All motor 240 ideas.

[Tulok]

I also agree with that, the destroking kit would definitely be the best option, to lower to average piston speed. thus raise the revs significantly. top fuel motors only turn 900 revolutions under load, and they replace the enigne after every 4 if im not mistaken.

[300hp owen]

wow this thread delivers.

[infinitexsound]

stop bitching..... buy this
http://www.courtesyparts.com/Merchan...de=14002-00001

buy this
http://www.extrudabody.biz/servlet/t...dsh-IDF/Detail

buy this
http://www.mpsracing.com/products/Accel/Thruster.asp

with all of that and a well built engine 200 is easy...

[sldbyuramg]

http://www.amsperformance.com/store/...roducts_id=304

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by johngriff

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.
Allowing the cams to advance or retard is pretty much what allows these 11.3:1 Compression engines to use 91 octane without getting a crap load of knock and ping, and to satisfy smog emissions.

I'm cheaping out on my build, the grand total will be some where around $2300 in parts, and a crap load of labor.
Right now my engines compression is in the shitter and my engine makes 162 WHP, I don't think its that difficult to make relatively 38 additional whp and stay smog legal using PDM cams, truck main caps, an extruded manifold and 300cc injectors. I mean the reality is I've already made over 30 WHP from stock with a cheap SAFC and bolt ons, it really can't be that difficult.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by Tulok

I also agree with that, the destroking kit would definitely be the best option, to lower to average piston speed.

If you want to slow down upward piston momentum you shave the counter weights of the crank shaft. Destroked works the same way, a destroked crank shaft weighs less than a stroked crank shaft.
If you notice boxter style engines don't even use crank shaft weights!!!!

[svensko]

Originally Posted by sldbyuramg

http://www.amsperformance.com/store/...roducts_id=304

I don't think 8.8:1 compression is going to go over well for your all motor KA24E.

[infinitexsound]

hence why knife edging cranks can make u rev pretty high eh.... vinnie those were the days....

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by water

Big vinnie is an idiot much like the rest of the KA fan bois around here. Nobody besides greaser has built (proven) a 200+ whp KA. And that was on race gas.

Fact is your ghey...

I'm also going to prove you wrong and still pass smog unlike greasers build. Even if my engine makes 190 or 198 wheel hp I'll still be happier than what greaser accomplished because he is no where near being smogable.

Do you even think for a second that professionals that build engines all day, every day have time to come to a forum? Do you think they want to give away there carbon copies on 200WHP NA KA's...NO, because then they wouldn't be making money giving you information for free.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

hence why knife edging cranks can make u rev pretty high eh.... vinnie those were the days....

Yes, and half the clowns in this thread are ghey.....

[svensko]

With the attitudes in this thread, I have no doubt that the KA will continue to be the red-headed step-child.

[murda-c]

this thread has convinced me that since i can't do an sr20 with my obd2 car, i'm gonna swap in a vq35, lol

[sldbyuramg]

i know i didnt mean to post that one... oh well...i suck

Originally Posted by svensko

I don't think 8.8:1 compression is going to go over well for your all motor KA24E.

[KA240SX808]

Wow this thread went down hill

[infinitexsound]

some of the reasons why ppl dont bother posting about a 200hp engine is because theres no need to boast... unlike some kids... who wish and never do...or never research..or never read any books...or never worked in a trade to accomplish some of the mediocre goals they have in mind.... instead this is what defines it all as the years pass through

[infinitexsound]

*dp-----------------------------------------

[timster]

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

--

That there will always be different supplies for different applications?

[timster]

Edit: I fail.

[water]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Fact is your ghey...

I'm also going to prove you wrong and still pass smog unlike greasers build. Even if my engine makes 190 or 198 wheel hp I'll still be happier than what greaser accomplished because he is no where near being smogable.

Do you even think for a second that professionals that build engines all day, every day have time to come to a forum? Do you think they want to give away there carbon copies on 200WHP NA KA's...NO, because then they wouldn't be making money giving you information for free.

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

on word tophat they do all motor builds on the ka all the time check them out and i would take a strong look at the stroke and bore from brian crowler

[cronux]

am i not correct in assuming that boxter style engines dont need crank weights bcause of their flat cylinder design, meaning that the pistons opposite each other balance each other out?


so what good would putting a lighter crank in a ka24de? it would just throw off the balance even more. destroking it is one thing, lowering the piston speed. but to lighten it would unbalance the engine even more.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by cronux

am i not correct in assuming that boxter style engines dont need crank weights bcause of their flat cylinder design, meaning that the pistons opposite each other balance each other out?


so what good would putting a lighter crank in a ka24de? it would just throw off the balance even more. destroking it is one thing, lowering the piston speed. but to lighten it would unbalance the engine even more.

