LCA's fall victim to energy suspension (2004 thread updated with 2009 information!)

[INeedNewTires]

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

if money is no object, consider getting the spl press-in spherical bushings for the knuckle.
http://www.splparts.com/main4/parts/...inkBushing.jpg

Money is always 'an object'... I about choked when i had to drop the 300 on the one pair of bushings i got. but after talking to Kuah he said that one is very important because of the S14 having a greater angle on the rear shocks than the Z32. The other spherical's i just cant justify because of the cost. Got the whole rear bushing set for $60 which is less than half the cost of 1 pair if bushings from SPL. Dont get me wrong SPL is the shit and i know those would be the best route but i'm going to try this out and post up how it goes.

[az_240]

Originally Posted by INeedNewTires

Money is always 'an object'... I about choked when i had to drop the 300 on the one pair of bushings i got. but after talking to Kuah he said that one is very important because of the S14 having a greater angle on the rear shocks than the Z32. The other spherical's i just cant justify because of the cost. Got the whole rear bushing set for $60 which is less than half the cost of 1 pair if bushings from SPL. Dont get me wrong SPL is the shit and i know those would be the best route but i'm going to try this out and post up how it goes.

I currently have this z32 rear upright setup minus the spherical shock mount bushing on my s14.


I might have to shave a little off the upright.... the rear shock is hitting it slightly.

I've been looking for a cheaper alternative for that shock mount bushing but cannot find anything other than SPL's which is rape. Sadly it looks like I will have to eventually bend over and just take it.



As for the tension rod bushings I have experience with nismo's, ES, and the SPL rods. Nismos are hands down the BEST for daily driving only because they don't rattle your teeth out and still stiffen everything up a good amount.

Just be sure to get them pressed in correctly.... with the arrow pointing toward the back of the car. ALSO be sure to tighten the tension rod with the car on the ground to avoid tearing them up.

ES requires too much greasing and the spherical rods are too much for my kidneys

[water]

Originally Posted by az_240

I currently have this z32 rear upright setup minus the spherical shock mount bushing on my s14.


I might have to shave a little off the upright.... the rear shock is hitting it slightly.

I've been looking for a cheaper alternative for that shock mount bushing but cannot find anything other than SPL's which is rape. Sadly it looks like I will have to eventually bend over and just take it.

I am in the same boat. I was trying to hold off on these bushings but after 6 months of driving around with stock z32 knuckle bushings, they are ripped/torn and my rear suspension feels like shit. I may just go back to a stock knuckle and get stock lower mounts for the shocks b/c i hate dealing w/ bushings and those are such such ass rape at $300. The only thing holding me back is that i spent a lot of time pressing out the old knuckle bushings for ES bushings so i don't want it to all be for nothing. ehhhh

[singlecamslam]

question, so the solution to this would be to either buy Nismo LCA bushings or grease? lots of it? Because i'm running SPL TC rods and installing nismo LCA bushings, does that sound like a good combo?

[enkei2k]

as for grease, your ES poly set should have come with a little tube of grease

good information, i had no idea about that. i guess i'll end up getting ES master kit with some peak performance subframe spacers to go with it. or do i even need the spacers at all if i'm getting the master kit? better safe than sorry with the subframe spacers?

[aznpoopy]

this website also has the part # information
Nismoparts.com - Your #1 Source for OEM Parts and Accessories
(add to cart, then view cart, it will display the part #)

Originally Posted by enkei2k

good information, i had no idea about that. i guess i'll end up getting ES master kit with some peak performance subframe spacers to go with it. or do i even need the spacers at all if i'm getting the master kit? better safe than sorry with the subframe spacers?

i can tell you from firsthand experience that the master kit does not include subframe bushings. if you have subframe issues you will need to buy the spacers or bushings separately.

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

question, so the solution to this would be to either buy Nismo LCA bushings or grease? lots of it? Because i'm running SPL TC rods and installing nismo LCA bushings, does that sound like a good combo?

afaik the nismo bushings don't have this problem. at any rate, IMO polyurethane bushings are fine for the front and rear LCAs. i have ES bushings in my front LCA and never noticed any problems like you get in the rear multilink assembly.

