JWT vs Enthalpy ECU comparison dyno results!! *Another* 400 whp CodyAce Built Car

[SoSideways]

You can ask them to put them on there for you.

Not sure if there is an extra charge for it or not, but that stuff is all do-able on the eprom.

[mattsil80wis]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

You can ask them to put them on there for you.

Not sure if there is an extra charge for it or not, but that stuff is all do-able on the eprom.

they will put it on for an extra charge because it requires another board to control it all

[SoSideways]

Good to know.

Thanks!

[codyace]

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

all I was saying is think about it that it is all-- you car (codyace) sounded so good on the dyno as well. was that smoke or spark knock or what coming out your tail pipe?

Just raw fuel for the most part. They are a little on the fat side, but that's fine. Also, camera sensors pick up vapor, which would appear as 'smoke' on video.

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

the bottom line is codyace and some of the other ROM tuners are on their second or third engine. I am on my first and am happy. Of course I do not have the time to tear down and rebuild an engine every 6 - 8 months though.

It failed because one of those larger inlet manifold gromets pushed up around the injector (the pencil style don't hold those down). It simply melted a hole in that piston, and that one only. Other 3 had no detonation, and the rod bearings didn't have any heat/detonation beating marks. 20 psi, top of third, and it felt like a intercooler coupler ripped. Drove it home and everything. That poor motor lasted nearly 10,000 miles and a full summer of rocking the snot out of it at the track. I didn't owe it a dime, especially with how poorly I treat the engines. I build them for fun cars, not to daily drive...but it just so happens that they last too.

And yes, 3 years/20k track and street car. That's good enough for me.

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

I have a feeling if you had a Power FC you would be talking about how great they were and how no body should use anything else. Another guy in this thread shares my opinion on standalone systems. I am not bragging on my car and never said it was so great but you codyace- act like a 13 year old fast and furious RICER who had the remote taking away from them while playing Need for Speed.

Are you done trying yet? I wouldn't brag at all about a piggy back controller that does everything that a ROM can do. Heck CalumSult does everything as well too. So does NisTune! Both considerably cheaper than a PFC.

Plus, I would be bragging about my awesome tuner, not so much me. Either way, I'm sorry you take it as bragging, as my intention (which I've said 100x now, it's apparent you can't read) was to show that our top 2 ECU manufactuers make awesome setups for street cars. I never said PFC was junk, nor did I say any standalone was. Never. Again, you don't even read what people write, so I can accept that you honestly missed those posts. Bottom line is, for 98% of 400 hp SR20 owners, a Standalone is simply overkill for their setups. 500 bucks gets you a safe 400 hp? That's good enough for me.

I'm not trying to convince people to buy PFC over ROM or ROM over PFC - Again just showing the capability of our best Nissan Rom tuners in their current state.

Trust me, the last thing I'm concerned about is impressing you. Taking the remote away lol.



See you on track sometime? I'll give you a ride along too. I don't hold grudges. I'm at The Glen, Pocono, NJMP, Monticello all summer. Maybe I'll even go out to BeaverRun if you want to meet half way.

Originally Posted by 2fast4y0u

my enthalpy tune has a launch controller on it...dont know if i can do other maps but il let you know shortly.

NICE! I didn't know he offered them so that's awesome!!

Originally Posted by SoSideways

You can ask them to put them on there for you.

Not sure if there is an extra charge for it or not, but that stuff is all do-able on the eprom.

There probably is an extra charge (as matt said) they involve a seperate board as well.

[lflkajfj12123]

The only cool thing about the POWER FC is the little gameboy it comes with that you can like velcro to your dash or put it in a cup holder to look pretty.

[HemiCharger]

I got my PFC from the New Zea-land ebay site and it was less than 800 bucks delivered. iirc

I was not bragging either since I do not have much to brag about. I am on cosmetic stuff now. Have my Conti DWS tires with my r32 skyline wheels and just now need a front lip... anyone have a cool front lip for an s14 that they want to get rid of????

pm me

[jspaeth]

I like the PFC. I just recently bought datalogit, and it provides a nice environment for me to conveniently plug in my computer to the car and tinker with things and learn how everything works.

I would say if you REALLY are the kind of person (like I am) that wants to learn the whole EFI thing on your own and tinker with stuff in a safe and fun way, the PFC is really really nice.

To each his own.

Again, PFC costs more, but both units can (ultimately) do the same things, no problem.

PFC you can have an infinite number of tunes, saved to your computer, and with a click of a button, you reflash the whole tune to whichever version you want.