Your correct boxter style engines use opposing pistons to create the momentum for the crank shaft.
Brian crower has the right idea for his crank shaft using chromoly which is a lighter steel composite, and fully counter weighted.
AMS is using chromoly as well to lighten there crank shaft assembly.
Now in the case of the KA half weighted crank shaft who is to say that you would throw it out of balance? When you lighten a crank shaft you also balance it. Your only dealing with the properties of inertia, as long as the weights weigh more than the rods and pistons I don't see a problem. Especially when you look at boxter style engines, these engines just use the opposing pistons which are the exact same weight to propel the crank shaft.
Your only dealing with the properties of MOI (moment Of Inertia), a 4 banger only needs enough inerta to propel 2 of the 4 pistons up ward, while 2 pistons one making the power stroke are going down ward.

[300hp owen]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.

WRONG ! and somewhat narrow minded too. no offense, just bugs me when people break down conversations way too simply and leave out important info in a good discussion.

what about the beautifully light and precise feeling f20c transmission!

so many people talk motor swap for motor swap but fail to even include some of the best aspects of certain swaps, the tranny! LS1 is great becuase the 6speed T56 is bulletproof and has great close ratios. the f20c is great because the 6speed is super slick and amazingly precise and quick shifting, its a wonderful piece of automotive machinery.

and now back to your regularly scheduled N/A KA thread, lol

[300hp owen]

Originally Posted by racepar1

A well done ls1 swap will have about 400hp, a well built KA (gt3 spec or so) will have about 300hp, YOU are wrong.

wtf this still bothers me.
a well done LS1 swap is just that, a swap, were not talking about modifying an LS1, especially when considering a budget build and last I check the stock LS1 puts down about 300hp. I know in the process of swapping one into a 240sx you can run a more free flowing exhaust, special headers and a nice CAI but without other mods like t/b porting and a bigger intake, etc you are not going to see 400hp. so a basic LS1 swap will still be pushing about 300hp.

yeah yeah yeah you can start with an LS2 or LS6 and you can buildup an LS1 with mods galore to see whatever hp level you want but for this discussion it was just a noteworthy idea to think about a very simple, very basic, LS1 swap for a better financial option to a 300hp n/a KA motor setup.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by water

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

Dude it's all relative a F20c and F22c only make roughly 205WHP on 91octane on a cold day. Now from what I understand the F20 and 22c engines don't have super high lift after market cams.. The potential for increasing power is maxed out on the damn thing. Also take into effect how prone that engine is to making less power on a hot day, the compression is 11.3:1!!! I would say that engine probably makes well under 200WHP on 91 Octane on a well suited 90 degree day.
Now for me, I will tell you off the top I am one in a few that are smog legit at 162WHP, this means I still use my egr assembly. The most I've seen from any JWT tune fully bolt on KA with removal of egr assembly is 159whp. I'm already surpassing most KA bolt on set ups with 95Octane. Hell I even surpass PDM racings set up that they advertise for there cam, header, and pulley at 163whp, and a shorter power band? I'm using the stock cams, and a scv manifold still!!!
Now my whole plan from the beginning was to have a street legal setup, thats all I brag about. I am a few HP shy of what a stock boosted sr20det makes.
The last thing you could call me was an idiot and a fan boi. Besides I don't need a black top sr to to compensate for cock size, fact is I'm smogable, your not...

[water]

Huh? I'm not bragging. Someone asked for my dyno so i provided. And who cares what a stock sr makes? Or emissions. Exhaust, fmic, and boost controller and i'm well beyond any pipe dream 200whp KA. Not to mention with plenty of room for cheap improvements. FWIW I'm running an s15 sr these days, totally stock w/ 550cc's and I'm making 300whp with really nice bottom end tq. And i have to reiterate, I never came in here comparing. It took one retard to start that. I simply said its not as easy as ppl were making it out to be (making a 200whp NA). Period, end of story. Sorry I called you an idiot - i should have said "if he thinks anything like you, he's an idiot." Mind you this in reference to the guy that thinks boosted engines make no tq. Good luck with your build.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by water

