What's the big deal w/ the wrx

[nrcooled]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the Subies have MASSIVE parasitic drivetrain loss</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thank you very much Hippo, the last SCC had the 'rex dyno'd at like 160hp someone do the math
And the sr runs 6.3 0-60 time stock (bone stock) so w/ a couple of mods you are easily looking at sub 6 sec 0-60 equaling a 'rex and mods beyond that will be on par w/ mods to the 'rex

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[tnord]

i'm not doubting a modified SR will put nice exhaust fumes on the stock wrx's bumper, but lets compare stock cars vs stock cars and the like. you know very well mark that a wrx responds very well to modifications, maybe better than the SR.

EDIT: usually i hate body kits, but that does look pretty damn good. and btw, the wrx isn't supposed to be a "pretty" car.

[nrcooled]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 13 2002,09:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i'm not doubting a modified SR will put nice exhaust fumes on the stock wrx's bumper, but lets compare stock cars vs stock cars and the like. you know very well mark that a wrx responds very well to modifications, maybe better than the SR.

EDIT: usually i hate body kits, but that does look pretty damn good. and btw, the wrx isn't supposed to be a "pretty" car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
But who here would actually leave a car like that stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'>
It just doesn't happen we all here have some type of desire to modify just some don't have the money or know-how

So why compare stock to stock when neither one of us was stock.

[sykikchimp]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ May 13 2002,07:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ May 12 2002,9:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">VW, Golf 1.8t and Jetta 1.8T.. Easily moddable, and in my opinion, better lookin than the wrx. and the Audi TT has a 220bhp turbo engine (same engine in the VW's but w/ more boost.)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Just FYI, the Audi TT Quattro has a 1.8T engine putting out 225hp, with a K04 turbo and twin SMIC setup.
The VW 1.8T engines (found in the GTi, Golf and Jetta) put out 180hp and has a 1.8 K03 turbocharged single SMIC setup.

I'm not sure if the TT's actually running that much more boost, but the fact that it's got a bigger turbo probably makes up the majority of the larger (225) number.

"chipping" (aftermarket ECU that basically bumps the boost to ~1.1 bar) kicks HP and Torque of the VW 1.8T engines to ~ 200hp and 230lb/ft. That's a big jump for a ~550 dollar chip! And yes, that's a LOT of torque!


edit: I think that's an ugly body kit... just MHO. There are other WRX headlights that I prefer to your friends, as well as the WRC ones too... I like the heads on the black soob posted earlier by dragonreborn.
soobs are nice. I took a ride in a WRX wagon for a canyon run and I swear, that thing stuck to the road like nothing else!</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah.. &nbsp;there is a lower TT that has the 180 hp engine in the Golf too.. &nbsp;I wasn't aware they used a K04.. (Neither was the audi dealer when I test drove it)

Either way, I would look into a VW Golf before a Subie, b/c I personally don't like the way the WRX looks..

[transient]

Would you guys stop calling it a Rex? Every time I see that I think you're talking about an RX7! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

As for the looks of the car, I really don't mind it. I really wish they would come out with a 2 door version of it, but that's the only thing I don't like that much. The fender flares look pretty sweet, and it's one of the few cars that actually looks good with a big spoiler.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ May 13 2002,08:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I stand by my belief that the WRX is one of the ugliest cars on the road today. It IS a tremendous out of the box value in terms of performance - but so is a Moosetang. My favorite thing about it is that it is ONE car that had all that JDM hype bs surrounding it that we got - and it sells.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And mustangs look better.... and i heard from somewhere that they are initially designed by some japanese guy... anyone can confirm that?

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nismo270r @ May 13 2002,04:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I bet the dog is like "WTF is that?!?!" <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Kre

[sykikchimp]

ROFL - Dog is probably like.. "that things gonna eat me.. "

edit- &nbsp;I think the older 2.5RS was a way better lookin car.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nrcooled @ May 14 2002,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 13 2002,09:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i'm not doubting a modified SR will put nice exhaust fumes on the stock wrx's bumper, but lets compare stock cars vs stock cars and the like. you know very well mark that a wrx responds very well to modifications, maybe better than the SR.

