Viscous Limited Slip differential

[esper]

Sup.. Basically i have an s14 w/o LSD. So, should i get a VLSD (stock) or save up for a kaaz.  i mean, i really, really want to experience driving my car with "both" rear tires hehe
but yeah i heard that the VLSD's dont make too much of a difference.  So is ti worth saving money to get a stock VLSD now and get a kaaz later or should i get a kaaz now??

[Archangel]

A Kaaz, Cusco, or Nismo LSD should have a noticable improvement over the stock unit.  Whether is a big enough to justify the extra $$ is up to you, and depends on how much you can get a stock unit for.

BTW, I also have a s14 with an open diff, and I am planning on saving for an aftermarket LSD instead of stock.  Not sure which unit to go with though.

[Dousan_PG]

vlsds do help. my friend has one on his s14, he drifts  alot, says it lags some, he wants a 2 way
i have a 2 way. i love it. cant live without it now.

[FRpilot]

how do you install the kazz, cusco, or nismo lsd?

[Steeles]

my suggestion? &nbsp;let a tranny shop do it. &nbsp;its a lot of little things going on in there. &nbsp;I've driven a stock LSD 240 and mine with the nismo clutch type and its a big difference between the two. &nbsp;and both are a world of difference from a non LSD equipped 240. &nbsp;either way you go you'll notice a big difference. which type you should go for is pretty dependent on what your going to do. &nbsp;the stock VLSD is fine for most drivers mines probably overkill for my useage at this point (mostly cuz I havent had the time/money to do much racing) &nbsp;but I wouldnt trade it for the world <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[240 2NR]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (esper @ Nov. 02 2002,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sup.. Basically i have an s14 w/o LSD. So, should i get a VLSD (stock) or save up for a kaaz. &nbsp;i mean, i really, really want to experience driving my car with "both" rear tires hehe
but yeah i heard that the VLSD's dont make too much of a difference. &nbsp;So is ti worth saving money to get a stock VLSD now and get a kaaz later or should i get a kaaz now??</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Sounds like you need to do some research to find out how all these LSD's actually work and which is best suited to your needs. &nbsp; &nbsp;Each tyep will work well for a different purpose. &nbsp;This isn't really a decision of quality, but rather of performance.

[Tubed4evr]

Steeles &nbsp;. . . I've been looking at that differential lately and had a few questions.
1. &nbsp;How is the noise when the unit is active? &nbsp;

2. &nbsp;What pumpkin is the unit meant to go into? (can it be used with an open diff and shafts?)

3. &nbsp;Does it come basically prepped for the street? i.e. did you need to remove any clutch disks before installing (as is routinely done with the kaaz unit)

Thanks

[luke91]

Here's what to do:

1. Open the diff
2. Weld the diff
3. Close the diff

As soon as this is done, go brag to all of your domestic buddies about how good your "posi burnouts" are. &nbsp;Then start saving up for tires, and go slow around bends. &nbsp;

--luke

[Steeles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tubed4evr @ Nov. 06 2002,4:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Steeles . . . I've been looking at that differential lately and had a few questions.
1. How is the noise when the unit is active?

2. What pumpkin is the unit meant to go into? (can it be used with an open diff and shafts?)

3. Does it come basically prepped for the street? i.e. did you need to remove any clutch disks before installing (as is routinely done with the kaaz unit)

Thanks</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well Im going to tell you about my setup due to its nature its a little hard to answer your questions individually. &nbsp;first off it does not chatter constantly like the Kaaz units do. &nbsp;it is LOUD and VIOLENT when it does lock though like in low speed turns like when parking and such. &nbsp;BUT mine is also in an S13 pumpkin (thats how it came with SS and all already in and I drive an S14) &nbsp;so all I did was swap the rear covers. &nbsp;which means that the front mounts are now SOLID instead of having the bushings on them like the stock pumpkin. &nbsp;this translates into feeling damn near EVERYTHING that happens to that diff. &nbsp;quite painful sounding sometimes. &nbsp;it sounds like you tore something loose from the car <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;so no other than cleaning out the pumpkin and putting the S14 rear cover on I did no prepwork too it. &nbsp;next major round of mods on the car I may rebuild it and drop it back in the S14 pumpkin though try and eliminate some of the noise. &nbsp;bothers the ladies <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

Brandon

[wherezmytofu]

i dunno about nismo...but i know quaife is better then kazz and cusco..... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[luke91]

Have you guys tried that new differential called
WELD?

Just curious...

--luke

[Yoshi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luke91 @ Nov. 07 2002,8:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have you guys tried that new differential called
WELD?

Just curious...

