All motor 240 ideas.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

wow you got your panties all in a bunch over what, wow dude chill the eFF out, thanks for the neg. rep, thats so cool. you rock.

many people mentioned the GT2/3 cars running 300HP all motor KAs and THAT IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO you fucking douchebag.

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

lol you are messed up in the head man, or you think the LS1 swaps are hard as hell and uber expensive... Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but you, are you being a bitter dreamer or just a douche today. posts like yours with hysterical negativity and no room for humor are just another reason the intArweb sucks.

lol. you fail.

A well done ls1 swap will have about 400hp, a well built KA (gt3 spec or so) will have about 300hp, YOU are wrong. A LS1 motorset with wiring harness, ECU, trans, and all the pumps will cost you about $3500-$5000. Then you either have to buy the mount kit or build your own. That will cost around $1000. THEN you have to have a custom exhaust made, which will be around $500 or so (guessing) for a well done mandrel bent set-up with mufflers. THEN you need a driveshaft, probably $300-$400 for a nice custom one. Then you need to have the wiring done (if you are not capable of doing it yourself), let's say $400 (maybe a little too much). So far we are up to $5700-$7300 and that does not include a LOT of stuff like intake, belts, hoses, fluids, radiator, etc... Most of the things I listed 99% of people will HAVE to pay for, the wiring is the one exception. You can save some money by putting the mount kit together yourself, but the cost in YOUR labor time will more than offset the cost of that. I have done the research and want a LS1 myself, but that is not the point. The point is that this thread is not about ANY other N/A engines than the KA's. You fail and got neg repped because YOU felt the need to bump this thread, which has run it's course already, with info that has nothing at all to do with this thread and is not correct. You can build a pretty damn badass KA for about the same amount of money as a LS1 swap and it is less complicated since the KA is the original engine for the car. If YOU don't like the KA then what is the point of YOU posting in this thread? Go post in the "v-8 240sx faq" or any of the multitude of KA hating threads here.

[300hp owen]

rofl.
in all of that jibberish you fail to even mention how much the GT3 spec all motor 300hp KA would cost... so how are you making a comparison at all? FAIL.

I would not fear saying that a GT3 spec 300hp KA would be very expensive... thats a race motor and damn thats not cheap.

my '98 LS1T56 dropout was $2500. I even went balls out and paid $800 to have my LS1 harness reworked and PCM tuned. um, to get that into a 240 is not that difficult even if you buy parts, and you still get to SELL THE KA that you arent using any more. I mention a '98 LS1 because theyre cheap and they are pushing the same hp that the GT3 KA motors are pushing, so its an apples to apples hp comparison and thus the cost is the item in discussion. the misc. parts needed to have the car up and running are just peanuts, chump change, when you consider the RACE PARTS and tuning up the fucking WAZOOO that you'd need to churn out 300hp from a KA. or did you want to stoke your KA as well and have that super rare rotating assembly on your list of items to purchase so you can have a $10,000 300hp KA? um, did you even think about the beefing up you'd need to do to the KA tranny to relaibly push 300hp thru it? or were you going to run a Z32 trans and an adapter and all that crap, that costs BUTTLOADS of money.

why so bent over my "bumping the thread", wtf, its not like it was a dead month old thread. I never said I didnt like the KA and quite the contrary, stop making assumtions on my beliefs, wtf. I am the last guy who would be an LS1 nazi.

ya know what, people were discussing the costs involved, LS1 got mentioned, I added my 2cents with humor and you FAIL to realize that.

and another thing, if you think a GT3 spec KA is less complicated than a bare bones LS1 swap in a 240sx, well then I have news for you, its not. go find a competent shop and ask them to price out a 300hp KA setup with a tranny and bolt ons that will endure that and support the power, then dont be surprised when its almost twice as costly as swapping in an early-gen LS1T56 setup to get the same power and even better gearing.

yeah I know the thread was about n/a KA but threads evolve beyond the initial post, dont they? whatever. fucking forum police yay!

[300hp owen]

so someone posted then erased it but -

"check this out" - http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/ot...59606209ss.htm

yeah NO SHIT!

"This is a race ready SCCA GT3 engine. Does not include flywheel, clutch, or mag PU bracket and carbs. These parts are available for additional cost"

on top of the SIXTY FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
racepar = fail.

