Drift entrance techniques/form

[fckillerbee]

imagine a car....much like yourselvs. and your feet are your tires. when you are skiing....how do you create friction (stop) put your toes together (toe in), toe out would create the tires to pull apart from each other giving it a loose feeling (and I don't think this would be beneficial on roadracing as those guys run negative toe as well).

When road racing, the rotation of the car doesn't change too much as you are driving in a strait line vs drifting, the rear changes direction so much, that ZERO toe sounds to be the middle safe zone. Even though drifting has been around for a few years, I really think we haven't really been able to break down drifting in a phsyics form like we have nascar and formula 1.

Look at it this way....forseberg runs positive camber in the rear. Alot of people would question it...but his low power, he needs grip right off the line. Cars squat off the line cause neg camber....well if you are at posi camber to begin with and your car squats to ZERO degrees...that 100% contact patch on acceleration.

I wanna say he did this for mid drift....but in my opinion, it's worse, cause you want 100% contact patch mid drift....which would mean your weight transfer on the tires has the proper camber to give you the most contact....

I don't know. Where's forseberg so he can explain himself!

[240zach]

Originally Posted by slip&sliden 240

it is real simple

rip that e-brake, then powa over

hahahahahahahahaha

[Z33dori]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

imagine a car....much like yourselvs. and your feet are your tires. when you are skiing....how do you create friction (stop) put your toes together (toe in), toe out would create the tires to pull apart from each other giving it a loose feeling (and I don't think this would be beneficial on roadracing as those guys run negative toe as well).

When road racing, the rotation of the car doesn't change too much as you are driving in a strait line vs drifting, the rear changes direction so much, that ZERO toe sounds to be the middle safe zone. Even though drifting has been around for a few years, I really think we haven't really been able to break down drifting in a phsyics form like we have nascar and formula 1.

Look at it this way....forseberg runs positive camber in the rear. Alot of people would question it...but his low power, he needs grip right off the line. Cars squat off the line cause neg camber....well if you are at posi camber to begin with and your car squats to ZERO degrees...that 100% contact patch on acceleration.

I wanna say he did this for mid drift....but in my opinion, it's worse, cause you want 100% contact patch mid drift....which would mean your weight transfer on the tires has the proper camber to give you the most contact....

I don't know. Where's forseberg so he can explain himself!

Kevin hinted to us a lil bit, but he would never give us the full answer, or even what page to find it, lol.

EDIT:
actually here is a great shot of Chris mid drift. You can still see the toe in and the camber appears to still be positive.

[dkwasherexd]

I also set my rear at +1 camber, it squats under acceleration. Makes a gangload of smoke.

Heres some used 225/40/18s in the rear and 245/40/17 in front lol. I just used w/e tires i had laying around. I usually run 255s in the rear. It was the first time taking out the car after I got it running. Made 250whp on the dyno wih stock turbo. weeeeeee. Yeah still need to get used to the car and get my lines right.
YouTube - testing gold rx7

[fckillerbee]

daniel I'll have to drive your car with this setup? i've always wondered what it would feel like under load....since the weight shift won't have a complete contact patch....but the other side would have a complete patch...just no load.

Good vid...you need some knuckles man. it hurts me watching it. lol

fyi...your driving has improved sooooo much since I met you. Keep progressing man!

also, can I get alignment specs and tire specs (brand,psi,forward or reverse mounted)

looking at the forseberg picture....makes me wonder if the positive camber acts almost like a snowboard on asphalt in a way....preventing it from rotating a little more. (more pressure on the edge vs the middle of the tire?) fucking forseberg...your making me think to much. I wonder if your build is on ziptied....

[nieko]

One of the things i see wrong dk....

You are initiating WAY to late... especially with that power, which is causing you to miss the first clip by like 50 feet.

This is definately not toooo legit imo but see where i'm initiating, I could initiate even earlier if I used the outside of the track a bit more, this is stock SR.

YouTube - Competition-Top8Run_Nieko.wmv

I am the one leading btw...

dont be afraid to kick early, it will work no problem!

