Differnce between Blktop O2 and Redtop O2?

[KiLLeR2001]

Originally Posted by g6civcx

I don't want to prove anybody wrong. I just don't want a lot of bad info floating around.

Remedial info in my post: http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=113925

This is the only thing that matters:
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=113925

This is what the ECU sees at O2 sensor signal pin. The ECU doesn't care how the sensor actually works; only that .9 or more V, i.e. the presence of voltage, indicates a rich condition and 0V, i.e. the absence of voltage, indicates a lean condition.

While I agree that there are different materials used in the sensor, and each type has its own pros and cons, but in general, referring back to the ECU, this is all that the ECU expects to see. While it's also true that some types responds more quickly than other, but again, narrowband is very inaccurate so the ECU pulses O2 signal timing to get an aggregte reading.

With all SR motors, the O2 sensor has 3 wires: 2 non-polar power and ground for the heating element, and 1 for the signal wire. See my link above for this info.

The misunderstanding is in the fact that some manufacturers say that you shouldn't interchange O2 sensor type. This applies to severe duty or marine application where one works submerged in water while the other doesn't. In this application, only the functional submerged type can be used.

If you disagree with me, put a multimeter, or better yet, use a datalogger, on the O2 sensor signal wire for a fatty and a skinny and compare the reading to a wideband running at the same time. See what you get.

I see what you're saying but my question to you is, will the blacktop zirconia o2 sensor be as efficient with the redtop ECU instead of the skinny titania o2 sensor? (and vice versa).

[UNISA JECS]

Anyone reading this thread can atleast take this much from it, neither the skinny or fatty o2 sensor's are compatable or interchangable with eachother and beyound the obvious physical difference, the actually wiring harness are different on skinny vs fatty wiring harness, the ECU im sure as well is looking for a different signal of sorts from the o2 sensor.

Also for people that run narrow band o2 sensor monitoring devices they are not compatable with vehicles equiped with skinny (titania) sensors.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

Anyone reading this thread can atleast take this much from it, neither the skinny or fatty o2 sensor's are compatable or interchangable with eachother and beyound the obvious physical difference

Nobody is disputing this part.

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

the actually wiring harness are different on skinny vs fatty wiring harness

What is the difference between the 3-wire harness of the fatty vs. the 3-wire harness of the skinny?

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

the ECU im sure as well is looking for a different signal of sorts from the o2 sensor

Are you sure, or are you speculating? Again, not speculated by me, but confirmed by a lot of sources that this is the only thing that the ECU is expecting to see: http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=113925

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

Also for people that run narrow band o2 sensor monitoring devices they are not compatable with vehicles equiped with skinny (titania) sensors.

Are you insisting that skinny sensors are titania? If so, what is the function of each of the 3 wires going into the skinny sensor? How would someone know if their o2 sensor is zirconia or tinania?

[g6civcx]

Bump as I'd like to get some answers to my questions above.

I just spoke with a Nissan factory tech and he said that other than how quickly the sensor itself can respond, the ECU takes all the readings for a particular period and calculates an average. So this is pretty much what I suspected.

He also recommended upgrading to the Z32 fatty for all SR motors with stock ECU.


Anybody else can shed any more light on zirconia vs. titania, i.e. how to tell the sensors apart from each other?


Personally, I would really like to see a comparison readout of a skinny, fatty, and wideband all attached to the same engine.

[UNISA JECS]

Ok I know and can recall this much, if one were to run a fatty (zirconia) equiped ECU and wiring harness with a skinny (titania) sensor you would get voltage readings all over that place above 1 volt which wouldn't jive with what the ECU exspects to see. Sorry I can recall specifics on numbers as far as specs go I have learned this way back 2001 first hand with both types of ECU and harness and is why I know there is no interchangabilty between this parts. Ofcourse you may be able to rewire/repin some wires and around and make it work.

p.s. you gonna be hard pressed to find someone else speak on this subject as most people just dont know or care about things like this.

[wangan_cruiser]

blacktop has the fat bitch o2 and the redtop has the skinny bitch o2

[UNISA JECS]

There may not be a difference inside the actual ECU, however it may just be a difference in the wiring/pinning on the harness side with respect to ground and voltage supply to sensors since we know zirconia generates its on voltage and titania does not.

[UNISA JECS]

Originally Posted by wangan_cruiser

blacktop has the fat bitch o2 and the redtop has the skinny bitch o2

Everyone knows thats, but most dont know the harness is different and possibly the ECU but im not sure on that.

[nrg]

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

Anyone reading this thread can atleast take this much from it, neither the skinny or fatty o2 sensor's are compatable or interchangable with eachother and beyound the obvious physical difference, the actually wiring harness are different on skinny vs fatty wiring harness, the ECU im sure as well is looking for a different signal of sorts from the o2 sensor.

Also for people that run narrow band o2 sensor monitoring devices they are not compatable with vehicles equiped with skinny (titania) sensors.

the only difference is the size and type of sensor they are. BUT they are both interchangeable from the harness and works with both redtop and blacktop.
The pins and harness are the same on both.
http://phase2motorsports.stores.yaho...1sr20det1.html

i've ran both the skinny and fat on my car and it made no difference. I end up running the fat one on my redtop harness, motor, ecu for the past 4 years with zero problems.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

if one were to run a fatty (zirconia) equiped ECU and wiring harness with a skinny (titania) sensor you would get voltage readings all over that place above 1 volt which wouldn't jive with what the ECU exspects to see

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

There may not be a difference inside the actual ECU, however it may just be a difference in the wiring/pinning on the harness side with respect to ground and voltage supply to sensors since we know zirconia generates its on voltage and titania does not.

I would be interested in getting more info on this. If I gave you an O2 sensor, how would you know which type (zirconia or titania) it is? Is the difference strictly in the bolt size?

Both fatty and skinny have 3-pin wire harnesses. The middle wire is the ECU signal. The 2 outter wires are non-polar 12V+ and - for the heating element.

If the O2 sensor needs current because it is unable to generate its own, then it would need to draw power from one of the outter wires.

This much I know from experience. I ran fatty and skinny interchangably on my redtop ECU and noticed no difference. I'll admit that I did not log the data so I wouldn't know the difference any way.

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

Ofcourse you may be able to rewire/repin some wires and around and make it work.

I'm not sure you would need to repin. They all 3-wire harnesses and they all plug in.

Originally Posted by UNISA JECS

p.s. you gonna be hard pressed to find someone else speak on this subject as most people just dont know or care about things like this.

I agree. There is a lot of confusion and most people just don't care enough.

[aNskY]

dude you have a power fc, get rid of the stock o2 and run a wideband! LC-1 is plug and play

[design240sx]

i have a s13 red top and using a black top fat o2 sensor.

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by aNskY

dude you have a power fc, get rid of the stock o2 and run a wideband! LC-1 is plug and play

A wideband seems to be the best solution over the stock narrowband.

[TheVinylKingz]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but if one uses an 02 sensor (Fat) from a 200sx SE-R (sr20de FWD) (USDM) will it work on a black top or red top??

[Kingtal0n]

Any narrowband from any car will work as long as the pin input to the ECU is correct.

1-wire
2-wire
3-wire
4-wire

all types of narrowband will work as long as the single wire for ECU is correct