Bare Metal + Bondo= Rust?!

[SexPanda]

go to harbor freight
buy cheap mig welder
practice practice practice
weld frame together
enjoy firmer handling characteristics
and less comfort.

[silvialove]

thanks,
i'll give it a try

[breaker103]

just wondering what kinda bondo are you using are you using actual bondo or a profesional plastic body and what level like original, gold, rage, fiberglass, or kevlar renforced, or milkshake. i have personaly used all types as a tech bondo brand original is crap to me personaly. If you leave it outside when its moist it will get rust cuz that brand of body filler will soak in water even when primed unless its primer sealer.

the way i would do it is grind it down to metal then grind it with 40 or 36 not hand sand, then i would use a evercoat fiberglass renforced body filler, it is much stronger then bondo and wont split or crack over time, grind it down with 40 for grip then mix some evercoat rage gold body filler with evercoat fiberglass resin and lay it over and sand it flat, mixing the 2 products will give you a layer that is tough but has some flex and the resin will help seal it in

now if you dont want to do all that just grind with 40 in what you got for grip the mix your bondo with any fiberglass resin you should seal that sucker in less it already has rust.

[silvialove]

I've been using the original bondo "body filler" bought a tub at home depot.
I guess Didn't think/research enough about the different types of bondo.
Just thought bondo was bondo and the closest place selling some was home depot.

My car is pretty much rust free or that's what I can assume from working on it for a year.
So having no past rust problems, I didn't think that a rust would be a problem for me when applying the bondo.

But as I mentioned before, I think I'll keep doing my thang since not only would it be physically difficult for me to remove the bondo/sand/reapply ___(body filler) but also take a toll on my wallet- getting new materials, etc.

But if I don't go over with primer sealer;
Generally, how quickly do you think I would see rust begin to form or the effects of rust?

[breaker103]

you may not see any rust come through cuz of the color of the filler but since bondo doesnt really contain much iron the rust will not show for 3 months every 1/4 inch as for the effect of rust that depends on exposure

again if you didnt get moisture on it your are fine
now since your car has been laying around for a year if it got rained on or just left out side without anykind of primer on it depending how much you most probly have rust under there with out your knowledge

i have never seen bondo rust before metal but theres a first for everything

and for that one smartass that maybe out there when i me bondo start to rust i mean the actual rust begin to appear on the surface or when the ironoxide begins to acumilate underneath the body filler seaping to the surface

and just so you know you can buy rattle can primer sealer at autozone and even regular auto primer from rustolem found at home depot is good enough as long you let the primer pool on top i mean soak it and then some

you live in socal, life for a car cant get much better than being here in this nice dry environment

you're a bit of a douchebag for not asking before doing, but hey.. we all make mistakes.

personally, i would've sealed anything that was bare metal with etching primer, then done whatever you want to do (fill or paint) after that. however, i wouldnt EVER fill panels like that with filler - i just think its stupid and useless.

another member made a good point, i think it was s14db, that the seam sealer is important to keeping panels together. i removed seam sealer from various sections of my chassis but reinforced everything by having it stitch-welded after. then, the entire chassis was primed and painted. NOW, for the past couple months i've been working on the undercarriage and have been brushing and removing dirt from the wheel wells and undercarriage. sections that were stitch welded had burned through the vehicle's undercoating and need to be re-coated before subjected to the elements. i think a lot of people forget this when doing race-prep like stitch-welding, they take care of coating the interior with paint but never coat the undercarriage.. i wouldnt be surprised if people ran into big problems later.

for now, i'de rock your setup a bit and be very cautious. to start over would be very time consuming, so just rock it until things start to fall apart (which they probably will). filler will crack, seams will separate... fuckit, just rebuilt it. chances are, the socal weather will not harm your car. just avoid driving in the rain and keep the car stored indoors.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by breaker103

you may not see any rust come through cuz of the color of the filler but since bondo doesnt really contain much iron the rust will not show for 3 months every 1/4 inch as for the effect of rust that depends on exposure

again if you didnt get moisture on it your are fine
now since your car has been laying around for a year if it got rained on or just left out side without anykind of primer on it depending how much you most probly have rust under there with out your knowledge

i have never seen bondo rust before metal but theres a first for everything

and for that one smartass that maybe out there when i me bondo start to rust i mean the actual rust begin to appear on the surface or when the ironoxide begins to acumilate underneath the body filler seaping to the surface

and just so you know you can buy rattle can primer sealer at autozone and even regular auto primer from rustolem found at home depot is good enough as long you let the primer pool on top i mean soak it and then some

Yeah my cars been outside for the past year but I've kept a tarp + car cover over it.
It doesn't stop all the moisture but is a lot better than leaving it exposed to the socal weather.