[timster]

Just dropping by. I've weighed options, N/A, RB, KA-T, SR20, LS1, and I've driven almost all of them (gotten rides in others). Bang for the buck, if you don't mind not being a "purist" and being a complete and utter "failure" then LS1 is pretty siqq.

Owen you FIAL.

[timster]

And yeah, for a siqq nasty N/A build (rough prices, even worse estimates than yours, racepar):

Pistons 500
Rods 400
Flywheel 300
Clutch / PP 500
Valves / Springs / Retainers 300
Cams 600
ECU / AEM EMS (gotta make it run?) 500-1700
Machining (headwork gets expensive?) 500+
Stickers 5

So that's 4000+ dollars for <225 horsepower.

Just my two cents.

[kapowerhicomp1]

kapowerhicomp is the way i have 11 . 1 compression build block and head and 262 bc cam , jim wolf ecu with two programs 91,100+ ..... i have beat a few red/black top sr on street and also on the track..........ka is the easy way without cops fuckin with you ......... pop you hood you can have 220+hp or more . without cop and people knowing........ make life easy on you...kapower..................................... ................

[S14SwimShark105]

hahahaha I could not stop laughing at this post lol good good point over racepar he got

Building engines aren't cheap let alone building a fully built N/A motor. To be putting out 300hp on a KA I would think it would need to be rebuilt very often. So the cost of getting a KA to 300hp and the maintenance wouldn't even be worth it unless you have a big budget to play with.

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

wow you got your panties all in a bunch over what, wow dude chill the eFF out, thanks for the neg. rep, thats so cool. you rock.

many people mentioned the GT2/3 cars running 300HP all motor KAs and THAT IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO you fucking douchebag.

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

lol you are messed up in the head man, or you think the LS1 swaps are hard as hell and uber expensive... Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject, but you, are you being a bitter dreamer or just a douche today. posts like yours with hysterical negativity and no room for humor are just another reason the intArweb sucks.

lol. you fail.

[flip3d]

What's wrong with the SR20DE? They look like they make good power.

[300hp owen]

/\/\/\/\ that is gorgeous!!!!!!!!
all aluminum SR20 is so nice!

[timster]

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

//// that is gorgeous!!!!!!!!
all aluminum SR20 is so nice!

.. Where are the other four cylinders?

[racepar1]

$6400 is a bargain for a race-ready longblock. Ever seen the prices for a formula atlantic spec 4ag from an engine builder? It'll make you have a heart attack. With an LS1 swap it is not hard to spend around $7000-$10,000. Yes you can do it cheaper if you hunt for deals and/or have hookups. But you can build your own GT3 spec KA longblock for cheaper if you hunt for deals and/or have hookups too. It is no cheaper to do an LS1 swap then it is to build a badass KA, PERIOD. I am "policing" (as you say) this thread because it WAS a good thread. Good discussions on what it takes to make a KA badass, and that is the whole point here. Now it has turned into the same old crap, a discussion on what the best N/A motor is. The KA is not the best motor in the world, we all know that, but it IS a good motor.

TIMSTER: $4000+ for a 225hp motor sounds EXACTLY like a SR to me! People spend that kind of money for that kind of power on SR's all the time (including the swap)! What makes the KA not worthy? A 200hp N/A KA will absouluely OWN a 200hp SR because the KA 1: has more torque 2: is a n/a motor and therefore has better response than a turbo motor (assuming the tuning is well done).

[irax]

only problem with NA sr is that those of us in the US have to invest into atleast 2k just to get the motor and then your going to have to invest into the build.
And I bet you good money that he spent more than 6k just to have 220 NA hp

where is that 200hp na ka for about 1k link?

[300hp owen]

Originally Posted by racepar1

It is no cheaper to do an LS1 swap then it is to build a badass KA, PERIOD.

I think you are dead wrong if you compare an LS1 and a KA that put down the same power numbers thru the same type of durable drivetrain. reason being the KA is more stressed, high strung, on the edge to produce the same numbers. I'll concede the difference probably isnt much, but I do believe the LS1 is cheaper, hp for hp... especially in the long run when you have to consider rebuilding and general maintenance.

imho the SR's (w/coil packs) and LS1's both have better ignition than the KA, stock for stock and I think the LS1 wins hands down in the stock computers tuning capabilites and low costs of tuning.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

I think you are dead wrong if you compare an LS1 and a KA that put down the same power numbers thru the same type of durable drivetrain. reason being the KA is more stressed, high strung, on the edge to produce the same numbers. I'll concede the difference probably isnt much, but I do believe the LS1 is cheaper, hp for hp... especially in the long run when you have to consider rebuilding and general maintenance.

imho the SR's (w/coil packs) and LS1's both have better ignition than the KA, stock for stock and I think the LS1 wins hands down in the stock computers tuning capabilites and low costs of tuning.