[fckillerbee]

fc's boost wierd with their gear ratio.....as often as I drive johns...I upshift to third....and then you have to wait until you feel the boost just kick in to initiate...or it'll bog....and if you try in second...it's at like 7k already by the time you hit 60mph.... there is a weird spot for fc's....but you have to be going faster already.

and nieko......in that vid...when you kicked the clutch...the car slid out....it then drifted out to the middle, and you turned in to hit the clip.....try flicking the car a little harder right when you hit boost. when you first initiate, it should push the ass farther to the edge of the track....
YouTube - Jason Kim 626 Drift
go to 50 seconds. jason kims z.
you can tell you aren't in boost yet, that's why the ass doesn't slide all the way out and grips. I'm sure you probably know this now. lol.

[chiboy002]

ok, guys, i've been practicing lately but i find its REALLY difficult to get my clutch to grab. Its an excedy OEM replacement, bought it in april and was good with the break in period. It won't fucking grab hard enough though, so is there an alternative to help with breaking traction other than the ebrake?
I was thinking feint but i usually am too scared to initiate the wrong way LOL

also, Idk if any of you know Brian Peters, but i talked to him a while back and he told me to fill up my tires to 70 psi to get them nice and stiff. Theyre bubble tires, 245s on a 17/7 so yeah, does that seem about right?

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by chiboy002

ok, guys, i've been practicing lately but i find its REALLY difficult to get my clutch to grab. Its an excedy OEM replacement, bought it in april and was good with the break in period. It won't fucking grab hard enough though, so is there an alternative to help with breaking traction other than the ebrake?
I was thinking feint but i usually am too scared to initiate the wrong way LOL

also, Idk if any of you know Brian Peters, but i talked to him a while back and he told me to fill up my tires to 70 psi to get them nice and stiff. Theyre bubble tires, 245s on a 17/7 so yeah, does that seem about right?

higher tire pressure makes the tire not form to the road as easy as having low tire pressure. so it'll break loose easier. before learning how to do a scandanavian flick, practice turning left and right really hard (like how nascar warms up tires)...if you do this hard enough, you will feel weight transfer. Once there is too much weight transfer, your back tires will kick out. If you practice find that edge (where weight and grip are at it's limits) then you will be more comfortable doing a harder flick....

never do anything you are not comfortable doing....that's how you crash, cause you don't know what to expect.

and if your front tires are grippier then your rear tires, you should just be able to turn out, then turn in really hard on throttle, and the car should just power over into a drift. Try that after you practice nascar style warmups. lol

i run about 55 psi in the rear on my tires. 30 in the front.

[chiboy002]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

higher tire pressure makes the tire not form to the road as easy as having low tire pressure. so it'll break loose easier. before learning how to do a scandanavian flick, practice turning left and right really hard (like how nascar warms up tires)...if you do this hard enough, you will feel weight transfer. Once there is too much weight transfer, your back tires will kick out. If you practice find that edge (where weight and grip are at it's limits) then you will be more comfortable doing a harder flick....

never do anything you are not comfortable doing....that's how you crash, cause you don't know what to expect.

and if your front tires are grippier then your rear tires, you should just be able to turn out, then turn in really hard on throttle, and the car should just power over into a drift. Try that after you practice nascar style warmups. lol

i run about 55 psi in the rear on my tires. 30 in the front.

haha ok thanks man. Yeah my fronts are yokohoma s-drives. The tires i have to drift on are Fierce, complete shit and came with the car, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Definitely dont want to crash though LOL

i'll try that out soon as sun goes down

[h2v7]

im a member of open diff winter snow drifing crew.... im legit!!!

not toooo many fuck ups i can do 3 to 7 turn drifts thru the neigborhoods it FEELS like good practice but my cement drifts are still MIA.