Since I had sanded (300grit) the entire inside of the car all at once a few months back I've been seing the signs of the metal tarnishing?
Which is why I would sand the area again before I applied the bondo just in case there was any surface rust or the signs of the formation of surface rust.

After reading the replies from this thread I began to at least spray some etching primer before applying the bondo.
But I've only started doing this on the back of the car (hatch/trunk).
I think that's better than nothing.

You mentioned buying some primer sealer from autozone,
-How many coats should I put on?
-Would I have to sand in between coats?
-Do I put it on before or after the high-build?

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

you live in socal, life for a car cant get much better than being here in this nice dry environment

you're a bit of a douchebag for not asking before doing, but hey.. we all make mistakes.

personally, i would've sealed anything that was bare metal with etching primer, then done whatever you want to do (fill or paint) after that. however, i wouldnt EVER fill panels like that with filler - i just think its stupid and useless.

another member made a good point, i think it was s14db, that the seam sealer is important to keeping panels together. i removed seam sealer from various sections of my chassis but reinforced everything by having it stitch-welded after. then, the entire chassis was primed and painted. NOW, for the past couple months i've been working on the undercarriage and have been brushing and removing dirt from the wheel wells and undercarriage. sections that were stitch welded had burned through the vehicle's undercoating and need to be re-coated before subjected to the elements. i think a lot of people forget this when doing race-prep like stitch-welding, they take care of coating the interior with paint but never coat the undercarriage.. i wouldnt be surprised if people ran into big problems later.

for now, i'de rock your setup a bit and be very cautious. to start over would be very time consuming, so just rock it until things start to fall apart (which they probably will). filler will crack, seams will separate... fuckit, just rebuilt it. chances are, the socal weather will not harm your car. just avoid driving in the rain and keep the car stored indoors.

Yeah I know I should've asked the Zilvian Community but I didn't know it'd be such a big problem until now.
My dad, a neighbor, and the paint clerk all gave me the thumbs up so I just went ahead and did it this way.
My original plan was to put some primer on before applying the bondo.

The whole point of me filling the panels was to get a really clean smooth look.
It is useless but to me I did it for an aesthetic appeal.
I had a year before being able to drive (again after crashing my s14)

I planed to put the seam sealer back on, I think I mentioned that in the last pg.
I wanted to stitch weld the chassis but again the lack of knowledge & funds prevented me from doing so.

But thanks for agreeing with me on how time-consuming removing the bondo can be.
I'll take your advice & drive it hard till it falls apart.

I just see this as a whole learning experience and even though its been a total b*tch,
I know that my next project will benefit from the past experiences I had with this car.

[r6_240sx]

Like breaker103 said, you won't see the rust over the bondo (I myself have never seen that either). You'll see it if you ever sand it down again. Hopefully not too much moisture has gotten to it causing the rust to start pitting and weaken the metal structure.

This is not the main concern though, what I think everyone is talking about is cracking.

First of all, you stomping on it either does not mean it's not brittle. Do you even know what the means or how to test for brittleness? Have you ever stomped on concrete? Wait we walk on this all the time, but yet it is still considered brittle...

Stop being a stubborn ass teenager and take some advice from people who have experience and/or do bodywork for a living. You already made the biggest mistake by buying "Bondo" and thinking they're all the same. That should atleast give you an idea that you really have no clue what you're doing.

ATLEAST remove the bondo in the stamped portions where it was laid on real thick and replace it with the alternatives that other people suggested. I personally wouldn't use any of them because I hate using any type of filler in general to make up for metal structure. It just causes too much trouble; just look at what it caused in this thread.