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

afaik the nismo bushings don't have this problem. at any rate, IMO polyurethane bushings are fine for the front and rear LCAs. i have ES bushings in my front LCA and never noticed any problems like you get in the rear multilink assembly.

I have urethane in the front LCA which I will pull out soon, i am still working on the back end of the car and dont want to start the front (yet). but i can assure you if you look at the shaft that slides into the bushing and the inside of your bushings, you will see wear. you will need to lube them quite often (i would imagine every 6 months minimum) to ensure that they work as intended... hence the reason i am ditching them.

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Since I'm in the process of ordering Nismo bushings myself for the spare subframe I have, I managed to get these numbers from a worker @ Nissan.

NISMO SUBFRAME BUSHINGS
PT # 55400-RS590

NISMO REAR AXLE&LOWER CONTROL ARM LINK
PT# 55157-RS580

NISMO REAR SPINDLE BUSHING
PT# 55157-RS521

edit: deleted

[racepar1]

OK it's time for me to come in and clear up some shit here.

First off energy suspension has updated their design since 2004 (when this thread was started) and their tension rod bushings no longer crack control arms. They used to be soild one-piece bushings, which caused a lot of bind and cracked arms. Now they are a 3-piece design and work much better. Never buy solid urethane bushings for the tension rods no matter who makes them.

Second for the entire rest of the suspension urethane works ok. Not perfect, but ok. I have seen some rear arms break i think due to bushing bind though(a RUCA and a toe arm). I personally have urethane FLCA, RLCA, and rear upright bushings on my car still and I am happy with them. The key to urethane bushings is to keep them well lubed at all times. I installed zerk fittings on mine so that I can easily lube my bushings whenever I want. I HIGHLY reccomend that anyone installing urethane bushings does the zerk fittings. The urethane bushings seem to lose lube quickly (a couple months) and when they do they bind like hell. As long as my bushings are lubed I can compress my suspension all the way up with the shock dis-connected.

Third I would not reccomend the nismo bushings for any of the suspension arms. For subframes and mounts they are fine, but not for a suspension arm. The design of the nismo bushings inherently has more bind. The inner sleeve, bushing, and outer sleeve are all glued together. This means that for the suspension to move the bushing rubber has to twist. On top of that the nismo ones are a higher durometer rubber so they are even harder to witst then the stock ones. At least with a urethane bushing you have one free axis of movement. Anyone who does have the nismo or stock bushings in their arms please be sure to tighten all the suspension arms with the car on the ground. This will ensure that the bushing is in it's normal position at ride heighth and help eliminate some bind. With urethane bushings that is not necessary though.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Third I would not reccomend the nismo bushings for any of the suspension arms. For subframes and mounts they are fine, but not for a suspension arm. The design of the nismo bushings inherently has more bind. The inner sleeve, bushing, and outer sleeve are all glued together. This means that for the suspension to move the bushing rubber has to twist. On top of that the nismo ones are a higher durometer rubber so they are even harder to witst then the stock ones. At least with a urethane bushing you have one free axis of movement. Anyone who does have the nismo or stock bushings in their arms please be sure to tighten all the suspension arms with the car on the ground. This will ensure that the bushing is in it's normal position at ride heighth and help eliminate some bind. With urethane bushings that is not necessary though.

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

[Howard92884]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

I would also like to see how you did these grease zerks.

[Bigsyke]

If usually the ES only allows rotation on 1 axis, shouldnt the metal casing be rotating around the actual bolt? I would think as long as you use antiseize you shouldnt have too much of a binding issue.

I see rubber as more of an issue when the bolt seizes, such as the LCA. Those were torn because the bolt was seized to the casing, and the up/down movement was binding in the rubber.

I do reccommend ES LCA bushings, they work great.