The past couple of nice weekends, I have been doing AFR tuning in all of the vaccuum--->0 boost cells, 1200-5000 RPM, with the intent of getting the AFRs smooth and nice and lean for cruising.

I datalog, get the results, make changes in a spreadsheet, copy and paste them into datalogit, save as a new file, and upload.

Then go out, drive, make changes, repeat.

It's really fun and educational!

[mattsil80wis]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I like the PFC. I just recently bought datalogit, and it provides a nice environment for me to conveniently plug in my computer to the car and tinker with things and learn how everything works.

I would say if you REALLY are the kind of person (like I am) that wants to learn the whole EFI thing on your own and tinker with stuff in a safe and fun way, the PFC is really really nice.

To each his own.

Again, PFC costs more, but both units can (ultimately) do the same things, no problem.

PFC you can have an infinite number of tunes, saved to your computer, and with a click of a button, you reflash the whole tune to whichever version you want.


The past couple of nice weekends, I have been doing AFR tuning in all of the vaccuum--->0 boost cells, 1200-5000 RPM, with the intent of getting the AFRs smooth and nice and lean for cruising.

I datalog, get the results, make changes in a spreadsheet, copy and paste them into datalogit, save as a new file, and upload.

Then go out, drive, make changes, repeat.

It's really fun and educational!

that is pretty sweet actually

but i know cody feels this way too, if i had the ability to change the tune, i would screw something up or push the limits of the tune to get more power out of it

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by mattsil80wis

that is pretty sweet actually

but i know cody feels this way too, if i had the ability to change the tune, i would screw something up or push the limits of the tune to get more power out of it

If you read up and do research, you are fine.

Gotta have proper stuff (knock sensor that oyu know works, wideband, laptop, etc.)

Make small changes, check, etc.

In terms of "light load" portion of the map, there isn't a whole lot you can mess am.

I am on a MAP sensor, so top part of the map (negative pressures) are not going to have a flow much different than OEM, so I am using OEM-ish timing....

I log AFR, divide it by target AFR, then scale the injector open time by that percent.

Iterate, more data, check.


Compared to when my car was "tuned" professionally, my AFRs are way 1) Smoother and B) leaner (in a good way, for economy) than they were when it came off being tuned.


Before, the AFRs were all over the place from cell to cell, now they are pretty damn smooth

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

If you read up and do research, you are fine.

Gotta have proper stuff (knock sensor that oyu know works, wideband, laptop, etc.)

Make small changes, check, etc.

In terms of "light load" portion of the map, there isn't a whole lot you can mess am.

I am on a MAP sensor, so top part of the map (negative pressures) are not going to have a flow much different than OEM, so I am using OEM-ish timing....

I log AFR, divide it by target AFR, then scale the injector open time by that percent.

Iterate, more data, check.


Compared to when my car was "tuned" professionally, my AFRs are way 1) Smoother and B) leaner (in a good way, for economy) than they were when it came off being tuned.


Before, the AFRs were all over the place from cell to cell, now they are pretty damn smooth

do you have comparable mods to what I run? I might be interested in learning your method of tuning and how you smoothed it out? Tuning is the key to everything. With the right tune you can get engine longevity and gas mileage. You have them saved as .bin files or what? and do you have a website that talks about this? thanks

[mattsil80wis]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

If you read up and do research, you are fine.

Gotta have proper stuff (knock sensor that oyu know works, wideband, laptop, etc.)

Make small changes, check, etc.

In terms of "light load" portion of the map, there isn't a whole lot you can mess am.

I am on a MAP sensor, so top part of the map (negative pressures) are not going to have a flow much different than OEM, so I am using OEM-ish timing....

I log AFR, divide it by target AFR, then scale the injector open time by that percent.

Iterate, more data, check.


Compared to when my car was "tuned" professionally, my AFRs are way 1) Smoother and B) leaner (in a good way, for economy) than they were when it came off being tuned.


Before, the AFRs were all over the place from cell to cell, now they are pretty damn smooth

its comments like this that i actually like coming on to this forum for...where ppl say intelligent information that help ppl with what they need

maybe when i become a baller ill buy a standalone and let you tune it

ps where in s jerz you from? im from hackensack (also have a house by seaside heights) we gotta meet up sometime

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

do you have comparable mods to what I run? I might be interested in learning your method of tuning and how you smoothed it out? Tuning is the key to everything. With the right tune you can get engine longevity and gas mileage. You have them saved as .bin files or what? and do you have a website that talks about this? thanks

Not sure what tour mods are....by no means am I an "expert"

Heck, i literally have NEVER tuned my car on a dyno.

