SRT-4. Cool car, but what the hell!?

[Jeff240sx]

My friend just bought an '04 SRT-4. 230hp.
2.4L Inline 4 cylinder. 87.5mm bore and some stroke that's actually longer than a KA's. 101mm! 6000rpm redline, 230hp at 14-15psi.
On the '03, the stage 1 upgrade kit comes with injectors and ecu. $300 for 240hp. The '04 is $300 for the stage 1 upgrade kit, and only comes with the ecu for 240hp. It comes with the injectors stock, and makes 230hp. It also bumps redline up to 6200rpm. That's only a minor irritation..
'04 and Stage 1 kits come with 577cc/min injectors. 55# injectors! That's a shitload of fuel for 240hp. But then the stage 2 kit comes with ANOTHER set of injectors. Bumped up to 682cc injectors for 260hp/280tq. 65# injectors for that low power? It could be done on 370cc (35#) injectors. The redline also gets bumped to 6500rpm.
So basically.. why does Dodge put so large of injectors on this 2.4L stock? And for those who don't think that larger turbos can make more power on less boost.. take this 2.4L with a tiny turbo, 15psi is 230hp. A KA 2.4L, t3/4 turbo at 6psi is 230hp.
Anyway.. just ranting about injector sizes...
-Jeff

[AKADriver]

The Neon has a returnless fuel system, so the actual fuel flow through those large injectors may be less than you'd expect.

They do apparently run very rich under boost, though.

The result of the Stage 1 kit is more than 240hp, that's just all they advertise. The main purpose of Stage 1 is boost response, though. It gets rid of the high rpm boost taper and changes some other little things.

[mjjstang]

my views are that it is a nice car for what it is. but the people that go buy it are people that want to go fast but really dont know much about the actual engine and stuff, well at least the people I know. maybe your friend is different. so the people get the stage kits. they dont have to do it and its under warrenty. they dont really know whats goin on. but dodge just gives you some new parts so you can be like, yah man I got upgraded injectors tuned ecu and all that shit, yah man what can I say im a tuner. at least thats my experience with buyers of the srt-4

[old_s13]

who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by old_s13

who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels

Bullshit.

The Neon platform is one of the BETTER engineered small cars. People see the cheesy interior plastic, look at the reliability records of models from 10 years ago, and deem it crap. Pure bullshit. Yeah, it's FF. So what, so are 99% of the cars on the road.

My standard 2400lb '95 Neon had all sorts of bits that other small cars have to go through swaps and conversions to have. 4 wheel disc with 10" rotors, 2.0L DOHC, tight gearing, fast-ratio steering (~2.5 turns lock to lock), 2.5" mandrel-bent exhaust STOCK, yadda yadda... Yeah, the 240SX has all that, too, but the 240SX cost about twice what my car did when they were new.

So in the SRT-4, they take this car, and give it a 2.4L that's built like a shit brickhouse... 1200hp on the stock crank, block, bedplate... yeah, it's been done.

My only gripe is that the suspension/brakes of the SRT-4 are a little weaksauce compared to the engine, but they wanted something to come in cheap for the typical street driver. It needs stiffer dampers, bigger rotors with 4-piston front calipers, and wider wheels to match the power. All that's fairly easy to do, though.

[old_s13]

Originally Posted by AKADriver

Bullshit.

The Neon platform is one of the BETTER engineered small cars. People see the cheesy interior plastic, look at the reliability records of models from 10 years ago, and deem it crap. Pure bullshit. Yeah, it's FF. So what, so are 99% of the cars on the road.

My standard 2400lb '95 Neon had all sorts of bits that other small cars have to go through swaps and conversions to have. 4 wheel disc with 10" rotors, 2.0L DOHC, tight gearing, fast-ratio steering (~2.5 turns lock to lock), 2.5" mandrel-bent exhaust STOCK, yadda yadda... Yeah, the 240SX has all that, too, but the 240SX cost about twice what my car did when they were new.

So in the SRT-4, they take this car, and give it a 2.4L that's built like a shit brickhouse... 1200hp on the stock crank, block, bedplate... yeah, it's been done.

My only gripe is that the suspension/brakes of the SRT-4 are a little weaksauce compared to the engine, but they wanted something to come in cheap for the typical street driver. It needs stiffer dampers, bigger rotors with 4-piston front calipers, and wider wheels to match the power. All that's fairly easy to do, though.

dodge.....

neon.....

srt4? 230HP? 240HP? 300HP? 1200HP?

who cares -- the car is crap.

