The Running Thread

[MisawaJason]

I'm down for that report.
Did my 5 miler last night. It was awesome

[xsidewayzx]

I feel really good and I just had to post that I just completed a 9 miler in my VFF. I was gonna do 6 only but my second wind kicked in so I kept going. I was afraid I was going to start cramping and start messing up my form but that didn't happen. When I was done I knew I had to really stretch out which I did. I know I'm gonna feel it tomorrow.

Just a reminder for Sunday to post your mileage and all that other good stuff.

[xsidewayzx]

Razor, when did you order your Zems? I ordered mine on monday the 28th and haven't received anything. Have you?

MisawaJason, whats your job if you don't mind me asking?

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by xsidewayzx

Razor, when did you order your Zems? I ordered mine on monday the 28th and haven't received anything. Have you?

MisawaJason, whats your job if you don't mind me asking?

I ordered mine that day you posted the link, I haven't recieved anything, not even a tracking number, I might have to look deeper into this.

I need to go running tonight and tomorrow, this week has been busy as eff, next week will be my full week for sure.

[MisawaJason]

Originally Posted by xsidewayzx

MisawaJason, whats your job if you don't mind me asking?

Civil Engineer, Electrical Power Production. The real world name for my job would be "generator mechanic" haha 3E072

[DALAZ_68]

Started the yr at 332, 1 month and 2 weeks later Im currently at 295 at 5'7"...

I currently can't see anyone else cryin about iim to big or pain...it is in ur mind most of it...and I only have 55% miniscus in one knee from high school Football...wether its running/jogging/walking/gym...theres a way...IMHO...

after the month and 2 weeks I can finally(at a slow pace) do 2.2 miles non stop(1 lap at the local reservoir)...which in the begining I couldnt even do a qtr...current goal is is 250...

averaging 4.4 miles before work...sometimes 6.6... days i dont work i try and hit 8.8...working my way to 11 miles...all i know is now, this time im just determined to keep doing it...i mainly focus on just eating right thru the days and plenty of water...

[MisawaJason]

1.) 29 miles
2.) Nike Lunarfly+
3.) Treadmill. I usually run at 2300 and it's too dark to safely run around the airfield. It's also been raining allot lately
4.) zero issues
5.) 8min/mile pace
6.) This week has been a good 7 rating. Had an awesome 9 rated run on the 3rd. Tonight the 6th is my scheduled night off from running, so I figured that I'd go ahead and post this

[DALAZ_68]

how do you guys generally know when its time to buy new shoes?


currently using Saucony Echelon 2's

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by DALAZ_68

how do you guys generally know when its time to buy new shoes?


currently using Saucony Echelon 2's

Recommended intervals are usually around 300 miles, or 3-6 months depending how much you run, Saucony's are awesome, they should last you quite some time.

[DALAZ_68]

thanks...im guessing the persons weight also is a factor?

[xsidewayzx]

1.) 27 miles
2.) Mainly Vibram Fivefingers KSO also used my Merrell Trail Gloves. Today I went BF
3.) I put most of the miles on the road, last 8 miles was in the trails
4.) When I went BF in the trails, I encountered alot of sharp rocks, my feet are fine
5.) 8:00 minutes plus or minus 30 seconds
6.) I rate my week with a 7, hopefully next week I can put more miles down, hit up more trails, and run BF more often.

Razor, I tried to email them but haven't received any response. I'll try calling them Monday to see what the deal is.

Misawa, thats cool. I thought you would be an Electronic Warfare Specialist, since USAF and USN started that job first. I'm currently reclassing to an EWO, first time for the Army.

For everyone else, if you got miles post them up!

[MisawaJason]

I'm currently deployed with the 101st. I work with the Bastogne Brigade Engineer Cell, a few doors down from the EWO guys. They're pretty cool, but I still have no idea what they do haha. 24 more days here in the Stan, then I'll start hitting up some trails at my homestation in Cali

[xsidewayzx]

Originally Posted by MisawaJason

I'm currently deployed with the 101st. I work with the Bastogne Brigade Engineer Cell, a few doors down from the EWO guys. They're pretty cool, but I still have no idea what they do haha. 24 more days here in the Stan, then I'll start hitting up some trails at my homestation in Cali

Sweet man, stay safe. Where you stationed at in Cali?

[MisawaJason]

Will do brother. I've done 24 trips out to our outlying cops and fobs, and am pretty sure that I'm done with that as my time here at Fenty is getting really short. Just passing time at this point.

I'm stationed at Vandenberg AFB. Near Lompoc, in Santa Barbara county. Where are you currently/stationed normally?

[xsidewayzx]

Fort Irwin, CA. I'm currently in Fort Sill, OK reclassing. Hoping to put more miles down since I have nothing else to do here.