Taking baby steps though. I have read about (probably total of 50+ hours) the PFC on all kinds of forums (Skyline, Celica, RX7, etc) to learn how EVERY possible thing on it functions.

Now that I know HOW it works, I am starting to put it into action. Simplest thing you can do without breaking shit is to make small fuel adjustments.

Without a dyno to hold steady state, you can't really do AFR tuning of load cells, but you can do a decent job of hitting the vacuum part of the map if you are very careful with the throttle, and SLOWLY sweep through all of the different cells.

Anyway, we can discuss this through PM or another thread.

Originally Posted by mattsil80wis

its comments like this that i actually like coming on to this forum for...where ppl say intelligent information that help ppl with what they need

maybe when i become a baller ill buy a standalone and let you tune it

ps where in s jerz you from? im from hackensack (also have a house by seaside heights) we gotta meet up sometime

I have been trying to meet up with Cody for a meet or just to put a face to the name and have a beer or something, but he is pretty busy.

Yeah, I would totally be down to meet up some time. I am in the central jersey area, about 15 minutes north of trenton.

Trust me, you wouldn;'t want me to tune your car, I have NO experience.

I feel like I have a really good grasp on the theory after many (over 50) hours of reading, but am just now starting to put it into action.

I have a crazy fuel issue that has been nagging me (talked to Cody about it...), once I fix that and make sure my fuel setup is 100% flawless, I may do some dyno tuning myself for the first time!

[mattsil80wis]

took it to PM so i didnt fill the thread with nonsense

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by mattsil80wis

took it to PM so i didnt fill the thread with nonsense

x2 -- my tune is spot on to Shell V Power 93 anything else and it wants to spark knock under certain loads. That is what I had it tuned on and that is what she likes. No other fuel is quite as good as it but it is all around me right now. I will hit you up on pm. Yeah I definitely do not want to screw around with it too much thansk

[4x4le]

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

x2 -- my tune is spot on to Shell V Power 93 anything else and it wants to spark knock under certain loads. That is what I had it tuned on and that is what she likes. No other fuel is quite as good as it but it is all around me right now. I will hit you up on pm. Yeah I definitely do not want to screw around with it too much thansk

Please define this spark knock.... To me that is another word for detenation, but is that what your meaning by it? Or are you getting blow out? Do you see signs of detenation on your plugs? What is making you think you have detenation? Is it audible? Or are you feeling something (shouldnt be able to do unless its severe) or is your hand commander or whatever saying you have it? Either way, shell is great gas but you are tuned on the ragged edge if you have detenation with all other brands of fuel, but your power numbers do not reflect a tune on the ragged edge.


There is something else I have seen that seems to be pretty common in this thread that I as a tuner dont like to see. People tuning off of knock sensors. They are not 100% reliable. They are great for putting a little fear in you, such as if you just filled up with fuel and you see your knock % raise then that fuel might be bad. However they do miss allot of legit knock and they pick up on allot of phantom knock. There are many different tools and methods for listening to knock. My suggestion to anyone doing their own tuning (especially if you incest on doing some street tuning) would be to run an overly safe timing map and start out rich on your fuel map taking fuel out as needed. Get your afr's smooth and in check and then hit the dyno. If your tuning on pump gas I would recomend a listening device of some sort. If your on a detenation resistant fuel you still really need to just pay attention to the tq curve (as you need to on any fuel). Watching the tq curve is major. If it goes down in a spot and then back up you should lower the timing there to see if it goes back up. If it goes down you might need more timing. It can also be caused by other things too. Like on the graph I posted of my run you see the tq drop off at 6300 and come back up around 6900, I did not overlay my boost on that graph I posted but if I were to add that you would see that the boost spiked up about 1 psi at 6900 giving it an odd curve. That is acceptible because there was most likely allot of back pressure at that point and the internal gate can only do so much.

My point is dont take knock sensor reading with a grain of salt if your getting them, but dont rely on them and dont expect them to work when its most important. Please do not base your tune off of a knock sensor.

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Please define this spark knock.... To me that is another word for detenation, but is that what your meaning by it? Or are you getting blow out? Do you see signs of detenation on your plugs? What is making you think you have detenation? Is it audible? Or are you feeling something (shouldnt be able to do unless its severe) or is your hand commander or whatever saying you have it? Either way, shell is great gas but you are tuned on the ragged edge if you have detenation with all other brands of fuel, but your power numbers do not reflect a tune on the ragged edge.


