Turbo install on S13 (SOHC)

[prInce]

'90 SOHC (<- yeaaaah <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>):
I don't completely understand the turbo system, so help me out here...
What I'm thinkin of doin is purchasin a cheap turbo kit (for start) from turbonetics and do the installation myself. What parts do I exactly need? I'm just looking to add about 20-50 raw HP.
If this installation is successful, then i'll rebuild my engine with bigger CAM and pistons and install a T3/T4 hybrid turbo and a nice intercooler to go with that <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
but for now:
what cheap turbo kit can i purchase?
I have removed the A/C compressor and should make installtion easier... will i need to get rid of AIV box?
where would the two pipes re-route to, that currently connected to the headers?
what parts do I need?
so far the parts that i think i might need are:
down pipe (can build a custom)
custom manifold (know a place online that sells em?)
intercooler (do i need one for a small turbo kit?)
electric fan <- yes/no?
Blow-off valve (BOV) <- what does this do, and does the kit come with this?
wastegate <- i'll stick with the internal wastegate since it'll be a small turbo kit... right/wrong?

I know I asked a lot of questions, but any explanations, websites, links; all that you can come up with to help me kill time this summer will be greatly appreciated <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[r2acres]

Check out this website240 turbo
and this one 240 turbo

[whateverjames]

you have to drill a hole in your oil pan, attach a fitting, and run a line to the turbo. you either have to lift you engine and take off the oil pan to do the work, or i've heard there is a certain way to drill into the pan without getting too many shaving in the pan. then you have to run a bunch of oil through to make sure all of the shavings are removed.

i haven't installed a turbo, but that sounds like the toughest job. and if you screw up the oil pan, you have to lift the engine anyway <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

but you should try searching at freshalloy.com for details about this.

[Jeff240sx]

First off, everyone has their own beliefs on this. &nbsp;My belief is that nobody should ever get a puny turbo to make 20-50 hp then upgrade everything once again. &nbsp;The first setup will cost near $1k. &nbsp;The second will be $3k. &nbsp;Thats $4k. &nbsp;For that much, you could have a wicked system in the first place.

Turbo engines usually use a mild cam. &nbsp;Nothing too big, cuz the engine no-longer has to suck the air. &nbsp;It is forced in there. &nbsp;
For a cheap kit, I've seen ppl do them for less than $2k. &nbsp;z31 turbo, a t3 turbo. &nbsp;Quick spooling, and decent hp possibilities. &nbsp;Somewhere 300-350ish. &nbsp; That was $200. &nbsp;Starion FMIC, $120, ebay. &nbsp;FMU, no name brand, $80 - ebay. &nbsp;z32tt injectors, used in junkyard - $100. &nbsp;Manifold made ~ $200. &nbsp;Cheap &nbsp;BOV - $50. &nbsp;Gauges and pods - $300. &nbsp;Tubing made for FMIC - $220. &nbsp;Misc lines for oil, ect - $50.
Thats about the bare essentials. &nbsp;For like $1300.

And you can remove some suspension parts to get to the oil pan.
-Jeff

[rancid240]

$200 manifold? &nbsp;I havent seen one that cheap, where did you see it, or are you suggesting custom fabrication?

I heard from a 510 guy that maybe an old naps z or whatever those old school engines are that was turbo, the header may fit a ka24e.

Also, is there a way to use an oil filter relocation kit, and use that for an oil line? &nbsp;I know they make one for hardbodies.

[rancid240]

Also what about an ECU retune for the injectors, or will the FMU take care of that?

[9591]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ April 24 2002,12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Turbo engines usually use a mild cam. Nothing too big, cuz the engine no-longer has to suck the air. It is forced in there. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
And forced out, too. High lift (to more easily allow the air to be forced in and out) plus short duration (to keep the air that's being being forced in to not also be forced out at the same time) would make a good turbo cam. I just wish somebody would make one like that for the KA.

[Yoshi]

Umm... Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned mileage on your engine?
SOHC engines are over 12 years old now... how many miles do you have on that thing? &nbsp;I'd be really hesitant to even contemplate putting a turbo on an engine with over 90-100k on it already. &nbsp;

Just a different insight.

[prInce]

yeah yoshi... i got 130k miles on it &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>
i guess, i will rebuild the engine and just do a good turbo install instead of doin a cheap turbo...

i know this has been discussed in the past, but if i go sr20det, i still will only get 205HP from the redtop... can that engine be modified to produce more power. &nbsp;i want to spend under $5000 and get a nice 275-300hp from sr20.. is that possible?