-----------------------------------------------------

On a more serious note, who wants to own a car that is shoddily slapped together? Lets just compare our oldest 1990 NISSAN S13 240SX which doesnt have airbag:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/1048.html

to a 2003 Dodge NEON:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2303.html

Wow, our old POS scores better than the new NEON in terms of safety.

Call me negative.. call me a hater.. but I just cant accept a car that was built with stupidity. Why am I saying this?

Simple.

The Dodge NEON SRT4 wasnt created for enthusiasts, it was created to attempt to compete and steal business away from OTHER manufacturers that already have loyal following. Which cars? Ah yes, the WRX and EVO.. two cars which actually have prestige and following. The SRT4 was developed with the SAME goal Ford had when they made the PROBE -- to steal business away from other companies by selling something less expensive.

Why buy a 240SX when you can buy a Probe?

Why buy a WRX or EVO when you can buy a NEON SRT-4?

Like I said...

who cares -- its a crap car

[AKADriver]

Mike, why are you being such an ignorant ass today? Lighten up. It's just a car, and a damn good one at that. Dodge Neon. Yeah. So what? Why does it matter whose badge is on the back? Open your eyes.

The SRT-4 was not created for enthusiasts? Then why did Dodge invite my friend, who had a 13-second Neon drag car, to tour the PVO engineering facility back in 2002 before it was released? The original Neon SRT concept car from 2000 was built to show off the aftermarket potential of the 2nd gen chassis to enthusiasts - and this was done before it was announced that the WRX would be coming here. The Dodge PVO guys that designed it are all car guys like us that just happened to get jobs with Mopar. Heritage - the Neon has 9 years of racing victories under its belt, it was campaigned as an SCCA club racer from DAY ONE. There's been a Neon ACR in the USA as long as there's been an Impreza WRX in Japan. There were Dodge turbo cars tearing up the streets ever since honeys was wearin' Sassoon. Open your eyes to them. They're out there.

Has the SRT-4 roped in a lot of import buyers? Yeah, it did, that's how it managed to get past the marketing guys. But it was originally created BY and FOR a group of serious domestic FWD performance car enthusiasts whose existence you simply choose to ignore. Neons.org has 14,833 members strong, and that's a SHITTY forum, hahaha.

[DRFT]

hahaahahaha

[boostedhotness]

all i have to say is that it is still a neon. it will never be a hot rear wheel drive. low cost car.

[kazuo]

boohoo waaa waaa

Try driving a SRT4 and then come back here and tell me that it is a piece of junk.

Especially for the price, you can't really beat that when it comes to purchasing a new car...

[nightwalker]

I took a look at the suspension on those neons... crap! Dodge cut corners everywhere. (That's really all I care about anyways)

...just an odd tidbit... why do you get power windows in the front, but not in the rear?

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by nightwalker

I took a look at the suspension on those neons... crap! Dodge cut corners everywhere. (That's really all I care about anyways)

...just an odd tidbit... why do you get power windows in the front, but not in the rear?

The suspension is better than most FWD cars, especially in the second gen. McPherson strut on all four corners is nothing special, but it's better than the torsion beam most FWD cars (Jetta, Corolla, etc.) use. The first gen suffers from a lack of travel, the second gen has an extra inch all around. It's no double-wishbone Honda Civic, but it's functional.

No Neon has ever had rear power windows. I don't know why. I'd rather have manual all the way around.

[matlock]

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track , Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally Posted by matlock

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track , Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

I have seen a lot of Neons doing well at AutoXs.

I still think the car is ugly as sin. And isn't it already 240hp at the wheels stock, and they just lid about the figures?