[singlecamslam]

racepar what do you think about after tension rods like spl? they use spherical bearings.

[Hywarp161]

So do the 2 piece bushings from ES still have this problem?

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Hywarp161

So do the 2 piece bushings from ES still have this problem?

oh jesus. these are just from this page.

Originally Posted by racepar1

First off energy suspension has updated their design since 2004 (when this thread was started) and their tension rod bushings no longer crack control arms.

Originally Posted by orion::S14

The new T/C rod bushing are perfectly fine. They realized there was a problem, redesigned them, and they now allow the flex that's needed so your front LCA won't crack.

they are three piece by the way.

[Hywarp161]

[QUOTE=cdlong;2714289]oh jesus. these are just from this page.



Thanks, it was late and i may have missed a few posts. I have the 3 piece one's installed, i was just curious.

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Awesome.

My plan is, since I have this spare subframe, throw on ES bushings on one, Nismo bushings on the other.

Reading only does so much for me. Actually driving a car myself with different bushings allows me to decide for myself what I really want.

Greasing isn't really a problem to me since I don't drive the car often and after a certain point, I'll need something to work on anyway.

Hah.

I'm thinking the same thing, it would be interesting to have an S15 subframe with all solid components and then an s13 subframe with all nismo bushings. the problem is, i'de rather not have shit sitting around not getting used taking up precious space in my garage. but yeah, like you ide like to judge for myself.

Originally Posted by racepar1

The factory bushings are designed to flex, but it is restrictive to motion because of the design. A urethane bushing that is well greased will flex some and has one axis with very little restriction. I feel that is a better option as it reduces the bind in the suspension some. Bearings are always better, but are also very expensive.

I would say:

bearings > urethane > stock > nismo

The stock and the nismo are pretty close though because the nismo bushings lessen bushing flex in bad directions as well as good ones.

i disagree mostly with you're view because you're saying that the factory-style bushings (oe or nismo, doesnt matter) are restrictive - this is the point of the bushing, it not only acts as an insulator but also will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position. I dont see this as a problem at all. they're part of the suspension and they work as intended.

by the way, being that there are so many different part numbers for the same sized bushing (as i listed above), it would make sense that the difference is in the durometer of the bushings.. that some bushings in the arms or spindles should flex less while others should flex more.


here is a question for the pros... is it possible to use s13 rear shocks on Z32 rear spindles if you press in that metal stud that secures the s13 shock? that would be very trick. unfortunately, the only z32 spindles ive seen on s13s also use z32 shocks.

[xawax]

i just installed the ES 3-pc tension rod bushings in my stock tension rods. i am very happy with the difference it made in the ride of my 89' hatch. a few days earlier i switched to new agx's w/teins and the tension rod bushing made more of a difference in the ride than the springs and struts.

after this thread popped up i inspected the angle/bind on the bushings with the car on the ground and it was centered and didn't look like it was under any stress.

my guess is that on excessivly lowered cars, the geometry is already in a "stressed" setting and then when you hit a mean dip on the freeway, it gets pushed too far and something has to give. i would say even the old design bushings would not be a problem unless you are sitting on the ground, tuckin' rim.

[CrimsonRockett]

Awesome.

My plan is, since I have this spare subframe, throw on ES bushings on one, Nismo bushings on the other.

Reading only does so much for me. Actually driving a car myself with different bushings allows me to decide for myself what I really want.

Greasing isn't really a problem to me since I don't drive the car often and after a certain point, I'll need something to work on anyway.

Hah.

[Bigsyke]

dont you just drill/tap?

Take it even further by making a passage around the whole bushing in the center, chamfer/deburr the edges, and installing the zerk. This way your bushing gets a full 360 of grease, and its also like a reserve.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

The factory bushings are designed to flex, but it is restrictive to motion because of the design. A urethane bushing that is well greased will flex some and has one axis with very little restriction. I feel that is a better option as it reduces the bind in the suspension some. Bearings are always better, but are also very expensive.