There is something else I have seen that seems to be pretty common in this thread that I as a tuner dont like to see. People tuning off of knock sensors. They are not 100% reliable. They are great for putting a little fear in you, such as if you just filled up with fuel and you see your knock % raise then that fuel might be bad. However they do miss allot of legit knock and they pick up on allot of phantom knock. There are many different tools and methods for listening to knock. My suggestion to anyone doing their own tuning (especially if you incest on doing some street tuning) would be to run an overly safe timing map and start out rich on your fuel map taking fuel out as needed. Get your afr's smooth and in check and then hit the dyno. If your tuning on pump gas I would recomend a listening device of some sort. If your on a detenation resistant fuel you still really need to just pay attention to the tq curve (as you need to on any fuel). Watching the tq curve is major. If it goes down in a spot and then back up you should lower the timing there to see if it goes back up. If it goes down you might need more timing. It can also be caused by other things too. Like on the graph I posted of my run you see the tq drop off at 6300 and come back up around 6900, I did not overlay my boost on that graph I posted but if I were to add that you would see that the boost spiked up about 1 psi at 6900 giving it an odd curve. That is acceptible because there was most likely allot of back pressure at that point and the internal gate can only do so much.

My point is dont take knock sensor reading with a grain of salt if your getting them, but dont rely on them and dont expect them to work when its most important. Please do not base your tune off of a knock sensor.

I know what you are talking about on the knock sensor thing. I ran an oil sandwich plate for my oil sending unit gauge and the knock sensor would pick up rattles from my oil sandwich plate. I switched to the Nisport adapter and my knock count went way down. I refer to spark knock as detonation they are the same. When you hear a supersonic ping and fire comes out your tailpipe you know to get off of it. I have only experencied it a couple of times when I went to BP 93 since you would think all 93s would be the same. I have found there are differences in fuel grades and sometimes containment get into fuel even the supreme stuff. This can lead to detonation especially on my car -- I switch it to wastegate low boost on my greddy profec and run it out then run shell 93. I really have never had any problems with the shell 93 gas other brands sometimes mix ethanol with their high grades and I think this screws around with my tune and it does not know what to do with the e85 shit.

Yes I know spark blow out cause I have had that too. It happened when I did not regap my BKr7e-11s to .028 or whatever. I regapped my plugs and all is good. I have also found that differences in temperature and load make a difference in performance. I really do not want to kill my engine so I will get off it or not run it under full load when it starts to detonate due to bad gas or whatever. The PC gives a knock count and from what I have read anything over 60 is a bad thing and the CEL flashes like crazy.....

[jspaeth]

If you were detonating, why would you be shooting flames?

(Seriously, I don't know why....I would think of you detonate, you are igniting TOO early, and most of the fuel should get burned up (no flame shooting)).

Generally, I see my knock count right around 20 during hard pulls.

It increases with RPM....used to be lower, but when I added higher lift cams and stiffer springs, it went up a LITTLE.

Every once in a while, I will see some knock in the 30s and VERY rarely get a blip in the 50s.


Sometimes, the high knock counts come during shifts and can be caused by piston slap (or so I have heard).

I only HEARD actual knocking one time, and that was bc I mis-calibrated my boost controller and overboosted like 2-3 psi above where my car was tuned for.

[2fast4y0u]

yeah, Enthalpy makes it so its not on the clutch switch. he does speed to a certain MPH and then it turns off automatically.

[2fast4y0u]

update: talked to my good friend at Enthalpy today. they can do 2 tunes...pump gas race gas, pump gas e85...which ever combo you want. selectable through a simple switch.

cant wait to try that out. race gas, here i come.

[SoSideways]

If they have ethanol in it, your car shouldn't be detonating just due to the fact that ethanol has a much higher tolerance to not detonating.

Your gas mileage will suffer a little, but you shouldn't be blowing anything up.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

If they have ethanol in it, your car shouldn't be detonating just due to the fact that ethanol has a much higher tolerance to not detonating.

Your gas mileage will suffer a little, but you shouldn't be blowing anything up.

That is not necessarily true.

Because when you DO tune for ethanol, from a volumetric standpoint, you need to inject MORE of it than gasoline....

So, actually, I would expect running 10% ethanol gasoline to maybe cause problems.

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

That is not necessarily true.