EDIT: usually i hate body kits, but that does look pretty damn good. and btw, the wrx isn't supposed to be a "pretty" car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
But who here would actually leave a car like that stock <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/notify.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':notify:'>
It just doesn't happen we all here have some type of desire to modify just some don't have the money or know-how

So why compare stock to stock when neither one of us was stock.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
alright fine, lets compare modified wrx to modified SR. iirc in the most recent issue of SCC, a 40 hp gain was had from an exhaust and some fuel mapping. can you do that? &nbsp;a different wrx was tested 60-0 in 105 ft. i'd be surprised if you Z32 upgrade people came within 10 ft of that. the same one did 0-60 in 4.8 with a larger intercooler, exhuast, boost controller, and larger turbo. can you do that? i don't know. it also ran the slolom faster than any car SCC had ever tested at 73.6 mph. so even if you are faster. YOU CAN'T KNOCK THE WRX FOR "ANYTHING" BUT APPEARANCE.

jack;"hey joe, i kicked the shit out of this RSX-S"
joe;"oh yeah, what kinda mods you got?"
jack;"i'm runnin 24 psi of boost with forged pistons, 3'' straight pipe, boost controller, ported and polished head, and 3 grand in other stuff."
joe; "wow jack, you're pretty sweet aren't you?"

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 14 2002,06:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">jack;"hey joe, i kicked the shit out of this RSX-S"
joe;"oh yeah, what kinda mods you got?"
jack;"i'm runnin 24 psi of boost with forged pistons, 3'' straight pipe, boost controller, ported and polished head, and 3 grand in other stuff."
joe; "wow jack, you're pretty sweet aren't you?"</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
jack: yeah, you see joe it does'nt matter if you win by an inch or a mile.....

[nrcooled]

iirc in that same issue of scc they spent 1k on that damn remapping for the ecu and the stage 0 kit not to mention the $600 exhaust they put on the m/f. &nbsp;So yes I did money on my ride but to make the 'rex faster you will have to spend the same money that I put in to get my SR up to my standard.

Pull the June issue out and have another look <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

[ca18guy]

I still don't see the point of this thread &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':blush:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

<span style='font-size:7.2pt;line-height:100%'>+1 vote to lock it</span>

[rotaryknight]

Ok the WRX is definetly a great car. &nbsp;Easily upgradeable...I was lucky enough to drive HKS' WRX from HKS to Bakersfield. &nbsp;That thing has a GT2835 and hauled ass! &nbsp;Given you can make both cars fast but also only one is actually turbocharged in the US.

First of all saying that a modded SR can beat a stock WRX is a stupid post. &nbsp;That's like saying oh I bougth a Datsun 510 for $500 put a SR in it for 3k and modded it with another 5k......AND I JUST BEAT A STOCK PORCHE TURBO! &nbsp;Porche suck they are expensive and so slow..... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> &nbsp;it doesn't work that way.

I'd rather have a 12 second Porche than a 10 sec 510 or 10 sec 240sx.

[luey02]

fuck comparing performance of two cars.. &nbsp;they both are capable of reachin anyone's goals.. &nbsp;but the general consensus is that the car is damn ugly! &nbsp; (dont mean to bash your car, dragon) &nbsp;why having same fender flares front and rear I do not know...

subaru needs new designers..

[Kreator]

I think both cars can go very far modifications wise if you got money. But at the point when both are at the max and running about the same, you can't leave the fact that 240sx is much nicer looking than a WRX. And i don't think you can make wrx look nicer because the whole design lacks beauty....

1 more vote to lock it.....

Kre

[azboy]

why does everyone like to compare the wrx with the 240? &nbsp;everyone has different taste in looks and performance. &nbsp;IMO I think both cars look damn good and has great potential but I brought a s13 because it's cheaper. &nbsp;if i had a choice between the two cars, i'd go with the wrx. &nbsp;

anyone can make a car go fast if they had enough money END OF STORY! rather it be a wrx, 240, civic, geo metro, etc.... $$$ is what matters, not what you drive. &nbsp;and who gives a shit about stock vs. stock because honestly people, who here is really interested in racing a car that is stock? &nbsp;if you want to race stock vs. stock then why swap the ka motor for an sr? &nbsp;we all know nissan don't make sr20det equiped cars in the US. &nbsp;wrx in japan have more HP then they do here so how come no one is comparing the 240 against the JDM WRX?

