stance gr+three vs koni yellow sport vs koni 28 series

[a_ahmed]

Hey guys,

I wish to see people chime in on some options.

I've been pretty set on some stance GR+ pro or GR+ three coilovers after raving reviews, however, after hearing hearsay here and there about better options why not look into these other options too?

I currently run KYB AGX+stech fronts 4/4, rears 8/8. It's descent for a street setup I suppose but I feel its' limits all the time...

Good things I want and care about: more grip, more predictability/control/responsivness, quality, durability, maybe another half an inch lower (Currently with stechs car is 1.5" lower).

Things I don't care about/want: bling bling, jdm tyteness, drifting.

My car is completely stripped + all whiteline polyurethane bushings, new LCA, ballljoints, endlinks.

Nismo power brace, yashio factory brace, yanack steering rack and steering column metal bushings.

Soon as soon as PDM releases it again, z32 inner and outer pro tie rods and their tension rods.

Crappy PDM racing polyurethane subframe inserts (i'll get to the rear end as soon as i get things sorted. I want a reinforced subframe+solid metal bushings, all arms replaced and ultimately LCAs replaced).

I definetely need some thicker swaybars also... as I have the stock ones which feel almost not there lol, especially the rear, it feels like the car is not solid at enough. I installed DC Sports STB recently and wow what a difference in the rear with that alone. The S13 chassis is so flimsy stock...

So anyways, that's my current setup, I'm sure I've missed a thing or two, but go on and give me some input.

yellow sports seem a tempting thing to get, but then compare to stances how do they compare.. and then of course the KONI 28s...

Could care less about any joe and shmoe tein JDM tyte coilover.

[slothonaleash]

i'd go with gr+ pros... gr3's are probably unnecessary for your needs, unless you really want the utmost adjustability in your dampening

[!Zar!]

gr+3's are discontinued.


Nothing is wrong with tein. It's just the low end stuff sucks. Don't get it twisted.


A coilover that is good for drifting will be good for grip. They pretty much go hand in hand.

For a sway bar check out whiteline. I have them on my suby and s14 and they preform great. Being adjustable is a plus also.

[KiDyNomiTe]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

gr+3's are discontinued.

Not necessarily, you would just have to special order them if you really really wanted them. They are really expensive to stock and for the amount of people that would want to run them its not worth keeping them. They have been semi-replaced by the aluminum coilovers (AL+). Too many people bitch about the coilover weight.

[Kaotik25]

Go with GR+ Pro. i'm using them for grip driving and i love the way they perform. I'm also running F+R Suspension Techniques sways, i love them too.

[!Zar!]

I have gr+ pro's on my fc. It feels ok. Damping sucks on the softer side. But overall I'm happy with it.

I think I'm going to switch out to swift spring with a stiffer rate.

[AceInHole]

Why'd Stance d/c the GR3? Disconnect issues? I know there were a few complaints about the quick-disconnect lines....

Your best bet is the Koni Yellows. You can always have custom Koni 8611 housings made, but they might be a bit much if you're not running beyond an 8/6 springrate (450/325). If you're going to run Koni 28's you might as well look into Moton Clubsports.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by AceInHole

Why'd Stance d/c the GR3? Disconnect issues? I know there were a few complaints about the quick-disconnect lines....

Your best bet is the Koni Yellows. You can always have custom Koni 8611 housings made, but they might be a bit much if you're not running beyond an 8/6 springrate (450/325). If you're going to run Koni 28's you might as well look into Moton Clubsports.

I know a some poeple who have them and after spending some time on the track getting them dialed in, they felt great. But it does take time.

Personally I think it is because of the disconnect. But when they replied to me, it basically said that the average market was too stupid to setup three way adjustable coilovers. Note that is a statment of my own, not of stance-usa. They said something along the lines of, "The amount of adjustability was too much for most people".

Since they discontinued the gr+3's they now have a new high end coilover to replace them. The AL+'s. Same thing as the Gr+'s just aluminum body. Retail is about $1.6k.

[AceInHole]

Meh. That seems kind of dumb. I wonder if that's why KSport hasn't released their external rig, and D2 is only marketing it in Europe. I was told it wasn't supposed to be a general market product, and more of a bridge between high end stuff and the cheap junk.