Trust me, it does not take long at all. As silpena said, just take a chisel and go at it. If you get it right at the crevice it should just pry right off because Bondo has poor adhesion. Then replace with the methods other people have suggested. This does not cost much at all either.

As for the questions about primer, READ THE DAMN TECH-SHEET OR INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT. There's no one universal instruction for different brands.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by r6_240sx

Like breaker103 said, you won't see the rust over the bondo (I myself have never seen that either). You'll see it if you ever sand it down again. Hopefully not too much moisture has gotten to it causing the rust to start pitting and weaken the metal structure.

This is not the main concern though, what I think everyone is talking about is cracking.

First of all, you stomping on it either does not mean it's not brittle. Do you even know what the means or how to test for brittleness? Have you ever stomped on concrete? Wait we walk on this all the time, but yet it is still considered brittle...

Stop being a stubborn ass teenager and take some advice from people who have experience and/or do bodywork for a living. You already made the biggest mistake by buying "Bondo" and thinking they're all the same. That should atleast give you an idea that you really have no clue what you're doing.

ATLEAST remove the bondo in the stamped portions where it was laid on real thick and replace it with the alternatives that other people suggested. I personally wouldn't use any of them because I hate using any type of filler in general to make up for metal structure. It just causes too much trouble; just look at what it caused in this thread.

Trust me, it does not take long at all. As silpena said, just take a chisel and go at it. If you get it right at the crevice it should just pry right off because Bondo has poor adhesion. Then replace with the methods other people have suggested. This does not cost much at all either.

As for the questions about primer, READ THE DAMN TECH-SHEET OR INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT. There's no one universal instruction for different brands.

I think I understand that I've been mistaken so no need to rub it in.
As one of the young'ens of this site I think that we need more direction and less bashing.

As for the stomping, I know it doesn't test how strong it really is, just wanted to give him an idea that it doesn't crack as easily as he may have thought.
I actually did try removing the bondo a while back and its not as easy as you may think.
It sticks and doesn't slide off.
Using the chisel just caused more scratches leading to more use of bondo.
And I know how to use a chisel as that was my primary tool in removing all the sound deadening material & seam sealant.

There's not more much to do except cover a few more spot welds and sand everything down.
So if the bondo does crack in the areas such as the floor panels after the paints on and everything, then I'll use one of the suggestions provided to fix that problem.
All I'm focused on right now is getting everything put back together and driving.

[LA_phantom_240]

Something to be noted when using body filler over self etching primer is that the primer must be 100% cured (Typically 7 days to fully cure) before using body filler over it, or complications can arise with adhesion and longevity due to the acids in the primer.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by LA_phantom_240

Something to be noted when using body filler over self etching primer is that the primer must be 100% cured (Typically 7 days to fully cure) before using body filler over it, or complications can arise with adhesion and longevity due to the acids in the primer.

Never knew that,
Thanks!

you must've said "ohh shit" after reading everyones responses, but i dont think its as big of a deal as its made out to be. we all do stupid things to our cars, its part of the learning experience. if everything we did was perfect the first time around, we wouldnt be working on our cars.. we'de be done with the first attempt. you can easily spend infinite years on R&D...

my point though, is that whatever you did will most likely be removable once the bondo falls apart................ which it most always does. filler is shit, it should only be used lightly. after years of use, i wouldnt be surprised if you see cracks and a simple hammer/chisel will cause the filled to pop off.

why you did all this is beyond me, because making the shit look silky smooth is just weird. i know it looks clean and all, but there are bigger and more important things to think about and spend your time/money on. its like guys who mold their body kit, it's sheer stupidity.

with socal weather i dont think you will have any major rust issues. my car sat outside exposed to the elements when it was at the body shop, it was part primer and certain sections were exposed bare metal. yes, it had some slight surface rust which needed to be sanded before being sealed and painted.. but it wasnt permanent damage or anything like that.

post some pics, im curious as to what the fuck you did to your interior. sounds weird as all fuck.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

you must've said "ohh shit" after reading everyones responses, but i dont think its as big of a deal as its made out to be. we all do stupid things to our cars, its part of the learning experience. if everything we did was perfect the first time around, we wouldnt be working on our cars.. we'de be done with the first attempt. you can easily spend infinite years on R&D...