[tnord]

alright, there have been some utterly retarded comments as of late, but i won't say who because i'm just that nice
somebody please lock this

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 13 2002,08:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i'm not doubting a modified SR will put nice exhaust fumes on the stock wrx's bumper, but lets compare stock cars vs stock cars and the like. you know very well mark that a wrx responds very well to modifications, maybe better than the SR.

EDIT: usually i hate body kits, but that does look pretty damn good. and btw, the wrx isn't supposed to be a "pretty" car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I refuse to be baited into the whole which "engine is better" discussion that this always flows into. &nbsp;Nonetheless, I will grant that the Rex (not Rx7, not CRX) and the SR both respond well to mods.

STILL, I think that the AWD platform is inherently limited in it's motorsports utility. &nbsp;Sorry Travis - but there is a reason that all sports cars are RWD. &nbsp;Sorry #2 is that 60' times are useless in the a true sports car. &nbsp;Any fast car has a traction problem in the short run - the WRX overcomes that w/ extra drive wheels. &nbsp;In the long run, those extra wheels either 1) slow it down at speed b/c of parasitic loss or 2) cause broken trannys anytime you get above 320 hp. &nbsp;

Braking - well - I don't know what kind of tires they were using or whether they had ABS... of course, SCC isn't going to test brakes to the point of fade and I doubt they account for the tires on any particular car. &nbsp;At any rate, pads and fluid are a matter of personal choice, but I bet my car stops as good w/ OEM calipers as about any modified Subie.

Now all this isn't to say that Subies are crap or overrated. &nbsp;Crap and over-rating are, IMHO, subjective inquiries. &nbsp;One man's sports car is another man's joke. &nbsp;The only thing that is for sure is that it IS ugly <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;What it is to say is that it isn't a giant killer. &nbsp;Prosches aren't running for the hills. &nbsp;hell, 2.5 RS's still kill them in autox. &nbsp;Good car - sure. &nbsp;But a revolution that none of us should live w/o - dear god I hope not.

Mark
-who is still where he has been for the last 14 hours... work...

[tnord]

well, 4wd does have limitations, but does anybody here that i don't know of competitively race their car, much less get paid to do so? i didn't think so. so while your point about it's problems in motorsports may be valid, they don't really apply to any of us. mark, you know that i know RWD is the superior setup, i'll assume you just mentioned that for the others. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

maybe SCC did test to the point of fade, maybe they didn't. how many of us run into brake fade issues? not many. and that comment you made about your car stopping better than ANY modified scooby, well, i'll leave that be.

Ugly? i sure don't think so
Giant Killer? too soon to tell

bottom line, i've been arguing the scooby side so diligently because of the intial stupid comment

"will put you on the right track to absolutely dismantiling the WRX at the track"

not because i think one car is better than the other

comparing modified used cars to new cars, is, in my worthless opinion *bleep* *bleep* and only people with *bleep* *bleep* do it.

[DragonReborn214]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ May 13 2002,1:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry Travis - but there is a reason that all sports cars are RWD. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Skyline? 911 Turbo?

[Ballistic-Mobile.com]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ May 13 2002,1:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">fuck comparing performance of two cars.. they both are capable of reachin anyone's goals.. but the general consensus is that the car is damn ugly! (dont mean to bash your car, dragon) why having same fender flares front and rear I do not know...

subaru needs new designers..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Okay this isn't a 2002 wrx, but i think there is no denying that Subaru used to know how to design supercars <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> This is a 1998 Subaru wrx 22B &nbsp;
I think this ends the generalization of the words "ugly wrx." &nbsp;I will only let that be said about the 2002 wrx <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ballistic-Mobile.com @ May 13 2002,10:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luey02 @ May 13 2002,1:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">fuck comparing performance of two cars.. they both are capable of reachin anyone's goals.. but the general consensus is that the car is damn ugly! (dont mean to bash your car, dragon) why having same fender flares front and rear I do not know...

subaru needs new designers..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Okay this isn't a 2002 wrx, but i think there is no denying that Subaru used to know how to design supercars <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> This is a 1998 Subaru wrx 22B
I think this ends the generalization of the words "ugly wrx." I will only let that be said about the 2002 wrx <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'd say the rear is still ugly....