Because when you DO tune for ethanol, from a volumetric standpoint, you need to inject MORE of it than gasoline....

So, actually, I would expect running 10% ethanol gasoline to maybe cause problems.

It is the only thing that makes since. I have filled up with 93 octane and those I have had trouble with are ethanol blends of 10-15 percent per volume. The higher octane fuels without ethanol such as shell's v power I have not had any trouble and if you could find some Amoco 103 fuels I am sure it would do even better. Factory tuned SR20DETs where meant to run on 98+ Fuels.

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

It is the only thing that makes since. I have filled up with 93 octane and those I have had trouble with are ethanol blends of 10-15 percent per volume. The higher octane fuels without ethanol such as shell's v power I have not had any trouble and if you could find some Amoco 103 fuels I am sure it would do even better. Factory tuned SR20DETs where meant to run on 98+ Fuels.

98+ fuels is in terms of Japanese octane rating, which is not the same US.

93 octane is PERFECTLY fine.


And yes, the 10-15% ethanol blend COULD cause knock if you were tuned on 93 octane and let's say tuned very aggressively.


You COULD use a gasoline/ethanol mixture, but the volume of ethanol required to combust all of the air is more than for gasoline....


So....when you get that 10% ethanol blend, your car's injectors are injecting a certain amount, bc this is based on it being pure gasoline.

In order to achieve the same combustion as if it WERE all gasoline, that volume of ethanol that is now being injected in each "burst" would actually need to be larger than it is, to account for the fact that it is ethanol and not gasoline.


In practice, with a standalone, if you get a bad tank of gas or get some ethanol, you could just go in to your setting and add an extra ~5% fuel to take care of this....

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

the 10-15% ethanol blend COULD cause knock if you were tuned on 93 octane and let's say tuned very aggressively.

I do not know what you mean by aggressive? High boost for me is around 17.5-18 lbs and that is only when I had trouble even with the blended gas boosting at low levels or waste-gate 8 lbs it never would knock. Only up top on high boost when I had blended gas in the car.

[2fast4y0u]

my knock sensor must not work...i have NEVER seen knock on my afc settings and i do have it hooked up. even under hard pulls pushing 19 psi with 11.8 afr. no knock at all...reading anyway, not sure in actuality. doesnt sounds like there is

[HemiCharger]

Power FC is there a way to lock or password protect your tune so some Dickhead at a car show or whatever does not come along and play pac man with you commander? or just disconnect the commander before the show?

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by HemiCharger

Power FC is there a way to lock or password protect your tune so some Dickhead at a car show or whatever does not come along and play pac man with you commander? or just disconnect the commander before the show?

Honestly, you can just unplug it....but let's try to keep the convo on topic...we are really killing this thread hahaha

[HemiCharger]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Honestly, you can just unplug it....but let's try to keep the convo on topic...we are really killing this thread hahaha

yeah thanks

[4x4le]

the talk about ethonal in the gas i really would like to chime in on. the theory about the need for more fuel to burn the air when ethonal is involved is correct, but as long as your richer than 14.7 on a o2 sensor calabrated for gasoline, all of the oxygen has been burnt. when you run rich during boost that extra fuel is mearly there to cool the cylender. since ethonal is far superior for cooling than gas the 10-15% will negate itself (always).

now lets talk about octain ratings. if you read at the pump it will say minium octain rating. what that means is it can be higher but cannot be lower than advertised (just like treadwear ratings on tires). your shell gas in your area could possibly be 94 or 95 and when you switch to other brands they might just be closer to their advertised rating.

i have found that the best gas in my area comes from a station advertising it as 92 but it kickes every other stations butt for detenation suppression.


i find it funny most people blame ethonal for everything and try to find gas with no ethonal in it, while i would love to find some ethonal with no gas in it. how can ethonal be the reason i make such good power while at the same time its the reason others complain of trouble?

my best suggestion would be to find the best gas you can, with the most ethonal as you can and tune from there.



Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

i find it funny most people blame ethonal for everything and try to find gas with no ethonal in it, while i would love to find some ethonal with no gas in it. how can ethonal be the reason i make such good power while at the same time its the reason others complain of trouble?

This is only true if you are tuned for it, and when you do, you need to inject more ethanol than gasoline, (volume).

So, ethanol is all fine and dandy, IF YOU can know how much ethanol % is in the fuel.


Tune for ethanol or 15% ethanol. and get a gas with MORE gasoline, you are okay.

Tune for pure gasoline and get ethanol in there = POSSIBLE problems