If you are looking at it as a ratio of hp/$ of course the LS1 is cheaper. It comes stock with more than double the hp of the KA. A high HP KA is definitely high strung, any 4-cylinder motor pushing that king of hp is high strung. There is really no comparing an LS1 to a KA though. The LS1 is the superior motor, HANDS DOWN. But to say that an LS1 swap is any cheaper or easier than building a good KA is wrong. IF the LS1 swap is any cheaper it is only marginally so and only if you are doing an all-out GT3 KA build. You can build a 200hp or so, pump gas burning, all motor KA for way less than swapping an LS1 and it will still be a ton of fun and outperform most SR cars at the track.

[irax]

its stupid to compare a 4cyl to a V-anything your ignoring the simple fact that it has more cylinder it will always be easier to make more power with more cylinders

[floodo1]

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

[Mr. Jesse]

200 hp is weaksauce for that kind of money.

Originally Posted by floodo1

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

ls1 w/tranny ~ 500
ka24de w/tranny ~ 450

ka's are heavy as shit

[floodo1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jesse

200 hp is weaksauce for that kind of money.



ls1 w/tranny ~ 500
ka24de w/tranny ~ 450

ka's are heavy as shit

as heavy as an ls1? and seriously.....THIS THREAD IS ABOUT KA's NOT LS1's

[timster]

I fail at multiquoting, so I'm not going to bother.

Racepar: That was a low estimate pricewise and a high estimate with horsepower. And really? N/A is more responsive than Turbo? I thought you had to build vacuum with a N/A.

irax: Then why do people say the replacement for displacement is boost? Just messing with you, but if you're going to consider one (KA) then you've got to consider the other (LSx). They've got their pros and cons, and to each their own I suppose.

flood: Fail. Look at the title again. I'll reiterate for you. "All motor 240 ideas." Not all motor KA ideas, not all large letter / bold / oblivious answers.

Edit: Don't take me for some KA hater. I've got one in the car now, and I've got one in the garage. I've got enough stuff to make two more KA powered 240s. I'm a car guy, though, and I like all around cars. I'm a fan of the KA engine, simply because of how it's progressed in the past few years, but I won't be going that route with my car.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by floodo1

d00d seriuosly ls1 weighs how man times more than a ka?

Sorry dude, but an LS1 engine with trans, clutch and flywheel, and all pumps and accessories weighs significantly less than a KA with all the same stuff on it.

Originally Posted by timster

Racepar: That was a low estimate pricewise and a high estimate with horsepower. And really? N/A is more responsive than Turbo? I thought you had to build vacuum with a N/A.

You have to build boost with a turbo motor, NOT vacuum with a N/A motor. You have it backwards. Well built/tuned N/A motors are known for razor sharp throttle response. As for the title of the thread it is a bit misleading, if you take the time to read the first post you will see that the OP is only interested in all motor KA ideas, NOT an argument over what is the best N/A motor to swap in. The bottom line is that there is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT. The REALLY hardcore turbo KA's that I have seen make more power and torque than any of the REALLY hardcore SR's that I have seen. This is because of the larger displacement. More displacement means the motor can spool a bigger turbo faster, which means a better power/torque curve and more overall hp. The other advantages that the KA have are:

1: Iron block- An iron block is more durable and handles high cylinder pressures and heat better. This means more boost or compression.

2: More reliable valvetrain- Since the KA's have the cams pushing directly on the bucket lifters instead of the stupid SR rocker arms there are less moving parts and less potential problems.

[aa87]

Less potential problems in the top end.

The bottom end of the KA is where the problems arrive.

Why have the head for revs and the bottom end for big stroke rod throwing extravaganza.

[infinitexsound]

only 1 person i have read thru has the right idea...

i cant believe theres another one of these threads...