[dahveed]

I wish I was stationed at vandenberg :'(

[raz0rbladez909]

Man I'm a little disappointed in my weekly mileage report, but i guess i gotta start slow with these vff's my body definitely doesn't want to adapt lol

1.) A whole whopping 9 miles lol
2.)Vibram Fivefingers KSO Trek's( gonna try my regular kso's next week
3.) All Miles were on roads
4.) No real issues, a litte bit of soreness, especially after my first day but constant stretching helps alot.
5.) 7:30 per mile
6.) I rate my week a 3 because I know its a dramatic change from regular running shoes and the only thing I can do is get better, I just need to focus on feedback versus trying to compete with myself at my peak. Overall I'm loving this, hopefully get others on the program.

Btw xsidewayzx i got my zem's in just now in the mail, they're really flexible but feel more like a dive booty than a running shoe. I'll wait to place judgement until I get to put some mileage on them. I got the splittoe ninja ones lol

[xsidewayzx]

My Zems came in. I figured you got yours, mine should be coming in.

[xsidewayzx]

So, I was looking more into my Zem shoes that I got. The soles on it seem like they would wear out quickly if I ran with them for a long period of time. Also, another thing I noticed was that the stretchy fabric connects to the sole on the bottom of the shoe. That means it will NOT last on a long distance run. Either way I still like them cuz they look like ninja shoes. I can use them for walking around the house or just walking in general.

[xsidewayzx]

It's Sunday. Post your mileage if you got any. If your planning on running today, post your mileage after your run.

So far we only have 3 Zilvia members posting mileage. I wanna see more!

Anyone doing the Warrior Dash?

[xsidewayzx]

Here's my report. I am very exhausted this week.

1.) 39.6 miles
2.) Vibram FiveFingers KSO/ Merrell Trail Gloves/Barefoot
3.) Road/Trail
4.) One of my runs I had to jump small gates and I landed on a rock right on my arch!
5.) 8:30 plus or minus 30 seconds
6.) I rate my week an 8, just cuz of the long distance. I did however manage to run a little more barefoot. I am really exhausted this week. Next week will be shorter, I'll be training up on speed and less distance.

[WagDatto]

I've held off on posting in this thread for a while to see if it developed. There was a premie thread I posted in a few times a long time ago, but I've since sold my KA'd Datsun and become more of a lurker lately.

Anyway, I've been an employee at Fleet Feet Sports in Fair Oaks and Roseville, CA for the past three and a half years, and learned quite a bit about proper shoe fit and running technologies. I offered advice to the premies in the thread, but everyone seemed so hardcore against foot analysis that I gave up.

While the "barefoot" craze has been huge recently, it's not to say that a lot of these principles haven't been in use for decades. A little technology:

A typical road running shoe will have a "toe ramp" of between 10-13mm. The toe ramp is the difference in height from heel to forefoot. If it's 25mm heel and 13mm forefoot, this gives you a 12mm toe ramp.

A minimalist running shoe will give you between 4-8mm in the toe ramp. "Oddly" enough, most racing flats give the same numbers.

A barefoot shoe will give 0-1mm toe ramp, depending on the style.

A lot of your success with the barefoot style running will depend on your biomechanics. Most people will fit into more of a stability category. That's not to say you CAN'T wear VFF's, but it isn't necessarily the best category for you, either. A barefoot shoe won't MAKE you run on your forefoot, but it does promote a midfoot-to-forefoot strike. The same technology is found in any sprinting track spike. The lack of cushion on the heel will try to tempt your foot closer to the ball.

That being said, a running shoe with a larger toe ramp will not MAKE you run on the heel. In fact, if you try to change your gait, I (and many other shoe fit analysts and specialists) will suggest focusing on running posture and form before changing your shoe type.

I'll post more when I get home tonight, time to clock out!!

[xsidewayzx]

Wag, good info. I thought of it as the minimalist shoe is really to protect your feet. Its the form that really counts. Hope to hear more from you!

[WagDatto]

A lot of people in this thread want to run in the barefoot style shoes, and I have nothing wrong with that. Everyone has a different thought on the subject, but if you want to run in something, just listen to your body. NOT everyone is Born to Run. Many foot instabilities are inherited from your family, and no amount of Nike Free is going to fix the fact that you have a flat foot. Period.

The biggest misconception I run into on a daily basis at my job (regarding Minimal/Barefoot shoes) is the thought that a Barefoot shoe will fix the fact that you pronate and have a flat foot. Also, the thought that a supportive shoe or insole will make your foot flatter or your ankles weaker. While a minimal shoe or VFF's will strengthen certain stabilizing muscles in the foot and lower leg, if you have a flat foot, nothing aside from surgery will fix that (as well as ruining your running career!)

Most people we deal with at work have a moderately shaped arch, with a small amount of movement from the arch, and pronation (inward movement) of their ankles. A small amount have a completely stable arch with no pronation, and on the other side of the spectrum are people with next-to-no arch with heavy pronation.

The "wet foot test" is a popular, but highly inaccurate measure of arch shape, movement and pronation. Honestly, it's hard to look down at your foot and see exactly what's going on. Even looking at my own foot after almost 4 years in the business, I can't really see what's going on. The best way to find out your foot type is to get yourself properly fitted at your local running store. A good store will know the terminology and be able to fit you... if they think pronation and biomechanics and gait are made up words, it's time to shop somewhere else! Get yourself fitted and explain any issues you're having with running, upcoming goals or races you want to train for, and even goals such as transitioning to a barefoot styled shoe. This gives me (us) a better idea of what type of shoe to put you in, and other recommendations we might have for you.

