Lsd

[cloudpicker]

i am planing to get a used LSD and i wonder if the NISMO lsd comming out from a Silvia S13 K's is as good as the kazz and cusso??also will it fit 180sx??

[adey]

Yes, LSD from S13Ks should fit 180sx... take note of how many bolts your output shafts have, though. Some late 180sxs had 3 tab, 6 bolt shafts. Early models (I think 1995 and earlier) had 5 tab, 5 bolt shafts. You have to make sure the ones with the LSD (assuming you're getting whole pumpkin and not JUST LSD unit) are the same as the ones in your car; otherwise, you'll need new axles.

This gets quite complicated (which axles fit which LSDs, which LSD carriers {"pumpkin"} will fit in which cars...), I suggest doing a search first.

If you're just talking about the actual LSD unit, S13Ks will work with 180sx.

Nismo LSDs are, I believe, Just as good as Kaaz/Cusco/ATS... on the other hand, ATS is coming out with a carbon LSD, which sounds like it'll kick butt. Nismo also has SSS LSD, which is supposedly really, REALLY top of the line. Pros (like Dousan and Dorifto180sx) use it.

[cloudpicker]

actually i am interested at the item on ebay and here is the link,i think it is just the lsd not the whole thing,how can i check??


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6767

[sykikchimp]

that looks like a stock VLSD to me.. never seen a NISMO Lsd though...

[Dousan_PG]

looks like a VLSD to me too


here's a tomei, i think NISMO looks same, dont know fo sure

[adey]

That is almost certainly is not a (modern) nismo LSD. Don't bid on the item, it looks/sounds very sketchy. I'm 99% sure that's a VLSD.
That said, it may not even fit your car. Ask the seller for proof that it's a nismo. I know tomeis have "TOMEI" stamped somewhere on the LSD, nismos may (or may not) have the same.

[pruto]

my nismo LSD did not look like the one on ebay. It looked more like the tomei one (not exactly the same). But the holes are small like the tomei one, i couldn't really see the insides.

shoot, should have taken a picture.

Oh, i also didn't remember seeing NISMO stamped anywhere LSD. again... should have taken a picture...



p.s. yey, my LSD is on my car!

[Jsquared]

is the Nismo SSS a clutch-type or gear-type?

[Dousan_PG]

CLUTCH.

[Jsquared]

nuts. is Quaife the only company that makes gear-types for S13s, or what, 'cause I'm having trouble finding one...

[Dousan_PG]

quaife is helical
i dont like helical
i like clutch.
its because of what i do.


search mode has lots of answers, LSDs have been covered heavily inthe past 6 months

[Jsquared]

why you not like heliacal? all the good RWD sports cars I've driven have Torsen diffs and they are NICE. clutch types engage slower (drove a Fox-body Mustang with one)...

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by Jsquared
why you not like heliacal? all the good RWD sports cars I've driven have Torsen diffs and they are NICE. clutch types engage slower (drove a Fox-body Mustang with one)...

clutch ownz.
slow engagement? HMM? what brand? oem or aftermarket? HUGE difference.

i drift. i need clutch. helical transfers power around. clutch constant to both wheels.

[adey]

Originally posted by Jsquared
why you not like heliacal? all the good RWD sports cars I've driven have Torsen diffs and they are NICE. clutch types engage slower (drove a Fox-body Mustang with one)...

As I understand them, helicals are not good for drifting as they transfer ALL the power to the wheel with (more) traction. That makes it the exact opposite to an open diff. In drifting, what you want is both wheels spinning at the same rate, so you can predictably, consistently maintain and control drifts with the throttle. If you only have one wheel spinning, even if it's the one with traction, it's almost like an open diff.

What I would like, is a clutch type that doesn't necessarily engage SLOWLY so much as it engages progressively and smoothly. That's what's (IMO) important.
What was an LSD doing on the foxbody anyway? Drag car? If so it was probably a 1-way (read: virtually useless if you're doing anything that requires more turning than drag racing) and almost a completely different beast than a 2-way.

[cloudpicker]

thanks guys luckly i post up my stupid question if not i will be stupid thanks guys,so what do you guys think about Kazz,cussco??which is better??i am going for grip so i think i will get a 1.5 way

[Dousan_PG]

there is no 'better'
make your choice. see what you can find
also use the search mode for info

[sykikchimp]

I thought mustangs had live axle rear ends.. or "Detroit Locker" type diffs..

anyways.. a 1 way is not good for only straight line. It just means it locks under accel only. Which is a good thing for road courses as well b/c you don't really want both rear tires locked when trail breaking. Makes the car unstable.

Torsen/helical diffs are GREAT for grip racing. Just gotta make sure that you don't lift an inside rear tire while cornering.. luckily 240's don't have this problem.

