Power FC Tuning Do I need it???

[sr20tom]

Ok i got a 94 blacktop, GT2871R turbo, DC manifold and Greddy intake manifold and a #" Exhaust. I ran it on 93 octane 18psi and got 320rwhp on 550cc apex injectors and some mumbo jumbo program that was on a bikirom. here is the chart. I think the car runs like ass. It backfires, stalls and all the crap that you dont want on a daily driver to do and also eats a crapload of gas.


and then there is this dude that evans tuned for a power FC ($940) and tuning ($500) with the same set up for $1500 more and made $350 that made 335 on 93 octane at 17psi.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3673

Is the 15hp worth $1500??? If it gives me my 25mpg back and the car will run amazing like it did when it was stock then there is a consideration i think, but if the mpg will still suck balls then ill just stick with my 320, no?

Will this solve any of my proplems like MPG and is it worth it????

[johngriff]

Dont tune on a dyno jet, find a dynodynamics, maha or mustang dyno (in that order).

I dont know about power fc for sure. The power fc must be tuned by a Apexi Power Excel dealer. You might be interested in a Plug in haltech for the SR20DET, with this you could tune almost everything on the street, if you purchased a wideband too, and it would be guaranteed to fix your fuel mileage issue, if your mileage is due to improper af/r.

What are/were the af/r's anywho?

[rps13drift]

Originally Posted by johngriff

Dont tune on a dyno jet, find a dynodynamics, maha or mustang dyno (in that order).

I dont know about power fc for sure. The power fc must be tuned by a Apexi Power Excel dealer. You might be interested in a Plug in haltech for the SR20DET, with this you could tune almost everything on the street, if you purchased a wideband too, and it would be guaranteed to fix your fuel mileage issue, if your mileage is due to improper af/r.

What are/were the af/r's anywho?

youre power fc does not have to be tuned by an excel dealer! You could do all the tuning your self via commander that im sure youre power fc came with and if you have a few extra $$$ to spend i highly recomend you purchase the fc datalogit software. The Fc datalogit software allows you to tune with a laptop instead of the commander and it also unlocks alot of features that the commander alone wouldnt let you use. I have the datalogit myself and i know alot of other people on this and other forums have it and love it so you might want to look into that!
good luck!

[GSXRJJordan]

To answer your question, yes you will get great drivability improvements, as well as all the power that is possible, out of a standalone and dyno tuning.

The PowerFC is a great standalone, and you can find em pretty cheap (MA-Motorsports is a site sponsor, and has a good price), problem is they are the only standalone that doesnt give you a copy of the the software... the Haltech is a great unit, and RP Sport (JohnGriff) has a great price on a plug and play unit. The AEM has been the best one historically, but costs more, and may not be any better. The F-Con V is the favorite of some tuning shops, but not very popular any more.

My advice would be to get in touch with a tuner you think will do a great job for the price, and ask him what EMS he thinks is best. That way you'll get the best possible final product.

[johngriff]

+1 it is good to have the resources in hand, to the man that will be tunning it. After you find a NON DYNOJET tuner, ask them what ems they have the most skill/sucess with.

[Bryants95240sx]

Im gonna go with what they said. It comes down to you finding a tuner and what they have the most experience with,but if it was me i would get the haltech and tune it myself.

[johngriff]

You cannot setup a new fuel map using the commander. So you must purchase the dataloggit. The larger issue is legacy support for the PFC since it is soon to be discontinued. As well, datalogit is 3rd party, which again lack official support.

As it stands, i would recomend the greddy emanage over the PFC, because of good phone support, more features than the PFC, and a solid software. I have installed and tuned multiple PFC's as well, and used the dataloggit, after you add up all the costs for a non map system, it is kind of a waste.

[rps13drift]

Originally Posted by johngriff

You cannot setup a new fuel map using the commander. So you must purchase the dataloggit. The larger issue is legacy support for the PFC since it is soon to be discontinued. As well, datalogit is 3rd party, which again lack official support.

As it stands, i would recomend the greddy emanage over the PFC, because of good phone support, more features than the PFC, and a solid software. I have installed and tuned multiple PFC's as well, and used the dataloggit, after you add up all the costs for a non map system, it is kind of a waste.

You can tune/set up a new fuel and ignition map with the commander. I personaly have had no problems with support or troubleshooting for the power fc/fc datalogit due to massive info on forums and a dedicated e-group that also updates the software and allows you to download new features for the datalogit. If a power fc customer wanted to use a map based version they offer the power fc in a d-jetro version.

[hahahahaha]

Originally Posted by johngriff

I dont know about power fc for sure. The power fc must be tuned by a Apexi Power Excel dealer. You might be interested in a Plug in haltech for the SR20DET,

Originally Posted by johngriff

I have installed and tuned multiple PFC's as well, and used the dataloggit, after you add up all the costs for a non map system, it is kind of a waste.