[traviss14]

i messed up my first 3 cars had no ebrake so i never used im my new car i put a working ebrake in but i so no use to using it i never do and if i do use it for entrance it normally ends in spinning but i do use it to prolong the drift


.....and i run -1 up front and 0 in back i waste no tire i have better grip when i have to run dumpster tire but i have thought about +1 in rear but i dont think i have the power for that to help

[dkwasherexd]

eh, I havent done an alignment in over 2 years. I will soon once I install my gp sport tie rods haha. Yeah fcs have a LONGG 2nd gear, once its third i have to wait a bit before kicking it.

Going with abigger tubo weeeee

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

Originally Posted by dkwasherexd

eh, I havent done an alignment in over 2 years. I will soon once I install my gp sport tie rods haha. Yeah fcs have a LONGG 2nd gear, once its third i have to wait a bit before kicking it.

Going with abigger tubo weeeee

Yup the second gear Is def longer If your rocking the n/a drivetrain!! T2 drivetrain Is pretty weak sauce for gearing..

[Bigalow311]

This thread should become a sticky

[iamtheyi]

soooo who's getting the year pass to Willow Springs since they upped the price 150%

[SHARKERIOcoupe]

I'm in an automatic all stock - so the only sliding I see is when it's wet - I just drop it down to second and jerk the wheel. I don't know - it feels like a delayed shift lock. Then wobble wobble in the 4x4.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by SHARKERIOcoupe

I'm in an automatic all stock - so the only sliding I see is when it's wet - I just drop it down to second and jerk the wheel. I don't know - it feels like a delayed shift lock. Then wobble wobble in the 4x4.

drift entrance technique is the title....

what does your auto have to do with drifting...i can slide a civic around in the rain....doesn't mean that technique should be posted here.

this is for real driving...not the 16 year old open diff in the rain.

[chiboy002]

ok i have an exedy OEM replacement clutch - before swapping that one in i had some unknown clutch (forgot to check) which grabbed like a boss.

Problem is, i'm not used to getting the Exedy to grab, since it seems to hold/grip less than the old one.

Suggestions?

I usually try to do a slight feint and then clutch kick, but i suck with co-ordination and i just wanna practice control right now (no ebrake pulls, yet)

[Z33dori]

what are things i can do to practice not losing my position on the wheel. I've embedded the wheel release to much on transitions, so every time i forget to grab the wheel, or if i try and throw it i get my hands all mixed up and have to straighten out. I know more set time will fix this, but feel the need to try and practice it some how w/o being at the track.

[iamtheyi]

Originally Posted by Z33dori

what are things i can do to practice not losing my position on the wheel. I've embedded the wheel release to much on transitions, so every time i forget to grab the wheel, or if i try and throw it i get my hands all mixed up and have to straighten out. I know more set time will fix this, but feel the need to try and practice it some how w/o being at the track.

Driving daily with both hands all the the time helps a little. Helps to get more comfortable with that kind of hand eye coordination stuff :]. I don't know if it helps though. I just do it anyway haha.

[chiboy002]

Originally Posted by Z33dori

what are things i can do to practice not losing my position on the wheel. I've embedded the wheel release to much on transitions, so every time i forget to grab the wheel, or if i try and throw it i get my hands all mixed up and have to straighten out. I know more set time will fix this, but feel the need to try and practice it some how w/o being at the track.

if i understand what you're saying, i put a strip of bright tape (thin, like 1 inch thick most) at the exact top so i can see the wheel spin around in my peripheral vision.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by chiboy002

ok i have an exedy OEM replacement clutch - before swapping that one in i had some unknown clutch (forgot to check) which grabbed like a boss.

Problem is, i'm not used to getting the Exedy to grab, since it seems to hold/grip less than the old one.

Suggestions?

I usually try to do a slight feint and then clutch kick, but i suck with co-ordination and i just wanna practice control right now (no ebrake pulls, yet)

we usually have our guys practice drifting around a ring about the speed of top of 2nd. They start out by gripping it, and either power over (just gas) or give it a clutch kick for a faster drift.

I also have a stripe on my wheel....lets me know when i'm at full lock to not push the envelope anymore.

