Compressor Surge on s14 sr20 - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

GabeS14 · 12-24-2007, 08:00 PM

I dont think it sounded bad at all man...
Mine sounds like a lazer...almost like i had a giant turbo on a supra!(exageration

) but something like that

so yea, yours is minimal!

s15 sr20 guy · 12-25-2007, 03:52 PM

earlier today i put on a different MBC and it did not solve the problem, so we can eliminate the MBC as a possible cause. i am guessing i needt to try a different type of BOV. so i am gonna try to borrow one from someone because i dont want to spend $200 on one if it wont fix the problem. before i do that i will try is recirculating the BOV to see if that makes a difference. i have a hose that fits around the bov and all i need is a reducer to put it back to my intake. i am hoping recirculating it will fix the problem since it is the cheapest fix

garagelu · 12-25-2007, 04:20 PM

Are you not listening to everyone thats posting on this thread?

First of all the boost controller has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. Second, recirculating the bov will do absolutely nothing also. Third, a different bov will fix it. If you want absolutely no compressor surge, go with a hks ssqv. They have two valves that work pretty well.

You know, me and two other people have already told you that the r2d2 bov acts the same as yours. So does it not make sense to you that its not anything else but the bov. Why would you think to recirculate or check the boost controller.

Here are really the only choices you have. Try to lube the inner piston wall of the bov, change the location of the bov closer to the turbo, or get another bov. And like I said before compressor surge doesnt hurt BB turbos that bad. Journal bearing turbos get messed up from it the most. As long as the bov is releasing air, there is nothing to worry about. Its blowing off so its doing its job. If you are so worried about it, just sell your r2d2 and buy another bov.

sbanzer123 · 12-25-2007, 04:28 PM

i sort of have the same problem with my s14. i have a s14 sr20 with a tial bov. as you know there is no way of adjusting the tial, besides swapping out springs. my bov will go off everytime, but the more pressure i make or the faster i shift and get back on the throttle the less surge there is. i have my bov ran on its own seperate line off the throttle body, my boost gauge is t'd off of the fuel pressure regulator, and my wastegate is on its own seperate line off the hotpipe.

s15 sr20 guy · 12-25-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbanzer123

i sort of have the same problem with my s14. i have a s14 sr20 with a tial bov. as you know there is no way of adjusting the tial, besides swapping out springs. my bov will go off everytime, but the more pressure i make or the faster i shift and get back on the throttle the less surge there is. i have my bov ran on its own seperate line off the throttle body, my boost gauge is t'd off of the fuel pressure regulator, and my wastegate is on its own seperate line off the hotpipe.

thats how mine is except i am on the cold pipe.

s15 sr20 guy · 12-25-2007, 04:31 PM

I have been listening to everyone and i have been doing everything that people have been suggesting to me, but you have to understand that i want to try everything possible before spending $200-$300 on a new BOV. I have been talking to other people about my issues as well and they have suggested recirculating the bov which i will gladly try because it cant hurt anything. trying other things wont hurt anything but i will try a new bov and see how that goes.

garagelu · 12-25-2007, 04:42 PM

I can guarantee that recirculating the bov will do absolutely nothing for you. It will be even worse because you wont be able to hear the bov and all you will hear is the surging. Plus good luck running a hose all the way from the cold pipe over to the intake. And please try to understand the concept of recirculating the bov. Once you understand you will figure out that it has nothing to do with compressor surge. And yes it cant hurt anything but if you want to fix the problem, you are just wasting your time and energy.

And how are you spending 200-300 dollars on a bov. Go buy a used hks ssqv for around 100-130 dollars. You should be able to sell the sard for 100-130 or even return the r2d2 if you bought it new.

I have run my r2d2 on my 2871r for over a year and my turbo is still perfect.

johngriff · 12-25-2007, 04:43 PM

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first post.

That BOV is garbage can material.

Wrecked a friend new 50 trim in about 75 miles.