KA24E lovers, please make some suggestions <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;if i get no support, then i'm buyin a '98 S14 or the 350Z <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[rancid240]

If you buy one of those, you will have no cash for mods. About mileage, I think mines begging for it, a 1990 with 65K miles....

[veil_side_]

Sup cats, I'm new here, formalities aside, here is the deal from my personal opinion. &nbsp;If you are looking to get 30-40hp from your engine, I'd go with Nitrous. &nbsp;I'm no expert but from my understanding, you're looking at upgrading your ECU, possibly some fabrication and other expenses for a very mild increase in HP, running oil lines, intercooler and piping is just a little too much work in my opinion. &nbsp;With Nitrous you get everyday drivability and 30-40 at a turn of a knob and switches for about 500 dollars. &nbsp;Just my honest opinion

[Jeff240sx]

Yeah guy - I was talking custom fabrication on the manifold.
I wouldn't start replacing the engine, because even with 130k, you should still be able to boost. &nbsp;I have seen dynos of a ka24de at 4.5psi running 217 RWHP. &nbsp;And the 1320 in 14 flat. &nbsp;Thats only 4.5psi. &nbsp;No injectors, no FMU, just a turbo, bov, wastegate. &nbsp;
If you got a low pressure spring in your wastegate, you could turn the boost down really low, like 3 or 3.5. &nbsp;I'm sure you'd get your 50 hp or so. &nbsp;And then have the ability to replace stuff and turn up the boost later.
Go Turbo!
And to the NOS guy. &nbsp;What happens when you race, beat someone, run out of n2o, and at the next light he says "bad launch, missed shift, blah blah blah. &nbsp;Lets go again." &nbsp;Then you get beat bad. &nbsp;Then gotta pay $30 to get the bottle refilled. &nbsp;Not my way of goin.
-Jeff

[rancid240]

Well lets say i can build a 220RWHP ka24e for about $1500, or I can get an sr20det complete for $2k, install it myself, $100 for a modified wire harness, sell my ka24e complete for ~$500 (hopefully) and end up with half the miles on the engine, for about the same price...decisions, decisions.

[s15dude]

Everyone has their own opinion when it comes to the great KA-T vs. SR fight. I have seen several people "price out" each to see what the cheapest would be. But they can both be done for cheaper than the other cuz it all comes down to how much wrenching you do yourself, who you know to get replacments parts from, and wether or not you want a higher reving low displacement motor like the SR, or the torquier bigger displacment of the KA. Personally I'm doing a KA-T cause I can do it cheaper than the SR, I don't know where to get SR replacment parts, and I like the torque that the KA has.

[Yoshi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (prInce @ April 23 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yeah yoshi... i got 130k miles on it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>
i guess, i will rebuild the engine and just do a good turbo install instead of doin a cheap turbo...

i know this has been discussed in the past, but if i go sr20det, i still will only get 205HP from the redtop... can that engine be modified to produce more power. i want to spend under $5000 and get a nice 275-300hp from sr20.. is that possible?

KA24E lovers, please make some suggestions <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> if i get no support, then i'm buyin a '98 S14 or the 350Z <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
There's lots of arguement to the SR vs KA debate, I'm a fan of both engines, so I feel I can be a lil less biased than most.

First, your question about the SR, the redtop SR is THE MOST buildable SR. &nbsp;It lacks the VVT and other bells and whistles that the later models have... don't get me wrong, they're all well and good, but the serious guys who are really into pushing the engine to it's limits strip that stuff out first thing, which is why people, even the hardcore tuners, like the redtops (and 180sx blacktops, as theyr'e the same). 275-300HP is just above the range I'm looking for... but your question of $ is a tough one.

the amount of $ spend really is like s15dude said, it comes down to how much wrench time you're able to put in yourself. Personally, I'm getting mine done by a shop... I don't trust myself to do it, and even if I thought I had the capability, I want the piece of mind knowing a pro with lots of SR experience did it, not me bumbling my way through it. &nbsp;

The KA on the other hand has wide part availability (although in teh SR's defence, there are SR20DE's around that many parts are swapable from), and you would stay street legal (SR's aren't). &nbsp;Also, if you ever plan to race (autoX etc), an SR motor would put you in a mod class with hardcore bigboys.... not the street or novice classes ... SCCA guys can tell you more about that. &nbsp;Turboing your KA really depends on it's condition, and how well it was taken care of.