[snappy]

Yeah I could care less about the aluminum body on the AL's, I guess if you cared about your coilovers being a few oz. lighter that's cool, but if the only difference between the GR+ pros and the AL's are the aluminum body I'd go with the GR+ pro's and use the 200 bucks difference towards tie rods or sway bars.

[longdy]

Originally Posted by snappy

Yeah I could care less about the aluminum body on the AL's, I guess if you cared about your coilovers being a few oz. lighter that's cool, but if the only difference between the GR+ pros and the AL's are the aluminum body I'd go with the GR+ pro's and use the 200 bucks difference towards tie rods or sway bars.

very well put!..lol im going to do the same soon so yup yup get the GR+pros and save some money!!!...for a hooker or something if that helps ..lol

[!Zar!]

It's all about unsprung weight. Read up on it.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

It's all about unsprung weight. Read up on it.

^^I'll do that, but let me ask you this; is the basic advantage of having the aluminum body better for rebound?

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by snappy

^^I'll do that, but let me ask you this; is the basic advantage of having the aluminum body better for rebound?

Probably not enough of an advantage to make them as good as Konis.

[Wiisass]

An aluminum body reduces unsprung weight slightly. You have to remember that only part of the damper weight is unsprung. It also helps to dissipate heat better than a steel body. But an aluminum bodied damper wouldn't be a good idea for the front suspension. It would have to be made too thick to handle the bending loads it is going to be seeing as a strut. I'm sure it could be made to work but it wouldn't be as strong as a steel piece in a place where you really need the strength.

And reducing unsprung weight has a bigger effect on compression.

As for your other choices, I don't have much to say about the Gr3's because I never saw shock data on them. So I can't say if the damping is in the right range or if the adjusters work the way they're supposed to.

The Koni yellows would probably be fine for what you want to do. Which you never really said, you just said you want better handling. But you also threw out the 28 series, so what exactly are you trying to do? Have a well handling car that is fun? Spend a lot of money making your car handle awesome and race it? If you just want a fun car, then the 28 series are putting you in a much higher price range. I mean one shock is the same price as a cheap set of coilovers. But you have full control over the damping curve and how you want it to look. But if you don't know what you're doing in this respect, paying all that money and then paying someone else to set it up for you wouldn't be worth it.

Also, unless I missed it, you didn't say what springs you wanted to run. And depending on that, they might be too stiff for the yellows. Like PJ said, you should look into the 8611 series if you want an adjustable setup. But you're going to have to figure out how to mount them to the car and all of that. But it would be a better damper.

As for sway bars, a front bar probably isn't needed. The front bar is very stiff to begin with. But it also depends on the spring you want to run. I won't get into my whole thing about sway bars and how I feel about them. But if you want to upgrade go with the progress bars. I only say these over the whitelines because I never got to test the whiteline bars. I tested stock, ST, progress and Tanabe. And Progress were by far the best. ST's sucked and were stupid heavy. The Tanabes were boring and overpriced. The Progress are adjustable and can give you as soft as a stock front bar/rear HICAS bar setup, which I think is the best match with common spring rates, and then gets stiffer from there. I think it gets stiffer than the Tanabe and close to the stiffness of the ST, but I don't remember and don't feel like looking up my numbers again.

Tim

[CKAMC]

Here is a small write up on ksports circuit pro's that feature an external res. Went and looked at their site and for some reason they do not have them listed anymore

http://www.az240sx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26997

[AceInHole]

http://www.ksportusa.com/products/circuitpro.html

http://www.d2racingsport.co.uk/images/shock_a05.jpg
http://www.d2racingsport.co.uk/Pages/coilovers.asp

I'm running Koni 8611's up front (600lb springs or roughly 10.7kg) with yellows in back (my rear yellows have 8kg equivolent springs on them). Also running a whiteline bar up front with no rear bar. It's comfortable enough to drive through NYC and Boston on the way to events. Good dampers kick the shit out of cheap coilovers.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

this like a spin off from my thread

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=153818

[AceInHole]

sort of, except he mentions $1700 coilovers, $5500 coilovers, and $1100 coilovers.