I'm a lil confused here ... first ur saying u dont know power fc and that it HAS to be tuned by Apexi .. but then ur saying that u have installed multiple PFC's ........... is it that or ur just trying to sale ur own product .. no offense just asking?

also I'd say it depends on how much money u have ...... any stand alone I'd say is gonna Cost $$$ to but it .. maybe have to pay to install it and mainly pay for tunning ..... obiously u know u need a good tuner .. tunning meand everything .. so id say depending on ur budget .. is say between Power FC d- jetro or AEM EMS ... other than that one very good ecu to go with is just an emphathy or jim wolf ecu ... Good not to expensive and fast ... and if u really want that extra lil HP a safc to fine tune it ...

hope this help

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by hahahahaha

also I'd say it depends on how much money u have ...... any stand alone I'd say is gonna Cost $$$ to but it .. maybe have to pay to install it and mainly pay for tunning ..... obiously u know u need a good tuner .. tunning meand everything .. so id say depending on ur budget .. is say between Power FC d- jetro or AEM EMS ... other than that one very good ecu to go with is just an emphathy or jim wolf ecu ... Good not to expensive and fast ... and if u really want that extra lil HP a safc to fine tune it ...

hope this help

Piggy Backs are garbage imho...E-manage included when you compare to a true ECU replacement.

whether or not your disrupting input or output function value for voltage, signal or ground to activate or molest a component that is operating in creating the combustion process or timing of your engine, its still just a trick and not a true change to the control systems operation. Its trickery! haha

the AEM unit is supposedly works with output molestation open but I havent tried the greddy piggy back bs, so I dont know where it wires in. If its affecting inputs that makes it even worse.

Power FC is a better unit IMO. If you can get a black market copy of excell tuning software its leaps and bounds beyond any piggy back.

The L-jedtro Unit is great also (iirc) The MAP sensor is the key. The PFC and The Metal HG are the only things worth buying from apexi IMO.

Excatly, if your not comfortable with a local tuner to tune the unit get a tuned rom and lose the extra 20-40whp you could have with a properly tuned standalone until you can afford something better than a PFC like a Haltech or AEM unit.

PS. I can build maps for anything, clandestine, but fine load point tuning must be done a dyno. Dyno-jet is not as good at the other dynos but it will work for tunes of many applications. I would just prefer a mustang dyno myself for accurate replication of load on road condition tuning, especially for timing maps.

Also I believe Tomei has a standalone or fully reprogrammable ECU replacement as well? anyone have details? Im interested in trying one out.

Another question I have but am too lazy to track down right now is: Are the new units from Apexi coming pre-packaged with software? now?

Thanks

and cheers

[hahahahaha]

Originally Posted by hahahahaha

so id say depending on ur budget .. is say between Power FC d- jetro or AEM EMS ... other than that one very good ecu to go with is just an ethalpy or jim wolf ecu ... Good not to expensive and fast ... and if u really want that extra lil HP a safc to fine tune it ...

hope this help

as stated on their it just all depends on how much money u wanna spend if u dont want to spend to much just go with a rom tune .. i have lots of friends that run them and there cars pull great and u dont have to worrie about tunning .. and i think its true about if u ever upgrade all u have to do is send the ecu in and they will charge u like $100 to fine tune it to ur new items

[sr20tom]

ok where do i find this enthlapy stuff? Do they have a web site. Is it a dyno rom tune or is it a send in type of stuff? thanx

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by johngriff

i would recomend the greddy emanage over the PFC

I guess I havent use one so I cant speak from experience but why skimp on the most important single modification or

part of your setup? I did in the past but not anymore especially having a taste of standalone furry and glory. 10 seconds of timing equaling 50 ft lb gains in

wheel torque how can you beat that? I don't trust anything that isnt an acutal control unit. Piggy back ftw (AFC, EMANAGE) AEM is lookng good but I would rather save my money up and wait to put the big power mods on all at once (which is what I do).

[forum04pl]

i see that your in ny, dentsport in mass just opened their new dyno dynamics and thier tuner is incredible with power fc. he tuned mine and its perfect.

[sr20tom]

ok the only one that is really helping me is the mass guy. Everyone else is trowing out all these names that i cannot afford. I can get a map based PFC from e-bay for 940 shipped. Then i was willing to pay evans to tune it for 500. Now i have a wideband and it is running a little lean. I can barely afford the $1500 to do this so if anyone has any sugestions then its much appresiated. The car runs at 12.3-12.5 under 18psi wich is a little lean for my liking but as long as it dont go boom i am happy. It ran for a year like this with no problems other then stalling (bov + Fidanza flywheel), backfiring (farting) and eating a lot of gas. I am willing to consider to spend the 1500 to fix these problems with mpg being the most important. This is my daily driver. I am not putting in anything stupid like the safc or anything like that. I dont know of any good tuner. All i heard was the Evans here is the man. Help me out! is it worth it, will it fix my problems, and will it give me more MPG? Keep in mind this is a one and only daily driver. Thanx
Can i get 25+ miles per galon out of a 350hp 240 with the PFC? If not then Screw the stalling and screw the extra 20hp, its not worth my $1500, ill go on vacation instead.