I would say:

bearings > urethane > stock > nismo

The stock and the nismo are pretty close though because the nismo bushings lessen bushing flex in bad directions as well as good ones.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

I have some pics at home.

Originally Posted by Bigsyke

dont you just drill/tap?

Take it even further by making a passage around the whole bushing in the center, chamfer/deburr the edges, and installing the zerk. This way your bushing gets a full 360 of grease, and its also like a reserve.

I did it the quick way and it works alright. I just drilled and tapped. If I had it to do over again though I would spend more time chamfering the holes and I would use a dremel to make a spiral groove inside the bushing to distribute the grease better.

[gsracer]

For the z32 rear spindle Why dont you just machine an aluminum rod down to size and drill a hole in the middle of it, then press it into the z32 spindle. no bushing ,solid mount. If you grease it up well it shouldnt bind, the rear suspension only moves so much.

[s13tilldeath*]

o shit..... ill be checking mine now....

here we have it, pics showing the wear that occurs on the inside of the bushing. you can see wear marks on the shafts and chunking of polyurethane as it heats up from constant motion on the shaft.

edit: thats the rear LCA bushing.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

i disagree mostly with you're view because you're saying that the factory-style bushings (oe or nismo, doesnt matter) are restrictive - this is the point of the bushing, it not only acts as an insulator but also will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position. I dont see this as a problem at all. they're part of the suspension and they work as intended.

They are restrictive and you said it in your own post above.

"will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position"

If the bushing has tension on it and "springs" the arms back into their normal positions then they are restricting motion during radial movement of the bushing. The nismo bushings have a more ideal control over the axial movement of the bushing then either the stock or urethane's IMO, but it causes significant bind during radial movement. I would rather have a more free radial axis and some bind in the axial movement.

by the way, being that there are so many different part numbers for the same sized bushing (as i listed above), it would make sense that the difference is in the durometer of the bushings.. that some bushings in the arms or spindles should flex less while others should flex more.

Toatally true. I bet they do have different durometeers.

Originally Posted by ixfxi

here we have it, pics showing the wear that occurs on the inside of the bushing. you can see wear marks on the shafts and chunking of polyurethane as it heats up from constant motion on the shaft.

edit: thats the rear LCA bushing.

Mike those bushings were totally dry. Of course they got worn pretty badly. That is like me complaining about my motor blowing up if I didn't put any oil in it. The downside of urethane bushings is that they require maintenance, the stock/nismo ones don't.

[az_240]

^How long have you run those and what are you replacing them with?

they were all lubed when they were put in..

the problem is, no one ever removes them and inspects them. name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

[projectRDM]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

I know a guy. Lives in Atlanta. His name begins with an 'R'.

[aznpoopy]

i only know of one person. racepar. lol. the vast majority of people don't even know this this needs to be done.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

they were all lubed when they were put in..

the problem is, no one ever removes them and inspects them. name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

That is why you should install grease fittings in the bushings. It takes 10 minutes to grease mine up now. I know it's a bitch to grease the bushings manually. Don't get me wrong I don't blame you for not knowing the bushings needed maintenance though, this topic has only come to discussion here in the 240 community very recently. I am the first person that I know of that has ever installed zerk fittings on their urethane bushings in a 240sx.

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

i only know of one person. racepar. lol. the vast majority of people don't even know this this needs to be done.

I never actually did that, I installed grease fittings instead. I decided that taking them apart once and installing the grease fittings would make life a lot easier in the end.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Don't get me wrong I don't blame you for not knowing the bushings needed maintenance though, this topic has only come to discussion here in the 240 community very recently. I am the first person that I know of that has ever installed zerk fittings on their urethane bushings in a 240sx.

i knew they needed grease. i only used mine for year or two, not long at all. no matter, im ditching the shit and will put them up for sale.. im sure someone can make use of them.. they're still in usable condition.

even with the fittings, ide like to see how they look disassembled, cleaned and inspected. the ones that showed significant more wear than the others were the LCA bushings. the rest were okay, but you can still see wear on the shafts.