my point though, is that whatever you did will most likely be removable once the bondo falls apart................ which it most always does. filler is shit, it should only be used lightly. after years of use, i wouldnt be surprised if you see cracks and a simple hammer/chisel will cause the filled to pop off.

why you did all this is beyond me, because making the shit look silky smooth is just weird. i know it looks clean and all, but there are bigger and more important things to think about and spend your time/money on. its like guys who mold their body kit, it's sheer stupidity.

with socal weather i dont think you will have any major rust issues. my car sat outside exposed to the elements when it was at the body shop, it was part primer and certain sections were exposed bare metal. yes, it had some slight surface rust which needed to be sanded before being sealed and painted.. but it wasnt permanent damage or anything like that.

post some pics, im curious as to what the fuck you did to your interior. sounds weird as all fuck.

Haha that's exactly what I was thinking in my head.
But i agree with what your saying and i feel the same way.
I only did it because i thought i had to kill time and one thing led to another.
I kinda regret putting that much time into it since I could've spent my time driving it + the chances of keeping a s13 intact after getting into drifting are slim.

I still have to do the bondo some parts of the rear & front. In addition to alot more sanding.
But here's some crappy phone pics I have at the moment, haven't taken too many but you get the idea.
I know i'll probably get more crap but w/e.







But as you can see, I began to spray some primer before applying the bondo.





Btw- there's an old pic of the overall look of the bondo'd interior of my s13 on the 1st pg.

[aoiken3]

wow thats a hell of a lot of bondo there! it looks like the car is held together by it.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by aoiken3

wow thats a hell of a lot of bondo there! it looks like the car is held together by it.

Haha I know
Every spot weld, deep scratches, etc bondo'd
But again, a lot of it still needs to be sanded down.

you'll most likely be fine...

ive seen a lot worse work out there. at least you are doing it yourself. if you're anything like me (pig-headed), you'll push yourself to remove it yourself if it sucks.

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit. i tell people that putting dynamat is like tar-and-feathering your car, its a fucking nightmare if you plan on running a stripped interior. performance wise, i dont think it reduces noise much. you can use felt-type sound deadener like the stuff thats under the carpet and get much better results, plus its not so permanent nor is it filthy (dynamat runs when its very hot).

r6 summed it up earlier, if it starts to crack the nice thing is it should pop off quite easily since bondo doesnt adhere well, and i agree.

if you want to remove it easily, just get some dry ice.. chances are it will start popping.

[ZX88]

most logical way to of doing this whould getting the surface to bare metal apply primer then apply bondo so you know the metal is sealed in a sense before you bondo it.just my opinion.

[r6_240sx]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit.

Shit, no wonder why you're being so nice!

I saw that you replied to the topic and I was like uh oh this guy is in for it now. Then I read your post and I thought someone hacked your account, haha.

I think you're the only person I've heard from that said it sucks. It's practically the standard in aftermarket stereo. Odd. Did you use the Dynamat original or xtreme? If you used original, nvm then, I feel your pain.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by ZX88

most logical way to of doing this whould getting the surface to bare metal apply primer then apply bondo so you know the metal is sealed in a sense before you bondo it.just my opinion.

yeah that's what i just started doing.
a little late but better than nothin.

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

you'll most likely be fine...

ive seen a lot worse work out there. at least you are doing it yourself. if you're anything like me (pig-headed), you'll push yourself to remove it yourself if it sucks.

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit. i tell people that putting dynamat is like tar-and-feathering your car, its a fucking nightmare if you plan on running a stripped interior. performance wise, i dont think it reduces noise much. you can use felt-type sound deadener like the stuff thats under the carpet and get much better results, plus its not so permanent nor is it filthy (dynamat runs when its very hot).

r6 summed it up earlier, if it starts to crack the nice thing is it should pop off quite easily since bondo doesnt adhere well, and i agree.

if you want to remove it easily, just get some dry ice.. chances are it will start popping.

Yeah i agree with r6.
After i read the HID thread, I was scared that'd you'd see my post.
Thanks for the input.

[bb4_96]

if you're going to be done any time soon will you post aftermath after a week or two?