[RUTH'LESSDET]

"Ballin" $$$$$$$$

good luck with your pic...Ive learned its not that easy to pick suspension lots of things to consider

Originally Posted by AceInHole

sort of, except he mentions $1700 coilovers, $5500 coilovers, and $1100 coilovers.

[sideview_180sx]

anyone remember when RS-R released the I-shock years ago and they pulled it because people didn't know how to adjust them. people would complain that they suck and what not, never realizing they are the ones who sucked. I'd say follow aceinhole advice. theres a reason he and jason rhodes did well in respective classes. good suspension work. take notes from them.

[a_ahmed]

The GR three+ had low and high speed adjustment if I recall hence my interest in the greater versatility of them, with wishful thinking that they were one of the better options out there (KW V3?) but honestly, there's better options then?

The high end stuff, rarely do I hear people actually run it or review it, its like a myth, a legend, people mention it and everyone shivers at their greatness, but thats about it. Moton, JRS, Penske, Ohlins, what else out there. Bilsteins vs KONIs? So KONI 28s seems like something tried (alas by a microscopic few who speak of it) and proven...?

yeah im kind of getting interested with the whole 28 KONIs... they seem to be the best option out there for our chassis I suppose. There's too few comparisons out there though, everyone just hears coilovers and automatically assumes they'll have a race car... when alot of the stuff out there is junk and honestly most of what people want out of coilovers is just... to lower their car and make it bling flush with stretched tires haha.

Well I kind of sorted out plans for a project with a 30k budget for everything on the car (chassis, suspension work, functional aero, engine/driveline, lighter but bbk brakes, fat non stretched light custom wheels/tires). I don't want to spend double on things I might choose more wisely with more research and better analysis thus choices. I know 30k might be up and down, plus and minus, but it usually ends up being more... but thats my thinking so far.

I've spent already on the car in the past but with a different principle and mindset, my current mindest and new goal is to build with quality and descent amount of research before jumping on things... So far so good...

Goal of car? Unlimited class racing with the big boys + my joy ride in summer when I'm bored of the family car. I am not exactly bothered with harsh stiff and noisy rides (stripped car + maximum dampening on current shocks/spring combo + all polyurethane bushings on everything = no problem and i still think its soft and flimsy haha)

Power goal = 400whp/400lbs/ft tq out of an ls1 in NA form.
Racing type = grip/unlimited/time attack
Suspension = all pillowball SPL parts, unknown dampners/coilovers except what i said, strengthened non hicas subframe.
Chassis: all the nifty braces + caged and stitch welded, but i intend to do this last. Right now im focusing on suspension bits, then after all that the engine and driveline, and then I will finally give full and not partial like now attention to the chassis (maybe even acid dipped, I want this thing to built to last, not be thrown out)

Estimate on project being finished?: 3-4 years or so, I don't want to be over enthusiastic as it is my hobby not career (haha i wish) therefore I'm doing things in a paced and collected researched manner.

A street car is my family car, my JOY ride and to be unlimited class car is this car.

Inspirations for car?: Nurburgring + Touge/time attack racing. Mine's 34, xs engineering r32, yashio factory s13 widebody touge car, momentum gt s13 race car, SPL's Z32 time attack car, sasha's local s14, random s14/s15 time attack cars.
Wishful high end competition: Ferrari Enzo :giggle: carrera gt, and modified m3 CSLs. The last two of which are absolutely amazing handling gripping cars. Check those last two bad boys on the nurburgring. M3 CSL supercharged + modified with external tank ohlins, 8piston bbk, and the whole shabang with more weight shedding than stock CSL = absolute awesomeness.

What I want: fast acceleration, top speed, insane braking, responsivness and rigid chassis, not drift but grip, road holding, and awesome handling. To beat or at least match the likes of expensive supercars.

All sounds very idealistic but I'm taking my time with this and going all out on this baby. I considered parting out on the car and selling everything getting an FD RX7, s200, saving up for a few years for a z06 or NSX, things like that but nope, just thought it can be far more efficient when done by oneself over a period of time and much money invested . Of course itll look like an s13, but hey haha.