1 word blueprint

de gt3 motors make 310, scca rulebook from what i remember for running SIR was 31mm... and e are around 290ish

its not hard to build a solid rocker system for the 12valve, to get it to rev high just takes some brains a drill press and parts.. from random cars....hint* 22r....for the de...running over bucket shims kinda is problematic when revving really high.. thats why you gotta go underbucket...

torque wins races and is fast... high revving machines are cool for sweeping tracks but when it comes down to it... gotta have torque... last time i heard about rebello is that they have been building grenades this is just thru club racing rumors though.. i dont really care.. dave's a cool guy...

when one of you decides to engineer the best engine package available...i will give u props... but until then keep trying...or keep talking...

personally who ever uses the gsxr itb setup is weird.. when theres other bad ass methods to do it....im not knocking, im just stating theres other better methods to do it...

[irax]

Originally Posted by timster

irax: Then why do people say the replacement for displacement is boost? Just messing with you, but if you're going to consider one (KA) then you've got to consider the other (LSx). They've got their pros and cons, and to each their own I suppose.

even if you were to compare a 4cyl that is lets say 3 liters and v6 or v8 thats 3 liters they still wouldn't even be comparable. Regardless, the more cylinders the engine has it will be able to make more power and sustain higher rpms.

also they really should of named the thread all motor ka or something along those lines.

and the whole idea of this thread is to avoid spending on another motor just to build it up. cuz' if it wasn't i would of suggested to swap in a vq30 or vq33 or a vq35 and call it a day, and don't be an idiot and go stand alone on a VQ.
Stand alone on a vq is like trying to make your sega master system play GTA4. But thats neither here nor there right now.

[CKAMC]

I am suprised that no one has mentioned NA RB

There are plenty of them, just not usually imported but they are cheap.

lots of options whether it be a rb20 all the way to rb30 (rb20 pushing 155 stock, rb25 pushing 190 stock, and rb30 pushing 240 with only head swap from a rb20)

might take some work or asking to get a NA clip but they go for about 2k give or take depending on the usual factors

[irax]

i thought you could swap a rb26dett head onto an rb30e ?

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by racepar1

A well done LS1 swap will cost just as much as building a badass all motor KA, more if you cannot do your own fabrication as the bolt-in kits generally suck.

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

an all motor KA that is comparable in power to an LS1 will cost MORE than the LS1, imho.

Ive done LS1 swaps so I have a bit of knowledge on the subject

You are both right. V8 swaps can be cheap, but it's not going to be quality. I've seen just about every LS1 mount kit on the market and they're all crap.

owen, peep my posts in the V8 thread.


The only proper way to do any motor swap is to shove the motor as far back as possible. My firewall was moved back at least 6" and the motor shoved as far back as possible for better weight distribution.

My carb sits much lower than the intake plenum on comparable LSx mount kits due to the way their mounts sit on the subframe. Mine sit extremely low and requires no mod to the subframe.

The conclusion is that both people are right. Move on.


This thread is about NA KA-E single cam. If you want to argue other motors, please start your own thread or post in the thousands of other threads arguing the same thing.

[CKAMC]

Originally Posted by irax

i thought you could swap a rb26dett head onto an rb30e ?

ran into it on aussie skyline forum... they actually have a NA section with quite a few threads which suprised me

[infinitexsound]

Originally Posted by Matej

All these cars are running about 300hp n/a KA24E's I believe.

lol The Wonderbread car........LOL its been a long time since ive seen that car....blue s13 is collin jackson from somewhere north i think hes from canada or washinton....green car ive seen run a few times, the car is pretty consistent, red car might be Eureka High race car....its a 350z Body great program they got going.

Collin Jackson won a few SCCA Run-Offs.... very fast car man...

some of those cars run carbs and msd ignition..

Collin just switched to FI, from what i remember running sds efi...

I wish the Run-Offs wasnt in kansas... but at Miller motorsports track.....Kansas track looks horrid and ghetto...kinda like Buttonwillow...but Flat...Flat-out?

[water]

How many street cars have made over 200whp w/ a KA? 1, right?

How long have ppl been messing with KAs? 10+ years?

This should tell you that, in all likely hood, 180~190whp is about as good as its gonna get.

Speculation about race engines NONE of you will ever own is retarded. Especially considering that with a 13.5:1 CR, you'll need to run race gas. And get frequent rebuilds.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by water

How many street cars have made over 200whp w/ a KA? 1, right?

How long have ppl been messing with KAs? 10+ years?

This should tell you that, in all likely hood, 180~190whp is about as good as its gonna get.

Speculation about race engines NONE of you will ever own is retarded. Especially considering that with a 13.5:1 CR, you'll need to run race gas. And get frequent rebuilds.

While I agree with you, if the OP has the budget and wants to do it, why should we stop him?