--luke</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
dude, what's your deal with welding the diff? 2nd time you've mentioned it this thread... &nbsp;I assumed u were joking, but now I'm not so sure &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'>

[Tubed4evr]

Thanks for the response Steeles . . . just one more question. &nbsp;
So it sounds like your diff came with everything (pumpkin, shafts, and L.S.D.). &nbsp;Is this how Nismo sells this unit? or did you pick yours up used? &nbsp;I have been having a hard time finding information from distributors in the U.S. about the unit. &nbsp;I know most aftermarket LSD's are just a differential that needs to be installed in a pumpkin with associated shafts. &nbsp; &nbsp;If you could point me in the direction of a reputable distributor I would be very grateful.

Ryan

[Steeles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tubed4evr @ Nov. 07 2002,11:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for the response Steeles . . . just one more question.
So it sounds like your diff came with everything (pumpkin, shafts, and L.S.D.). Is this how Nismo sells this unit? or did you pick yours up used? I have been having a hard time finding information from distributors in the U.S. about the unit. I know most aftermarket LSD's are just a differential that needs to be installed in a pumpkin with associated shafts. If you could point me in the direction of a reputable distributor I would be very grateful.

Ryan</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
yeah I picked mine up used from Heavy Throttle. &nbsp;came with a nice little suprise too in the form of a 4.36 final gear in place &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> &nbsp; other than that I havent seen it available any other way than the unit that needs to be installed in a carrier. &nbsp;but to my knowledge it should be able to drop straight into a non LSD pumpkin. &nbsp;one of those benefits of buying a Nissan part. &nbsp;I beleive Jspec gets the install kit (even comes with GTR Diff lube) but you can also go through your nissan parts department for truly reputable <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;just take plenty of lube. &nbsp;find one that offers a good discount like Courtesy Nissan

Brandon

[luke91]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I assumed u were joking, but now I'm not so sure &nbsp;</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I take offense to that. &nbsp;Any idiot in their right mind knows that losing control around corners, even when you don't want to, is cool. &nbsp;Having to buy tires all the damn time rules, too. &nbsp;You guys are weak. &nbsp;

If you think I'm being serious, that's funny. &nbsp;Who knows, I might be...

--luke

[luke91]

In all seriousness, I have a few questions about diffs. &nbsp;Some of you seem to know a thing or two about them, so:

I still have an open diff, and that needs to change really soon. &nbsp;Originally, I was planning to go with a stock 240SX SE diff, or one from a 300ZX N/A. &nbsp;Now, these are both viscous LSD's, right? &nbsp;Then, what makes them any different from aftermarket VLSD's?

The only reason I was going to buy a stock diff is to save money. &nbsp;I'm really not too thrilled about how a VLSD works. &nbsp;It seems to me that you'll still be spinning one wheel for a while until it engages. &nbsp;In some situations, you need both to spin immediately. &nbsp;

My car isn't autocrossed. &nbsp;My main focus for having a diff is traction while drag racing. &nbsp;Also, I'd like to have both wheels be able to spin simultaneously for drifting. &nbsp;My car is street driven daily, but that makes no difference. &nbsp;I won't pass up a good diff just because it's less "streetable". &nbsp;

What would you suggest?

--luke

[Tubed4evr]

The stock LSD's are &nbsp;VLSD's (viscous limited slip differential). &nbsp;Aftermarket units are not. &nbsp;Most are a clutch type(kaaz, cusco, ats) check out the kaaz website for a good exploded view of whats on the inside. &nbsp; Clutch types will engage when the cam in the middle is forced into the triangle opening which creates a force pushing outwards and puts pressure on the clutches. &nbsp;A clutch type diff usually has some level of adjustment as to how easily it is engaged. &nbsp;I have heard that the kaaz is almost like a locked diff right out of the box and needs to be adjusted before you would want to take it on the street. &nbsp;A clutch type sounds like it would fit your needs pretty good . . . i.e. keep both tires spinning right from the get go.


I think the Nismo diff works the same way although it says its a mechanical diff. &nbsp;So far I have only seen "Mechanical LSD" as a way of differentiating from viscous. &nbsp;If it means something more &nbsp;somebody please let me know.

[240 2NR]

I know I've done a few write ups before so a search may yeild more info.

So far we haven't discussed any aftermarket VLSD (viscous limited slip differential). &nbsp;A VLSD is a specific type of LSD that uses a viscous fluid between two plates at the ends of the half shafts inside the diff. &nbsp;Under normal driving the plates spin at the same rate and the fluid is fine. &nbsp;When one wheel spins (in relation to the other) a speed differential is created that heats the fluid which becomes more viscous and transfers power to the other wheel. &nbsp;In effect there is some delay to it's acuation, but this is by far the cheapest and most streetable option as it's pretty much an open diff until one wheel slips.