I hope you do. It really doesn't disprove my point which was that its obviously not as easy as people think. And for less money I could still do be better with another engine. So have fun. I am. :>

I am willing to bet that you spent enough on your SR to easily build a 200hp or so KA. Easy is a relative term. There is nothing easier than slapping a bigger turbo on to make more power (except nitrous), there is more involved than JUST the turbo but not much. If YOU think that you can do better then good for you, our definitions of better are different. To you better means more power. To me better means a very responsive engine built N/A, and be at least somewhat original. I don't care if it is easier with other engines, easier isn't my point nor is total HP. I don't need a bajillion horsepower to do what I want, I DO need a more responsive moderately powerful engine. Horsepower doesn't make faster lap times, the driver and the suspension do that.

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

wtf this still bothers me.
a well done LS1 swap is just that, a swap, were not talking about modifying an LS1, especially when considering a budget build and last I check the stock LS1 puts down about 300hp. I know in the process of swapping one into a 240sx you can run a more free flowing exhaust, special headers and a nice CAI but without other mods like t/b porting and a bigger intake, etc you are not going to see 400hp. so a basic LS1 swap will still be pushing about 300hp.

yeah yeah yeah you can start with an LS2 or LS6 and you can buildup an LS1 with mods galore to see whatever hp level you want but for this discussion it was just a noteworthy idea to think about a very simple, very basic, LS1 swap for a better financial option to a 300hp n/a KA motor setup.

Dude I posted that like 2 days ago, this conversation is soooo over. MY ls1 swap would be more complicated than building a KA. I would make my own mount kit so that I can put the motor where it should be, which will take like eleventy billion hours.

[Mikey213]

Hahahah im not sure if a bunch of the new KA kids really know their KA...
Basically Just having a frankenstien KADE with a knifed crankshaft , and a nice set of HKS valvesprings basically HKS, JUN valvtrain for a CA18 head...the rest you just play around with cams and tuning and you're good! It sucks cuz nobody in the US fiddles with the KA like this, if anything mr. yashio is the one really building an NA/KA which is actually an embarrasment for us in the US. A few people like vinnie know what's up it's just that we don't have a fluffy ass wallet like Yasio

[300hp owen]

BigVinnie, youre making a lot of sense, good stuff.

Originally Posted by racepar1

MY ls1 swap would be more complicated than building a KA.

hey thats not my fault, or even what I am talking about for the sake of the thread. at least compare apples to apples and not your dreamy dream setup from the far away future. even saing that, theres no reason someone couldnt do all of the same stuff to maximize a N/A KA24E buildup, like dry sump oiling, altered subframe to reduce cg, etc!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by racepar1

I would make my own mount kit so that I can put the motor where it should be, which will take like eleventy billion hours.

and that is just one more reason your LS1 swap isnt done yet. if you did a simple swap you would be blown away by the performance and not be held up with eleventy billion things to modify and go wrong and tune and dial in. trust me, out of the 5 local LS1FCs, 2 of us went simple while the other guys spent thousands of dollars on extra mods and special fuel setups and tuning, blah blah blah, they all had so much downtime because of mods and issues from such a complicated buildup, I just enjoy driving and how much faster does this car need to be, its already stupidfast.

[water]

Originally Posted by racepar1

I am willing to bet that you spent enough on your SR to easily build a 200hp or so KA. Easy is a relative term. There is nothing easier than slapping a bigger turbo on to make more power (except nitrous), there is more involved than JUST the turbo but not much. If YOU think that you can do better then good for you, our definitions of better are different. To you better means more power. To me better means a very responsive engine built N/A, and be at least somewhat original. I don't care if it is easier with other engines, easier isn't my point nor is total HP. I don't need a bajillion horsepower to do what I want, I DO need a more responsive moderately powerful engine. Horsepower doesn't make faster lap times, the driver and the suspension do that.

Are you mental? If all I cared about was peak hp, my setup would not have been what it was, nor would I have been pointing attention to my powerband, and I would have just posted up the 20+psi graphs (which were just for fun). I could have gotten a GT30r just as easily and sacrificed some spool and response for peak hp. Or a larger turbine a/r. Anyone into road racing should be able to appreciate the powerband I had - which is exactly what I had intended when I designed that setup. Notice how after reaching peak tq it doesn't drop at all before redlining (with any bit of significance)? My car was a rock solid track car, very responsive, and a BLAST to drive.