Originally Posted by Z33dori

what are things i can do to practice not losing my position on the wheel. I've embedded the wheel release to much on transitions, so every time i forget to grab the wheel, or if i try and throw it i get my hands all mixed up and have to straighten out. I know more set time will fix this, but feel the need to try and practice it some how w/o being at the track.

I once watched a video where a driver said to put your thumbs in the "T" spot of the wheel 10 and 2. that is usually a good place to keep your hands. When drifting, and transitioning, i was taught to keep my fingers on the wheel, and use my thumbs to grip the wheel in between transitions. So never completely letting go of the wheel. Hope it helps...

[Z33dori]

yea the night after the event i went right back to watching all my saved incar videos and realized that most ppl just have a very loose grip on the wheel. More like letting it drag than just completely letting go.

I already have the yellow center line (ebay wheel) but do to memory steer, its not all ways mid way..hehe

But I will def try driving double handed again. I think one of my problems was trying to shuffle steer like you do while tracking (road race, etc), but the amount of movement wasnt enough maybe.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by Z33dori

yea the night after the event i went right back to watching all my saved incar videos and realized that most ppl just have a very loose grip on the wheel. More like letting it drag than just completely letting go.

I already have the yellow center line (ebay wheel) but do to memory steer, its not all ways mid way..hehe

But I will def try driving double handed again. I think one of my problems was trying to shuffle steer like you do while tracking (road race, etc), but the amount of movement wasnt enough maybe.

poor video...but you get the idea.
YouTube - in car steering wheel drifting

[SHARKERIOcoupe]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

drift entrance technique is the title....

what does your auto have to do with drifting...i can slide a civic around in the rain....doesn't mean that technique should be posted here.

this is for real driving...not the 16 year old open diff in the rain.

Oh - Ok - I shouldn't even try then. I quit!

[Brian]

I think the most important thing I learned in drifting is to let the wheel do most of the work. I try to keep my hands at 9ish and 3ish positions. The car does a good job of steering itself sometimes (in my opinion).

Here is an in-car of me from a while ago. The first run sucks and the second run I have to react to a barrier hit, but other than that, I think it shows what my hands do. Car was running half assed, so I was struggling a lot trying to get enough power to make it around the track.

YouTube - DRIFTING (IN CAR) @ ZIPTIED EVENT (#2)

The more you go out there, the more you'll get it. Best thing to do is relax and not over think it.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by Brian

I think the most important thing I learned in drifting is to let the wheel do most of the work.

.........

Best thing to do is relax and not over think it.

quoting to reiterate.
I can sit there and watch people spin and tell that they arent letting the wheel and caster do the work.

[pacotaco345]

I've been practicing a lot in the recent rain but no matter what I do I can't get the car to keep from spinning. Its either I'm full opposite lock and have to completely let off the gas then the car understeers and throws me the other way or I try to feint and I just straight understeer... My sequence usually goes 3 2 downshift w heel n toe, clutchkick, let the wheel go, full opposite lock and a bunch of weird noises.. then I either spin or the car catches and shoots me the wrong way. I can do pretty decent donuts around lightposts n stuff when its dry out but when its raining I can't keep from spinning no matter how careful I am with the gas or how much I countersteer...

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

I've been practicing a lot in the recent rain but no matter what I do I can't get the car to keep from spinning. Its either I'm full opposite lock and have to completely let off the gas then the car understeers and throws me the other way or I try to feint and I just straight understeer... My sequence usually goes 3 2 downshift w heel n toe, clutchkick, let the wheel go, full opposite lock and a bunch of weird noises.. then I either spin or the car catches and shoots me the wrong way. I can do pretty decent donuts around lightposts n stuff when its dry out but when its raining I can't keep from spinning no matter how careful I am with the gas or how much I countersteer...

sounds like you have less rear grip than in the front.

rain makes a KA have like 300whp. so imagine your current setup...with 300whp. now if your running 205's.......then it's obviously going to make you spin out.....

in the rain...everything has to be more precise, more smooth. room for error is smaller because traction is now less.

example....my stock ka will drift in 3rd on onramps (accidental) at 50mph.