Super Bowl XLIV: Saints vs. Colts

[codyace]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Peyton Williams Manning, choke artiste extraordinaire.

So what does that Make Dan Marino?

EDIT: I think everyone is really giving Manning way to much of a hard time. This guy is easily one of the top 5 of all time. Wow he doesn't win Superbowls. As above, neither did Marino. Should that *really* discredit them?

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by codyace

So what does that Make Dan Marino?

EDIT: I think everyone is really giving Manning way to much of a hard time. This guy is easily one of the top 5 of all time. Wow he doesn't win Superbowls. As above, neither did Marino. Should that *really* discredit them?

How about he is an elite quarterback who digresses in the playoffs?
9-9 record in the playoffs, 23-18 TD-to-INT ratio, and a dropoff of more than 10 in his QB rating. He did NOT have a good game in the superbowl win, not in any stretch of the imagination.

Compare him to the alternatives who are often placed into the conversation:

Kurt Warner: 9-3 record, 31-13 TD-to-INT, 93.7 to 104.6 QB rating.

Tom Brady: 14-4 record, 28-15 TD-to-INT, 93.3 to 85.5 QB rating.

Brett Favre: 12-10 record, 39-28 TD-to-INT, 86.6 to 85.2 QB rating.

Dan Marino: 8-10 record, 32-24 TD-to-INT, 86.4 to 77.1 QB rating.

John Elway: 14-8 record, 27-21 TD-to-INT, 79.9 to 79.7 QB rating.

Joe Montana: 16-7 record, 45-21 TD-to-INT, 92.3 to 95.6 QB rating

Peyton matches most closely with Marino...
BUT
By comparison to all the others, Marino comes out of this conversation, as another individual who seemed to shut it down in the playoffs, but let us not forget that the teams he FACED were his albatross, not teams that he came in with a higher seed over. Keep in mind as well that the only player I can think of off the top of my head that played with the Dolphins while Marino was there was Reggie Roby, and I only remember that because he was black and so am I. The man had NO help.
[Phlip note - not really, more because he was the only black punter I have EVER seen]
The best of the best, Elway and Montana, held pat or stepped it up on the big stage, and Elway would have been better under a different set of circumstances -- such as a miscarriage by Montana's mother.
Using numbers, here, we COULD remove Favre from the conversation as well, based upon that won/loss record and interceptions, and lord knows I want to as much as my distaste is for THAT self-serving assclown. So we stop and look at the fact that he had like NO support EVER except for Reggie White, and whaddyaknow, they won it when they were supposed to that one time.
Numbers don't lie, homie... And losing as many playoffs games as you have won is not G.O.A.T. material, you don't even get an invite to the party.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

How about he is an elite quarterback who digresses in the playoffs?
9-9 record in the playoffs, 23-18 TD-to-INT ratio, and a dropoff of more than 10 in his QB rating. He did NOT have a good game in the superbowl win, not in any stretch of the imagination.

Compare him to the alternatives who are often placed into the conversation:

Kurt Warner: 9-3 record, 31-13 TD-to-INT, 93.7 to 104.6 QB rating.

Tom Brady: 14-4 record, 28-15 TD-to-INT, 93.3 to 85.5 QB rating.

Brett Favre: 12-10 record, 39-28 TD-to-INT, 86.6 to 85.2 QB rating.

Dan Marino: 8-10 record, 32-24 TD-to-INT, 86.4 to 77.1 QB rating.

John Elway: 14-8 record, 27-21 TD-to-INT, 79.9 to 79.7 QB rating.

Joe Montana: 16-7 record, 45-21 TD-to-INT, 92.3 to 95.6 QB rating

Peyton matches most closely with Marino...
BUT
By comparison to all the others, Marino comes out of this conversation, as another individual who seemed to shut it down in the playoffs, but let us not forget that the teams he FACED were his albatross, not teams that he came in with a higher seed over. Keep in mind as well that the only player I can think of off the top of my head that played with the Dolphins while Marino was there was Reggie Roby, and I only remember that because he was black and so am I. The man had NO help.
[Phlip note - not really, more because he was the only black punter I have EVER seen]
The best of the best, Elway and Montana, held pat or stepped it up on the big stage, and Elway would have been better under a different set of circumstances -- such as a miscarriage by Montana's mother.
Using numbers, here, we COULD remove Favre from the conversation as well, based upon that won/loss record and interceptions, and lord knows I want to as much as my distaste is for THAT self-serving assclown. So we stop and look at the fact that he had like NO support EVER except for Reggie White, and whaddyaknow, they won it when they were supposed to that one time.
Numbers don't lie, homie... And losing as many playoffs games as you have won is not G.O.A.T. material, you don't even get an invite to the party.

As I said before, the guy is easily top 5 of all time. I'm not one to get to caught up on numbers. The guy is a professional, isn't in the news for beating his wife, isn't some crack addict, and helps out his local areas. He's darn near the perfect 'player' if you ask me...does the 'right thing' while faced with so many other easy options. So he looses a few playoffs games...so does our local 'guy' Donovan...Donovan's stats rank up there iwth the best of them (another guy I admire, always doin the right thing)...but is it fair that he won't ever even be in the same breath as Manning, Montana, Bradshaw, etc because of his lack of wins?

There is somethign to be said abotu having a stellar career, and a good playoff career. Remember, Trent Dilfer has a ring...in no way could we ever soley use numbers to rank players, nor coudl we ever rank wins. It takes a combination. I'm a consistancy fan - guys like Manning, McNabb, Favre, fit that bill for me. I'd rather have 10 good seasons than 3 good, 1 championship and 6 crappy.