[Jeff240sx]

Originally Posted by matlock

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track , Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

Dunno. Quaife differential stock says alot about it's handling. And places it up with the Acura Integra Type-R and a few other great handling Quaife-diff FWD cars.
-Jeff

[ryan hagen]

Originally Posted by matlock

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track , Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

"who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels" olds13


yall need to get with it, if it aint nissan it sucks......j/k this srt4 doenst sound bad, altough i feel it to be ugly. i would personally not buy one, but vs. a stock 240 it seems to ahve alot going for it. especailly where i am there are no mountains and very good drieing roads that dont resulat in a fall into a deep ditch with trees.........ugly car, yes, fast car yes, good handleing, its seems pretty good, i think scc even made it the car of the year 2 years ago? i remember they wanted to revoke it due to the crossfire/dione(sp) comercial

[brianglawson]

when a new neon comes out on a completely different chassis, that has some benz influence i might look at it, chrysler quality was shitty under chrysler but benz is bringing them out fast....but until then, its a neon, and i wouldnt think of owning it, but i will give it to it, it is a good BANG for the buck......but thats also the reason i wouldnt want it, hearing hte bang of a rod going through the block.....lol

[old_s13]

Neons.org has 14,833 members strong, and that's a SHITTY forum, hahaha.

Yeah well.. the 240SX community has a lot of "members" too -- that doesnt make a difference to me. I liked the 240SX community when we had LESS members and BETTER cars and SMARTER owners.

Nowadays, these car lists are filled with fuckin Takumi wanna-beez and drift-kings who slam their cars into curbs and feel proud fucking up their precious cars.

I really dont care.. I know that my car is getting TLC.. I know plenty of NISSAN enthusiasts who do the same. What I am against, are band wagoneering bastards who buy cars because they are new and trendy.

NEON huh? Great car. I think I am going to sell my S13 and move over to the in-crowd. You were right.. much better car and nice community. I'll subscribe to honda-tech too while I'm at it.

[AKADriver]

I'm not saying they're 14,000 cool guys. Most of them are total asses, actually. Like I said, SHITTY forum. But, they're there - domestic sport compact enthusiasts that want the SRT-4 because it's an SRT-4, not because it's like a knockoff WRX.

I'm driving the original wannabe ride now. I don't care. Like you said, I know my Honda is getting TLC. My Nissan, too, even though it's not in my hands anymore - a good friend bought it and is daily driving it now. Who cares about the hype? Drive what you like, and give credit where it's due.

There are two sides to seeing through the hype. Not every overhyped car is really shit. Not every car that's underground kewl is really all that good.

By the way...

<-- honda-tech member for 518 days I only read the road race/autocross forum. A bunch of other former/current Zilvia members there, too.

[JagdStealth]

Originally Posted by old_s13

i like bmw -- they sell excellent sport sedans regardless of how over-engineered I think they are.

i dont like mercedes not because they are a bad company.. whatever, they sell damn good cars.. but fuck, they got too much history with the holocaust so i think some of you can understand one's reasoning for not wanting a mercedes

BMW is a German company too...I'm confused by what you're saying. BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche all played very alrge parts in the manufacturing of products for the Nazi war machine.

i am interested to learn more about.. but i wont comment until i get more exposure on it.

Just beacue you don't like FWD and power (I don't either), that doesn't mean it's a bad car. I suppose ignorance is bliss though, I can agree with that!

240SX over here was nothing more than competition for the Integra/prelude/Celica market in the 80s and early 90s. I'd put money on SRT4 vs. a stock 240SX any year, even on the skid pad. We already know that Neon ACRs kill most cars in class in AutoX, including the stock 240SX.

[ONYX S-13]

Originally Posted by JagdStealth

I'd put money on SRT4 vs. a stock 240SX any year, even on the skid pad. We already know that Neon ACRs kill most cars in class in AutoX, including the stock 240SX.

Yeah but who keeps their 240 stock if they are into competition racing (Drag,Road,AutoX,Etc)...After just minor suspension mods the 240 will dominate over the T4..

[Var]

it could handle better but it has 0 camber cause it's pushing a lotta power to the front wheels. plus it's built for people that cant afford lan evo's and stuff and mostly for people that want a good amount of power. I think chrysler is hella smart for building it. What else manufacturer is smart enough to build a car that appeals to the young majority AND be ahead of the aftermarket companies by releasing their own brand name performance parts that are still under warranty and smog legal. The best part about the car..it doesnt have a muffler which i think is pretty cool . It's so in the spirit of imports, but it's a domestic.

[ONYX S-13]

Personaly i can never see myself owning one...The styling is complete garbage..Just can never see myself driving one..Plus i've own 2 rwd cars and 1 fwd and i can say this..I've had more fun in the RWDs then the FWD's and that's what i like most about driving..The fun factor definetly has to be there...It's kinda like an outlet for me especially when I need to blow off some steam..FWD's just can't do that for me...The main thing that i like at the T4 is that it sounds super good...I can listen to that car all day.