[sr20tom]

oh yeh whats the diffrence between the dynos? Has anyone used Jeff Evans before? I read the forums on his site and everyone loves him. Thanx

[rps13drift]

Holy fuck!!! Steve shadows isnt bashing the apexi power fc!!! you feeling ok??? j/k.
As for the author of this thread it sounds like an enthalapy rom tuned ecu is youre best bet for youre daily driven car in my opinion. A good buddy of mine is running pretty much an identicle set up to yours with an enthalapy tune and it rips! he also gets good fuel econemy and drives the car every day to school and everything! Very reliable and i think he only paid like $500 for it. And if your plan on changing youre set up in the future for maybe cams or something you can send him back your ecu and he'll fine tune it for youre new upgrades for like $100 i think! Look on the freshalloy forums or this one for people with that tune! I think you will be very satisfied with all the happy customers that use his tunes!
good luck

[johngriff]

Here is his site: http://www.rs-enthalpy.com

As far as mail order ROM tune, he is the man.. Your AF/R is kinda scary, so i would turn the boost down in the interim.

I'm a lil confused here ... first ur saying u dont know power fc and that it HAS to be tuned by Apexi .. but then ur saying that u have installed multiple PFC's ........... is it that or ur just trying to sale ur own product .. no offense just asking?

The first statement was in regard to legacy support for the PFC. I do not trust forums, or open source community for things of this nature, especially when looking at a $1000+ investment, i have prior experience in other OS community technologies (web development stuff) and untested patches updates can kill whatever you might be trying to do.

Emanage Ultimate, as suggested for a much lower lower budget. Still making my way through my first unit, so far so good, map conversion, data logging, you can dictate injector ms open time and timing based off the emanage alone. Def not my first choice, but a much much better tunning experience than the PFC. There are more options, more auxiliary outputs/inputs, and functions usually found only standalones.

Obviously the best choice is going to be a stand alone such as the Haltech or AEM. I guess your tuner just needs to know how to setup the CAS

[rps13drift]

My buddy with an enthalapy tune gt2871r 18psi sees afr's in the 11's during wide open throttle and no safc/piggyback! not scary in my opinion!

[johngriff]

LOL, I think you might just want to argue with me.

. The car runs at 12.3-12.5 under 18psi wich is a little lean for my liking but as long as it dont go boom i am happy.

Enthalpy is usually rich, not as much as jimwolf.

[rps13drift]

My bad LOL! I misread it! not trying to argue with you! it just bugs me when people rant an rave about a product only because they sell it and they put down every thing else with out any true knowledge or experience with the competing product. Im not saying this to just you but alot of people on this and other forums do it and it kind of makes a thread worthless when the only input people get with questions is ignorant one sided answers to sell his or her product.

[hahahahaha]

im with u ^ ^ rpss13drift .. and yes emthalpy does run ther's a lil rich to be safe ... so jim wolf would maybe be a lil better to get a lil more hp and better mpg ......... but also of course they run it alil rich to be safe ... so yeah good luck with witch ever one u choose

[johngriff]

Oh well, i don't sell the greddy emanage. Otherwise I can only recommend tools i have used first hand.

[ronmcdon]

somewhat OT, but I'd be shocked if you could get a 350whp car to average out 25+ mpg just by tuning! if fuel mileage and reliabilty is what you're after, i think you'd be a lot better off buying a beater corrolla or ef civic on the side. you could prob get something a lot cheaper than 1500 w/ better mileage. i got a beater crx si for 1600, and it averages out 33mpg driven hard.

[garagelu]

i have a power fc on a 2871r and 550cc injectors tuned by balanced performance in atlanta. I get about 28-29 mpg on the highway at 14 psi. I think power fc is the best way to go. For only about 200 dollars more than an enthapy tune, you can get a full stand alone. I got my l jetro power fc for 750 dollars from alamo autosport based in texas.

[kuramaya]

You need a good tune from someone that has experience with the Unit. It helps if they have base maps to start from. YOU NEED TO TUNE ON THE STREET UNDERLOAD and with Wideband and EGT guage.

[lazierhobo]

you said you had a bikirom in your original post, if you have that, you already have all the tools that you would get with a PFC, all you need is a wideband and someone who knows how to tune. you have no need to spend any more money than just getting your setup tuned.

[johngriff]

The dyno's I suggested are more accurate than your traditional view of dynos, ie? why you mention to tune on the street. EGT is an issue, but now can be replaced by maximum tourqe output, per load point to tune timing.

Oh.. and bikirom. POS. Tuning by injector ms open time is a must.

[sr20tom]

I have made my decision and ordered the POWER FC with the map sensor and commander for 930$. Now i am plannig to go to evans in PA but know from personal experiance that he did blow up a few peoples Hondas from the bronx and still charged them $250 while they had to also pay for towing back to NY. That is what scares me, but there are a lot of good dyno charts up there for SR's and the price is not that bad. Do you guys have anything to say about him or other tuners that i can use?

[ROIDMONKEY]

I do have a Power FC too, the car is going to be "finish" soon . dont know where to take the car to get tune down here in FL. if is to much of a pain i might get a rom ecu or some like that .