[Jsquared]

yeah, i guess b/c i'm almost all grip driving, i've always thought of torsens being the "top dog"

As I understand them, helicals are not good for drifting as they transfer ALL the power to the wheel with (more) traction. That makes it the exact opposite to an open diff. In drifting, what you want is both wheels spinning at the same rate, so you can predictably, consistently maintain and control drifts with the throttle. If you only have one wheel spinning, even if it's the one with traction, it's almost like an open diff.

What I would like, is a clutch type that doesn't necessarily engage SLOWLY so much as it engages progressively and smoothly. That's what's (IMO) important.
What was an LSD doing on the foxbody anyway? Drag car? If so it was probably a 1-way (read: virtually useless if you're doing anything that requires more turning than drag racing) and almost a completely different beast than a 2-way.

helicals never completely transfer power to the gripping wheel, most can do a max of 70/30 or so... the Fox-body was mainly straight-line and i THINK it was a 1-way, but the only times i was playing with wheelspin was acclerating out of corners when the diff would be working.

i'm probably going to go with a clutch-type 1.5-way, primarily cost-motivated... if i get desparate i'm gonna have to look for a cheap VLSD...

[adey]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
a 1 way is not good for only straight line. It just means it locks under accel only. Which is a good thing for road courses as well b/c you don't really want both rear tires locked when trail breaking. Makes the car unstable.

Wouldn't a locked diff make a car unstable when accelerating out of a corner, too? From the what's written here, it sounds like torsen/helical diffs may be best for grip, since it seems like they can transfer a variable amount of power to each wheel, as opposed (simplistically) to a clutch type which locks the axles together quite quickly.

Thanks for clearing the torsen diff stuff up, I wasn't quite sure how it worked!

[sykikchimp]

your right adey.. thats why torsen is better for track. The clutch type do tend to lock on acceleration out of the corner as well, and that is what makes them hard to learn how to use. It is still better than having the inside rear tire light up like the open diff would be, and no power going to the outside left where all the traction is (where you need it).

Viscous tends to have more of a 'locking' action similar to the clutch type, just lags a bit before the fluid engages the lock.

Clutch is better for track than Viscous because it reacts sooner, and allows you to get power to the ground sooner. But torsen if better because it can Variably adjust the amount of power being laid down on each wheel depending on the traction of the tires at that moment.

hope that helps..

[sykikchimp]

also.. Open diffs are the best for trail breaking b/c they allow the car to rotate without the tires fighting each other, and the outside tire scrubbing. Keeps the car more stable, and easier to manage. although if you are LEFT FOOT braking, some lock under decel is a good thing, because you are still applying a bit of power, and the locking action will help rotate the car (the whole purpose of the left foot brake.

[adey]

Wow! Very good information; thanks!
So how fast does the torsen act compared to viscous/clutch, and how on earth do you control the difference between torque being applied to each wheel? It seems like torsens may be a little unstable as well, esp. when transferring torque from one wheel to the other... or is it so smooth and seamless that it really doesn't upset the car?

BTW are you running an LSD in your car, and if so, what type? (I imagine Torsen since you're not one of the "known" drifters here.)

[Jsquared]

a Torsen LSD has zero reaction time. let me state that again: a true Torsen differential can vary torque split BEFORE wheelspin occurs, unlike a viscous or clutch-type that requires wheelspin to either lock the clutches or slosh up the fluid. and to elaborate on what others have said, a Torsen can vary the torque to each wheel, and it never fully locks up. most can do 80/20 (or 70/30) left-to-right split, 20/80 (or 30/70, or whatever the max split is) left-to-right split, and an infinite number of percentages between.

[Jsquared]

I thought mustangs had live axle rear ends.. or "Detroit Locker" type diffs..

having a live rear axle has nothing to do with the type of differential. and "detroit lockers" are aftermarket diffs that really aren't LSDs... they are fully locked until the most minute turn is applied, then they completely unlock (on-off almost like a switch). used for drag-oriented cars only.

[andrave]

detroit locker:
*BANG! CLANG!*
or substitute your own massive clunking, clicking, and quicrky jerk noise/feelings.

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by Jsquared
having a live rear axle has nothing to do with the type of differential. and "detroit lockers" are aftermarket diffs that really aren't LSDs... they are fully locked until the most minute turn is applied, then they completely unlock (on-off almost like a switch). used for drag-oriented cars only.

doh.. didn't mean 'live-axle' meant solid rear axle like the newer mustangs have. I really have no idea about how mustang rear ends work..

live axle = older rx7's etc.. no idea about what it is though...

[AKADriver]

live axle = solid axle = "dependent" rear suspension. It doesn't imply anything about the diff itself, they can use all the same types of LSD as an IRS setup.

Mustangs have a clutch-type LSD in most models that have one, at least that I know of. The '99+ Cobra has an IRS and a clutch LSD, others have a solid axle with a clutch LSD.