[lazysk8er2]

i hope hes done its been a fucking year

[LA_phantom_240]

Holy thread revival batman!

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by bb4_96

if you're going to be done any time soon will you post aftermath after a week or two?

I wish I stuck to my original plan of trying to finish by the end of this summer but because of:
1) summer school
2) new car- s14
3) lack of motivation
it still stands the way it was when I last posted on this thread.
Yeah, I'm good at making excuses.
I did "finish" smoothing out the p. side so I can post pics of that. Otherwise, the rest is the same.

Originally Posted by lazysk8er2

i hope hes done its been a fucking year

I know...it's just that I just started college and living on campus made it impossible for me to work on it.
The times I did come back, I looked at it and told myself "next time" lol

Originally Posted by LA_phantom_240

Holy thread revival batman!

Lol seriousss. Well I guess it was meant to be.
I was hoping everyone forgot.
Summer 2011- expect BIG things
I promise this won't be one of those unfinished projects we see too often.

[killer240]

i was in auto body

it wont rust if you do it right.

lets say u got a tiny ding. ur suppose to sand it down to bare metal. fill in bondo... then primer and paint or wateva.

[Sreds13]

I dont know what to say... your one of those guys that decided to go ahead and buy the gallon size Bondo just so youd have some always around...Then you realized you options where endless on what you could "Shave Away" for your 240. And low and behold you discovered the endless amount of possibilties you would have Bondoing the interior... Good GOD man this is crazy the amount of time you have in this and the epic challenge you have ahead has to earn you tons of respect. I hate body work just from painting my silvia two times. This takes the deffanition of tucked to a hole new level. I really want to see where this ends up cause it could go both ways in the end but you sir have the virtue of patients.

Here's the worst point of my 240...

[spectra]

bondo doesnt resist water. bondo holds water. water on bondo, on bare metal equals cancer, bondo is junk regardless, but you shall soon find out

oops a lil late

[silvialove]

Originally Posted by killer240

i was in auto body

it wont rust if you do it right.

lets say u got a tiny ding. ur suppose to sand it down to bare metal. fill in bondo... then primer and paint or wateva.

That's what I thought and from what I can see after taking off pieces of bondo that have been stuck for about a year now there are no signs of visible rust underneath.
But just to make sure I've been following this process: sand down to bare metal, clean, etching primer, clean, & THAN throw filler on top.

Originally Posted by Sreds13

I dont know what to say... your one of those guys that decided to go ahead and buy the gallon size Bondo just so youd have some always around...Then you realized you options where endless on what you could "Shave Away" for your 240. And low and behold you discovered the endless amount of possibilties you would have Bondoing the interior... Good GOD man this is crazy the amount of time you have in this and the epic challenge you have ahead has to earn you tons of respect. I hate body work just from painting my silvia two times. This takes the deffanition of tucked to a hole new level. I really want to see where this ends up cause it could go both ways in the end but you sir have the virtue of patients.

Here's the worst point of my 240...

Lol I actually had no experience with shaving at all before all of this happened. Which has been both rewarding & tortuous. I've already gone through 3 big ass cans of Bondo; mind you most of it has been sanded or needs to be sanded.

I only started this project because I was involved in an earlier incident with my s14 and my insurance was up the roof. I was able to buy this car after making a compromise with my parents that the car wouldn't be driven until my insurance dropped. I couldn't surpress the urge to drive and so I decided to take "preventative measures." And well one thing led to another...

I really appreciate the encouragement & kind words. Only a few people know the amount of time, money, sweat, & blood (literally) I've put into this car.

Btw, I love that pic of your 13. So rawww.

Originally Posted by spectra

bondo doesnt resist water. bondo holds water. water on bondo, on bare metal equals cancer, bondo is junk regardless, but you shall soon find out

oops a lil late

I don't think that'll be a problem. Like I mentioned earlier, I haven't seen too much signs of visible rust even in areas that are exposed (bare metal).
I know many of you are skeptical and I appreciate the concerns but my only concern right now is finishing.

[silvialove]

Pics as promised.

F. passenger side "finished". R. passenger side needs a lil more work; transmission tunnel as well.


Bare Metal. Exposed. Minimal Rust.


Next Summer= More updates. See you then!