[Yoshi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (veil_side_ @ April 23 2002,1:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sup cats, I'm new here, formalities aside, here is the deal from my personal opinion. If you are looking to get 30-40hp from your engine, I'd go with Nitrous. I'm no expert but from my understanding, you're looking at upgrading your ECU, possibly some fabrication and other expenses for a very mild increase in HP, running oil lines, intercooler and piping is just a little too much work in my opinion. With Nitrous you get everyday drivability and 30-40 at a turn of a knob and switches for about 500 dollars. Just my honest opinion</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
okay, yes, a turbo IS more expensive and more trouble... but it's on all the time (well, above whatever rpm you have it set to spool at). &nbsp;Nitrous is illegal on the streets and a temporary boost (not to mention hard on the poor engine). &nbsp;Personally I think of nitrous like steriods... yeah bigger, faster, more powerful, yeah yeah, but it's cheating.

I'd rather hear turbo whine and BOVs any day <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
nitrous is for straight line silliness... people here aren't really about the quarter mile or wangan... we're about the handling, the real world performance... nitrous through the twisties? no thanks.

[rancid240]

Basically what I want is a 200HP daily driver. &nbsp;I want a 3" Exhaust and nice BOV, with just enough balls to beat those little riceboys. &nbsp;I take good care of the engine (since i bought it in november), I am the second owner and the lady before me had all the service records...I trust it a lot, but right now i cant find a suitable manifold or a place to make one for $200. &nbsp;Also, when i buy a t3 from a junkyard, how do i check for "play" and what else should i look for?

[s15dude]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rancid240 @ April 24 2002,2:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Basically what I want is a 200HP daily driver. I want a 3" Exhaust and nice BOV, with just enough balls to beat those little riceboys. I take good care of the engine (since i bought it in november), I am the second owner and the lady before me had all the service records...I trust it a lot, but right now i cant find a suitable manifold or a place to make one for $200. Also, when i buy a t3 from a junkyard, how do i check for "play" and what else should i look for?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
If you only want ~200 then an SR redtop would work for you. But if you can fab some of your own parts, then it would be cheaper to do the KA. Me and my dad are welding our own manifold, piping and rebuilding most of the block ourselves. I bought a used intercooler and turbo and just need to buy pistons, JWT ECU, injectors, and an exhuast. So we are looking at spending around $2500 for 250-300 hp @the rear wheels. &nbsp;I'll keep everyone updated on how each step goes, and the money I spent. &nbsp;If you can weld very well, where my dad comes in, then a manifold shouldnot be very hard to make.

[Jeff240sx]

I have a GREAT idea.
Rancid240, ask s15dude if his dad will weld you a manifold for ~$200. &nbsp;That would make some money for s15dude's dad, and you get a manifold.

Other than that, you can buy REBUILT turbos from manufacturers and ebay. &nbsp;They are not too much more than a junkyard turbo. &nbsp;I've seen turbo and intercoolers go for 300 on ebay. &nbsp;And the turbo was rebuilt. &nbsp;
SHOP AROUND PEOPLE!
I've spent countless hours shopping around for my turbo setup, and I know what I'm getting, where to get it, and how much it'll cost.
-Jeff

[rancid240]

S15dude, i hope your dad is making SOHC manifolds. &nbsp;If so, can he make me one for $200? &nbsp;I live in Los Angeles so i can commute down there. late

[bing]

i got tha sohc, with 181 km's and counting,

if i keep the car a few more years, which may verywell be the case, i would consider a turbo, and would most likely buy a KA24DE at a yard for minimal coinage, with low miles and turbo that.

i dont have the tech know-how, but i know i would turbo your car with that mileage, and if your gonna rebuild, just get dohc, you'll have 15 extra ponies right off the bat and it's a basic swap, a few minor bolt ons will give you another 8-15 ponies, thats 30 and you dont even have a turbo yet. i'd go that route, it's prolly cheaper and you can take you time and do things slow and properly with little wallet pressure

[s15dude]

<!--QuoteBegin--rancid240+April 25 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rancid240 @ April 25 2002,12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">S15dude, i hope your dad is making SOHC manifolds. If so, can he make me one for $200? I live in Los Angeles so i can commute down there. late</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
We have thought about that. Not sure what the price would be yet though. I have 3 more weeks of school, then we are going to start fabbing up the parts. I am building it for a DOHC motor, I heard that they aren't the same. I'll keep everyone updated on my progress along with some pics. But it would not be hard to make one for a different head as long as there is a pattern to follow for the flange. I am buying a 91 240 in a couple of weeks. But I plan on pulling the motor and putting in forged pistons, abd possible a nice port and polish. &nbsp;I also might cut down the intake manifold to make the runners short(anyone done this?) and remove the butterflies.