Strut Bar

[Assassin]

LanceS13, if you put the strut bar on while the car's jacked up, how will you get back to the correct (static) camber when the car's back on the ground? In other words, assuming that there is some effect on camber from raising the car on jacks, how do you make sure that effect doesn't stay there when you drop the car back down?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from LanceS13 on 10:18 pm on Oct. 25, 2001
Yes you should raise the car...or at least the end on which you're installing the bar. This is called pre-loading. With the car in the air, there is no stress on the chassis. If you apply the bar while there's already stress on the chassis, then it can't prevent that stress from happening.
here's what the front of the car looks like on the ground (exaggerated)
/_________\
lifted on a jack
|_________|
add the bar
|------------|
and the chassis will stay rigid when you let it down.
If you don't preload, it looks like this
/------------\
and the bar isn't really doing it's job.
And torque specs on the nuts I believe are 35-40 for the front and 30-35 for the rear. Not real sure about that but it should close enough.
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[LanceS13]

The / and \ didn't represent cambered wheels...those represent an exagerrated chassis distortion from the upward force of the ground pushing on the four corners. &nbsp;It won't affect suspension camber. &nbsp;It's kinda hard to explain exactly. &nbsp;I had an article that gave a very good description of exactly how it works, but after 30 minutes of searching I can't find it. &nbsp;Just trust me...preloading helps.

[Drift Style S14]

Lance thanks for the info. i am buying injen intake and front and rear sway bars. After reading your post i now know that there is a right way to put them on. I knew sway bars had more to them, then just tossing them on. thanks for the great info.

[LanceS13]

no problem :biggrin:

Thanks LanceS13, that made sense. About the torque spec thing - what do I need to use to know what torque I'm at? I dunno much about this kinda thing.

[LanceS13]

torque wrench

[vancouvers14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Drift Style S14 on 10:39 pm on Oct. 25, 2001
Lance thanks for the info. i am buying injen intake and front and rear sway bars. After reading your post i now know that there is a right way to put them on. I knew sway bars had more to them, then just tossing them on. thanks for the great info.
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sway bars are completely different. &nbsp;we're talking only about strut bars.

[TRM02]

I stand corrected...Oh not the first time and won't be the last...

[LanceS13]

vancouver's right...I read right through &quot;sway&quot; assuming it said &quot;strut&quot;. &nbsp;They are totally different pieces and what I've said thus far has nothing to do with sway bars. &nbsp;I haven't installed sway bars, yet...so I can't give any first hand tips there.

[HippoSleek]

ha ha - actually, you guys were right, up until the end when DriftStyle changed it to sways. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;* edit/original point of post BTW: I recall yomamasmama (sp?) just added sways on his car.*

Lance, if you ever find that article, post a link. I put mine one w/o jacking, but would reinstall if it really mattered. I just don't understand how it could - check my logic and find the flaw:

If you install lifted or grounded, the result is still the same. The purpose of an STB is to brace the chassis so that the side receiving more force doesn't &quot;give&quot; during turn in. An STB works by fixing the distance between two points on the chassis by connecting them. This connection keeps flexing/give minimal, which allows more turning force to be transferred to the tires rather than being absorbed by the chassis. Because it merely braces, it shouldn't matter whether the suspension was loaded or not b/c it acts as a brace (i.e., keeping the fixed distance), regardless of other factors.

I'm thick headed, so I think I will also hunt in some other places. If I get a good engineering response, either way, I will post it.

(Edited by HippoSleek at 11:31 am on Oct. 26, 2001)

[konkman]

Vancouver, we need to get together about that strut tower bar from pdm.

Message me, email me, whatever, we should talk.

[HippoSleek]

Hey Lance - update from a guy that is the suspension guru over on another board (and also serious autoxer and IT class racer):

Well I don't know if I can help you, I really want to be hostile right now, none of this touchy-feely friendly crap. &nbsp;
When you install your STB, you want it to be neutral when the chassis is statically loaded, ie on the ground at rest. If you set it neutral with the car up on a jack when you lower it you'll place undo stresses on the bar which is not good for performance. What happens is the bar will get built up residual stress do to it being constantly loaded. This will over time weaken the structure to the point where the bar will become really ductile or brittle depending on the material and in turn this defeat it's purpose, to strengthen the chassis. Definitely install the bar with the car on the ground and set it neutral so there's no pushing or pulling of the bar on the chassis.

[LanceS13]

That makes sense....I wish I could find that article so I could see on what grounds it was based on b/c now I'm even doubting it's validity. &nbsp;Thanks for the info, though.

[konkman]

Vancouver, talk to me. &nbsp;If you don't want to sell it now, just say so, I'll leave it alone. &nbsp;I'm in limbo man.

[S13Grl]

Yeah, Vancouver. Why are you being mean to Konkie here?
Konkie, I know a guy who want's to sell his. It's a Stillen that hasn't been used for long. Off of a '92 240 coupe. How much were you gonna spend on a bar? How much would you give for this one?

[konkman]

I'm not looking to spend to much on a strut bar. &nbsp;Vancouver say like 50 bones canadian, for his, I don't really care if its a $tillen, or no namer, just as long as it looks good, and does the job.

[groundzero]

I have a quick question. &nbsp;I don't know anything about Strut bars, but should I get struts for my engine? and how about my axel? &nbsp;I'm so car illiterate? Help Please?

[gh6o6]

I was thinking of buying the set on ebay (front and rear bar) on ebay for $100. so i made a trip to the driveway and poped the hood. &nbsp;The front bar is straight foward as it is on all engines. &nbsp;I was satisfied so I proceded to the trunk and had a #### of a time finding the tops of the struts. I have a 96 se - its got the trunk not hatch - and it turns out there is carpet covering a metal sheild infont of the strut nuts. &nbsp;If i wanted to install the bar id have to grind off that sheild. And believe me theres not too much room for a tool back there. So i decided against it. I know you have a 95 but you should check it out if your going to buy a rear one.

I also herd that the bars make you fishtail more often. &nbsp;Does anyone know if this is true

[S13Grl]

I think you should talk to Nismo270 something. He's got both front and rear bars, I'll bring this post to his attention.

[HippoSleek]

There are two types of rear bars for s14's. &nbsp;The first type require you to cut your rear shelf/speaker deck and run it atop that (e.g., Nismo). &nbsp;The other type requires you to remove some sort of plated on the strut tower (hidden by carpet) and it attaches there (e.g., Cusco). &nbsp;I've heard very good things about both, but that the Cusco-type seems easier to mount and stronger. &nbsp;

Either way, a RSTB should stiffen up the back of your chassis a bit, which would equate to less chassis flex, which would transfer more lateral force to the rear wheels, which would likely increase the likelihood of tire slippage. &nbsp;Yup - more tail happy... but not likely to be significantly noticeable on the street b/c a coupe has a good amount of bracing back there b/c of the body work (unlike up front where there is a big open, unbraced space).

[vancouvers14]

hey konkman, i sent you an email 4 days ago about the strut bar, and i left my #.

[konkman]

Sorry Vancouver,

That's my fault. &nbsp;You'll be hearing from me.