[AceInHole]

the front looks too S14'ish... i think that's why all the Subie drivers around here wave to me everytime they pass by..... I always wondered about that.

[Kreator]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AceInHole @ May 13 2002,10:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the front looks too S14'ish... i think that's why all the Subie drivers around here wave to me everytime they pass by..... I always wondered about that.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hmm to me it looks more GTRish than s14ish....

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 13 2002,9:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, 4wd does have limitations, but does anybody here that i don't know of competitively race their car, much less get paid to do so? i didn't think so. so while your point about it's problems in motorsports may be valid, they don't really apply to any of us. mark, you know that i know RWD is the superior setup, i'll assume you just mentioned that for the others. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

maybe SCC did test to the point of fade, maybe they didn't. how many of us run into brake fade issues? not many. and that comment you made about your car stopping better than ANY modified scooby, well, i'll leave that be.

Ugly? i sure don't think so
Giant Killer? too soon to tell

bottom line, i've been arguing the scooby side so diligently because of the intial stupid comment

"will put you on the right track to absolutely dismantiling the WRX at the track"

not because i think one car is better than the other

comparing modified used cars to new cars, is, in my worthless opinion *bleep* *bleep* and only people with *bleep* *bleep* do it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The point about motorsports was to say that they really don't handle that well beyond the midspeed cornering that awd excell in. &nbsp;It was more a dig at handling that racing. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> &nbsp;From what I've seen, WRX's get owned at autox by 2.5's and rolled on the track by me. &nbsp;Sure a lot of it is driving, but there's a point where I think the car just isn't really all that.

Notice that the braking comment was "as good... as about any Subie." &nbsp;Note the qualifier "about." &nbsp;Again, the point is that brakes are what you make them. &nbsp;To the point that 60-0 is a useful indicator of braking performance (I think 115-40 is better <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> ), a few feet one way or the other is only the difference in whether you run down some kid chasing a ball into the street. &nbsp;The bigger point is that my car will stop about as well as those - w/o the hype.

U-G-L-Y - that's the only daoistic truth in this whole discussion &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

Giant killer - not if it throws tranny parts on the ground at just over 300whp. &nbsp;Drivelines are an inherent problem in any awd car w/ must above 15/85 f/r bias (see, 911 turbo) unless it's got some tricky gadgetry (see GTR - which isn't really a sports car, sorry. &nbsp;But that's another place where JDM whores will hate me.). &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

But, it's all good - yeah - I know why you've been arguing this... just like I have... &nbsp;Someone has to stand up for the deep end of the gene pool <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;Honestly, I'd consider owning a WRX if it weren't for a few things: 1) Subie built quality sucks; 2) if I buy a boxy sedan/coupe it will be a 3-series; and 3) those things are like Civic Si's around here... oh yeah, and did I mention how butt a$4 ugly that thing is? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[tnord]

alright.......i took the braking comment too literally. you're probably right about the brakes thing, 115-40 is a more accurate competition comparison. &nbsp;and i totally agree that awd is useless in the mid-high speed corners.

ugly....i still don't think so &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

i think we've reached a pretty common ground on this, don't you mark? except for the whole ugly thing of course.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ May 14 2002,09:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">alright.......i took the braking comment too literally. you're probably right about the brakes thing, 115-40 is a more accurate competition comparison. and i totally agree that awd is useless in the mid-high speed corners.

ugly....i still don't think so <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

i think we've reached a pretty common ground on this, don't you mark? except for the whole ugly thing of course.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yup. &nbsp;The funny thing is that when you have true enthusiasts, there are few things, beyond subjective likes and dislikes, that can't be explained, understood and appreciated. &nbsp;We always land in about the same place... but it's fun to get there w/ someone who can actually make me think about it.

Okay, now back to picking on people for bitching about "ricers in 240s" as they contrast those people with others that are cooly "jocking" their JDM style. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>