A good running store won't try to up-sell you on a shoe just to up our profits by $20, but we will try to inform you of things you'll need on a long run or through your upcoming training. I'm happy to see you walk out of the store buying nothing after informing you that the shoes you have on your feet have plenty of life left in them, and I'm happy to see you walk out the door with $400 of USEFUL equipment, too! I don't get paid on commission, and my coworkers and I are all runners and are in it for the love of the sport.

There are a large handful of people I would advise NOT to buy or wear VFF's or minimal shoes, but it comes down to the fact that you're going to do what you want, regardless of my suggestions. You need to listen to your body, though, whatever you decide on. If something hurts after a week or two of breaking in a shoe, it's not your fault, and most stores offer a generous return policy, assuming the problem you have is legitimate.

Transitioning into a barefoot or minimal style shoe is NOT an overnight switch. I'm trained by Vibram to tell you it should take nearly a year from start to finish, and until you get closer to the end of that year, it doesn't even include a Vibram branded shoe! From a typical running shoe, I'd advice training in a Neutral shoe to let your body adjust to not having as much medial post (pronation support), then train in a lightweight trainer after those start to wear out (3-6 months), and after a similar timespan (2-4 months since lightweight tends to have less durability), switch out your lightweights for a Minimal to adjust to less support (trimmed down heel cup, more flexible sole) and a lower toe ramp, and THEN after those, start supplementing some Barefoot shoes into the mix a day or two at a time throughout the week on your shorter, lower tempo days.

Vibram suggests using the above schedule for wearing their shoes, but everybody is going to follow their own timespan. We can only suggest doing something to lessen the stress on the lower body and decrease the chance for injury. Because the body has less protection as you get closer to the ground, the impact of your body (4-6x your body weight) will be harder on not only your joints, but also your bones. Stress fractures are NOT uncommon injuries in barefoot running, but make up much lower percentages of injury in a proper running shoe. Plantar Fasciitis is the other big one to look out for, and is a fairly popular injury for the barefoot guys out there, since the shoes allow for more stretch through the bottom of the foot, and less support allows that excess in flexibility turn into micro-tears through the fascia.

Me?! I was born with kind of an odd disorder... The muscles and tendons in the backs of my legs are overly tight, and the ones on the front of my legs are slightly looser. This gives my feet an exceptionally high and strong arch, low ankle flexibility, no movement from my ankles or arches... Which puts me in the "Neutral" shoe category. My body doesn't absorb shock properly because my arches aren't able to compress like they should (like a leaf spring suspension... dig it?!), so to compensate, I've always walked on my mid-to-forefoot, especially while running, I'm a toe runner. I have to fight the opposite direction as most, and focus my longer runs to land more flatfooted instead of making my calf work too hard and lead me to severe cramping and tightness... Brutal.

When they were released, I picked up a pair of MT10's from the New Balance Minimus line and I've been running in them. My typical running shoe has been the 1080 from New Balance (I've been in it since it was the 1060, 61, 62, 63, 64... now the 1080), and I'll still use that on a harder day, or on hills. With my foot type, I can wear anything from a big, heavily cushioned shoe like the 1080, or even use the VFF's because I already run forefooted anyway.... But I'm definitely more comfortable with more protection and cushion. Buuuut, I do like the "in-control" feeling I get from my MT10's!

I'll start in on the thread with some running journal entries soon! If anybody has question on shoes, life-span, nutrition, accessories, hydration... etc. Let me know!!

[xsidewayzx]

How much r ur minimus trails? Shipping?

[WagDatto]

PM me your size. I can hook it up. Retail is 100. But I can do better.

Same goes for the Kinvara, Mirage, Green Silence, Free Run... I don't get deals on VFFs, but hit me up for ny other shoe I'll do what I can!

[MisawaJason]

1.) 36 miles
2.) Nike Lunarfly+
3.) Treadmill.
4.) zero issues, except for it being hot as fuck in the gym two nights ago
5.) 8:30 min/mile pace
6.) This week has been a 7 rating.

[malofquist]

hey i made a 'barefoot and minimalist runners' group on facebook. if you wanna interact with others on topics like this type it in there, could use the traffic .

i've put about 50miles on my trail gloves so far, but yesterday i ran a 10-mile trail race and at mile 2(!!!) my left calf just cramped up! i was so pissed. is it the 'no heel raise'? i'd ran a 10-mile race last sunday too in them and nothing like that.

i don't fire my calves like this for them to cramps no matter the distant, intensity normally.

[malofquist]

i put >1500miles on a pair of nike 5.0s over last year. i replaced them with a pair of 3.0s and they're so much nicer!

[MisawaJason]

damn 1500 miles. Probably should've switched out a little before that huh? I'm probably going to end up buying some 3.0's when I get back to Cali