (1 away from the most camber).




Those are the pics of the coilovers on. I set the ride height to a little lower than my Silk Roads.




Considering its really cold (below freezing) it might take some time for these to settle. So I excpect them to a be a tad bit lower. I plan on lowering it a little more in a week or so after driving on them and painting my car.

Specification wise vs. silk roads

• Feature__________||Silk Road_||_Stance
  Inverted Monotube_||____X___||__X___
  F Camber Plates___||____X___||__X___
  F Camber Bolt_____||____X___||______
  Dampening_______||__8-way__||_15-way
  Spring Rates______||__8/7*___||_8/6 & 9/7
  Rear Bushing______||__rubber_||_poly-urethane

Driving Impression:
First impression is that they are really stiff. The first time I drove them I only drove on them for like a couple minutes. They had yet to be broken in. Drove on them the next day for a little longer. They are currently at factory setting of 6 of 15. After warming up a little they fealt similar stiffness wise to my SRs at 7 of 8, just a tad stiffer.

The ride isn't bouncy, but it does have that go-kart type feel to it. But it is more of a direct feel. I haven't had any track experience with them yet, considering its still snowing, but taking simple turns and weaving around in traffic feels very direct. There is not much body roll in these. Overall the valving compared to silk roads they seem to be a bit stiffer.

Once the car has bumpers and lights and I have the car at its set ride height I will take it out for a little street action and mess with the dampening settings.

[FinSX]

wow, they look very nice! You said they are beefier, how much heavier you recon they are?

lol those blue overalls are nice too
and good looking wide fenders you've got there btw.

[2iv0 sx]

coool! Great review so far.