A mechanical diff like a quaife or torsen system uses a system of gears which, based on their meshing characteristics, will spin freely at the same speed but agian when a differential is created will "bind" and shift torque (well that's my simple explanation of it, SCC had a very good write up on how a quaife really works). &nbsp;These are very fast reacting units and are in my opinion the best for an auto-x/ race setup. &nbsp;They however may be marginal on ice as there is a certain level of resistance needed or it will act like an open diff when one wheel has no resistance (like when it's lifted in the air).

A clutch type diff (KAAZ) uses clutch packs which initially "lock" both halfshafts together and will have a breakawy torque that must be reached before they will allow slippage and "open" to allow a differential of speed. &nbsp;The drawback I see (having never used one) is that to get a lot of grip requires a stiff setting which is less streetable, and a more streetable setting gets you less traction. &nbsp;These also require more maintenance and people claim they are noisy. &nbsp;At the same time it's one of the cheaper aftermarket diff options.

Open diff- very basic, sends power to the wheel with the lest resistance

VLSD- open diff action that will begn to lock itself under wheelspin

Mechanical LSD- 50/50 with torque distribiuting properties that are very fast, but require resistance to work.

Clutch type LSD- 50/50 split that remains "locked" until enough shear force is created to slip the clutch.

Gold trac- used on circle track racers, acts as a locked diff under throttle and open when off throttle. &nbsp;(don't think you can get one very easy, my friend told me about them from when he used to circle track race)

[Steeles]

240 2ner has about all the info I could spit back at ya. &nbsp;but as I said before the Nismo is a Clutch pack and yes its noisy. &nbsp;but not bad compared to Kaaz. &nbsp;having driven one heard the other I'll take my nismo. &nbsp;(iirc Cusco makes the nismo) &nbsp;so for Luke 91 purposes I'd recommend either a quaiffe (over 1000hp holding capacity &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> ) or a really tightly packed clutch type like the Kaaz.

[Tubed4evr]

Does anyone actually have a quaife? I've heard alot of praise for it, but I have never heard of anyone that put one on a 240. I know they make an application for the R200 diff but they do not list the 240sx as one of the cars its designed for.

[Dark]

Steeles can you tell me more about the 4.36 final gear you got. I know the car can accelerate faster but the question is by how much? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[Steeles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dark @ Nov. 09 2002,11:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Steeles can you tell me more about the 4.36 final gear you got. I know the car can accelerate faster but the question is by how much? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
its a hellish difference man. &nbsp;I dont know how else to describe it, first gear is totally useless its ready to go so quick I feel like Im shifting in slow motion. &nbsp;a friend with the Nismo 4.63 gears said he noticed more of a difference with that than with his xs turbo kit. &nbsp;i cant tell you buy how much really cuz I put it &nbsp;in when I had a severly slipping clutch and my KA when I replaced the clutch was when I put the SR in so there was so much different about the car its impossible to compare. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> &nbsp; all in all I highly recomend it though &nbsp;its a sure fire bang for the buck you lose a little gas mileage cruising the highways but thats about the only disadvantage I can think of

[esper]

ok thakns for the insight guys!! b4 i decide which to get, which type does the NISMO LSD fall under?? torque, V or CLutch.

and which is the best all around

and which is the best for drifting

[wherezmytofu]

quaife's diff are all torque bias.....quaife diffs > all!

[Tubed4evr]

Once again I would like to see an example of the quaife used in a 240 before people recommend it. &nbsp;Thus far the only place I have seen it is a SCCA GT4 class 240sx full race car(it's for sale in SCCA's sports car magazine . . .first 60 grand takes it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'> ) &nbsp;If anyone knows for a fact if it will fit or not please post it along with what shafts are needed.

[Steeles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (esper @ Nov. 11 2002,12:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok thakns for the insight guys!! b4 i decide which to get, which type does the NISMO LSD fall under?? torque, V or CLutch.

and which is the best all around

and which is the best for drifting</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Nismo is Clutch type

[Dousan_PG]

i thought nismo was mechanical??
pretty sure because i was looking at the back of my hyper rev book and in katana it came out to be mechanical
jspec sold a mechanical one too.
i think it depends onthemodel of this Nismo LSD

[Steeles]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dousan36 @ Nov. 11 2002,11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i thought nismo was mechanical??
pretty sure because i was looking at the back of my hyper rev book and in katana it came out to be mechanical
jspec sold a mechanical one too.
i think it depends onthemodel of this Nismo LSD</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
well it just may be &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;I cant read japanese to read the nismo catalog but the one on JSpec.com currently is according to them Mechanical. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> &nbsp;whatever it is I like it! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>