[old_s13]

domestic sport compact enthusiasts that want the SRT-4 because it's an SRT-4, not because it's like a knockoff WRX.

I've read through a fair amount of message boards, from lowbuck 240SX boards.. to 240Z boards.. to NSX boards.. to Ferrari boards.. after a while, you start to get a feel for what type of people buy what type of car. When I read on Ford Probe/MX6 boards, its quite apparent that these people bought their cars for whatever personal reasons -- obviously, they didnt ALL say "sure Ide love an S13 but now I am getting a Probe," that is hardly the case.

If people get enjoyment out of driving the SRT4, great. As you can see, there are even GEO STORM enthusiast boards.. another car which I would add to my list of cars that are "crap cars" regardless of what poeple do with them, or do to them. The Dodge Neon is no exception, its still a very wack car that has no heritage and in my eyes, will always be.. crap. If someone can find enjoyment out of that car, great. If someone can kick a Ferrari's ass with an SRT4 and compete in autocross, Great! If the cars end up being very reliable and built SOLID AS A ROCK, THEN GREAT!

All I can say is that people ALWAYS appreciate cars that are old and taken care of. The chances of this car making it into the history books is slim. Hence one of the reasons the ECLIPSE isnt as appreciated as it once used to be. BUT, you'll always see people saying "hey nice 240Z!" or "hey nice S13" -- there's much more value in owning a car besides the specs it puts down on paper. For me, heritage is where its at. Owning a car made by a manufacturer with heritage. If you talk domestic, atleast talk OLD domestics that have history under their belts.

[Hawd]

Well put together death trap. Apparently from what I hear the neon's safety is crap and alot of people are dying in accidents as a result from the poor safety rating of the TURBO neon. I'm going by what I heard and I don't feel like searching for facts to back it up.

[AKADriver]

Originally Posted by Hawd

Well put together death trap. Apparently from what I hear the neon's safety is crap and alot of people are dying in accidents as a result from the poor safety rating of the TURBO neon. I'm going by what I heard and I don't feel like searching for facts to back it up.

Patently false.

Its safety ratings are mid-pack for compact sedans. In IIHS tests they remarked that body head and trunk protection was excellent, not much dummy movement, but it got less than perfect scores because the dashboard folded in towards the dummy's knee. You will not die from driving this car. I drove an older Neon for two years and I'm still here!

It's also got lots of active safety - good handling and braking to get you out of a crash.

Mike, most of the open-minded car guys I know respect and remember the Neon ACR, and it's 9 years old now. The SRT-4 will be remembered, if not by you.

[old_s13]

Mike, most of the open-minded car guys I know respect and remember the Neon ACR, and it's 9 years old now. The SRT-4 will be remembered, if not by you.

Wow.. very classic.. very beautiful.. so historic and SO prestigious! I cant wait to sell my car and get a NEON ACR. It will look so nice sitting to my NEON SRT-4. Everything from its wonderful interior, to its fantastic exterior.. even the tail lights and headlights -- they SCREAM "beauty."

NO. The answer is NO AKADRIVER. You need to understand when something sucks, it sucks. Sell it and buy a better car...

[AKADriver]

Except it doesn't suck. You need to understand that you're being nothing but closed-minded and stupid about this car.

[AAA240SX]

HEY! No pighting hur my prendz...We keep it str8t off da hizzle wit mah baybee mizzles!
Each person has their own passion for cars. For us on this forum: It's Nissans. For others its whatever. Some for example think both are str8t...

Also each car has it's advantages and each car has it's disadvantages.

The SRT-4 is an excellent platform for speed, yet it's not visually appealing. I'll stick with my Nissan.

[Bliss]

So your main reason for not liking it is because there's no heritage?? So I take it you're not into new things, inventions, etc...?? That makes no sense to me. You have to START somewhere, and I think Dodge did an awesome job. I think this could be the beginning of some seriously fast compacts that come fast from the factory, with more room from aftermarket. No one said you have to like it, but to totally dismiss it as a garbage car is, as AKADRIVER has stated numerous times, close-minded.

Now, I still think the Neon is ugly as sin, but the car itself is getting better, especially with 230HP stock.