Wish where I would love to race it: nurburgring, japanese time attacks and american touge videos Those kinds of settings but of course local hehe. The biggest inspiration was last year's redline time attack events' momentum gt car and SPL's Z32 time attack car.

Fastest cars I've driven to date imo: Lotus 7 replicas, srt-10 viper, modified m5 and karts if those count lol. Lots of different modified imports (euro and jap). I'm not afraid of cars, especially fast cars. I want faster and faster all the time. I would drive everything if I had the chance.

Can I do it? Absolutely, if someone wants to achieve something with enough time and money, anything is possible, but that's why I am being paced and gradual.

The car will be stored in november for the winter season, the moment salt is even talked about my baby goes in hiding and for a long winter sleep. Until then im just gathering some suspension bits, i will continue in spring and potentially in the summer look forward to an ls1 swap (God willing). Possibly a kid and I'm going to be a daddy on the way but it's all step by step

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

The high end stuff, rarely do I hear people actually run it or review it, its like a myth, a legend, people mention it and everyone shivers at their greatness, but thats about it. Moton, JRS, Penske, Ohlins, what else out there. Bilsteins vs KONIs? So KONI 28s seems like something tried (alas by a microscopic few who speak of it) and proven...?

The people that run the high end components generally do not frequent the car club forums. Sadly, the majority of 240sx owners wouldn't know the difference between a Bilstein, Ohlins, Moton, or Koni coilover, and would be likely to assume they suck since they don't have adjustable lower perches.

I was tempted with the Stance GR3's, mostly because I was expecting to take them apart and custom make valves/ shims for them. I ended up with Koni 8611's because they ended up costing me about the same, but I get to go fast now. So far I'm at roughly $1600 without upper mounts (reused some cheap pillowball ones from my old setup), and using "normal" yellows in the rear, as I'm still working on fitting longer stroke 8611's back there. The other thing about Koni is that everyone seems to be capable of revalving/ servicing them. The same is true for Bilstein and Penske, but to the point where you can service most Penske shocks in your own garage, and configure Bilsteins however you want with "easily" available parts (one of the reasons Wiisass is running Bilstein, but he has access to a dyno, IIRC).

Really, any of the top names will be fast. Search through other car forums where people actually race their cars, such as BMW, Evo/ Sti, Miata, Porsche, etc. The general consensus was "worth every penny" (and it's a lot of pennies) as far as I've seen. One top autocrosser is on Ohlins with 800lb springs up front (14.2kg, and a similar strut setup to ours) and has a more comfortable ride than my car with 600lb springs (10.7kg), which is more comfortable than *insert your generic cheap coilover brand here*. Proper dampers = more grip = more control = more comfort.

[yudalicious]

Originally Posted by AceInHole

using "normal" yellows in the rear, as I'm still working on fitting longer stroke 8611's back there.

Ace did you have them converted to externally adjustable or are they comepletely OTS?

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by yudalicious

Ace did you have them converted to externally adjustable or are they comepletely OTS?

My rears are completely OTS. I set them to full stiff and just left 'em. They're at their limit with the 450# springs, but they've been holding on. I'm hoping to have either some 3011's in back or 8610's (maybe 8611's but I dont think I'll need comp adjustment) by the beginning of next year.

[fromxtor]

Ruthless: I am convinced you already decided what you wanted, but figured you would make a thread so we could all talk about it. Like Logan said, it's up to you in the end.

A_Ahmed: I said it once I'll say it again Konis + Ground control coils w/ (400/350) are a killer combo for competitive track driving. Auto-x,Time attack,road racing, HPDEs, for the money you just cant beat the combo.

[snappy]

a ahmed, you started the tread about one coilover vs. another, then just went into promoting your car and what you plan on doing with it. We don't really care about your life story- stay on the subject of this thread. If you want to bost about your car; start another thread with the headline, "My Car is Gonna Be So Cool, Check Me Out."

[mmdb]

Check out Freshalloy.com and search for threads started by J_Rho. He's currently running Koni 28 series custom coilovers. He's been very successful with them.