I am sure the damage is less on a stock turbo, but it makes sense that once you let the turbo create more volume, it cannot vent it, HENCE FORTH, creating surge.

So get a better blow off valve.

sbanzer123 · 12-26-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngriff

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first post.

That BOV is garbage can material.

Wrecked a friend new 50 trim in about 75 miles.

I am sure the damage is less on a stock turbo, but it makes sense that once you let the turbo create more volume, it cannot vent it, HENCE FORTH, creating surge.

So get a better blow off valve.

i am having the same problem with my tial as i said above. and i know thats not a garbage bov and yes it is genuine, i ordered it from full-race. i was thinking of putting some washers on top of the spring on mine to preload it and see if that helps at all, this would be the same thing as loosening a adjustable one.

GSXRJJordan · 12-26-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbanzer123

i am having the same problem with my tial as i said above. and i know thats not a garbage bov and yes it is genuine, i ordered it from full-race. i was thinking of putting some washers on top of the spring on mine to preload it and see if that helps at all, this would be the same thing as loosening a adjustable one.

Pre-loading the spring will actually make it take MORE change in vacuum to get it to open, not less. Order up the spring set, and try the softer spring; most likely, you'll go back to the suggested spring and learn to live with a little compressor surge. And like Matej says... its cool =P

s15 sr20 guy · 12-25-2007, 05:07 PM

i am looking for a hks ssqv bov now. hopefully i will find one for a good deal.

GSXRJJordan · 12-26-2007, 01:21 AM

^^^ Yup. McRuss esta correctamente otra vez.

I don't agree that the R2D2 is trash, as John so elegantly put it, but I will say that for what a BOV does (vent boost in an efficient manner), the SSQV is technologically superior. I just hate the sound, and for the most part, it's all the same to my 'stock' turbo.

jspaeth · 12-26-2007, 10:04 AM

^^ I understand they don't just change direction hahahah....that would be kind of hard for something to go from 100000 RPM to 0 in a tenth of a second

I was just saying that clearly with the BOV not opening, it puts more backpressure on the compressor wheel

Matej · 12-26-2007, 02:44 PM

I thought compressor surge was cool.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...mpressor+surge

sbanzer123 · 12-26-2007, 07:57 PM

i dont really mind it too much i was just adding my .02

johngriff · 12-26-2007, 08:11 PM

Well I like to shit can stuff as soon as it breaks things 3 times its cost.

Like afc's.

But just by looking at the R2D2 valve, its just too small for larger serious setups. I like the HKS in THEORY, BUT, it wears after about 2 years of regular use, since the internals are made of plastic.

Or you could go twin or triple bov!! Three R2D2 valves, just add more until you dont have surge.

And yes, the tial is a tricky SOB.

s15 sr20 guy · 12-27-2007, 08:44 AM

What is a bigger bov that would help eliminate compressor surge besides a hks ssqv. would a greddy bov be better than my sard r2d2

GSXRJJordan · 12-27-2007, 08:57 AM

I don't understand why everyone thinks they need bigger BOVs. Bigger valve means they can blow off more air, true, but at the expense of response time. The first boost spike (as soon as the throttle plate closes, before there's much vacuum change) is the most harmful - you're going to get that regardless. The only reason you'd need a bigger BOV (like a Greddy type R/etc) is if you had a bigger turbo pushing a ridiculous amount of air - and all the big turbos have anti-compressor-surge housings.

s15 sr20 guy · 12-27-2007, 10:43 AM

ok....i didnt know that, this is my first turbo vehicle. so if i am understanding you correctly getting a greddy rs bov will help surge but will hurt response. sorry if i sound like a slow idiot but i am with this turbo stuff. my last car was an all motor honda.

garagelu · 12-27-2007, 11:08 AM

no he is talking about the greddy type r bov not the type rs. The type r bov will hurt response because it is designed to move a lot of air for high horsepower cars that run more than 25-30 psi. The type rs would be another good candidate for a bov. Basically what everyone is trying to tell you is that if you arnt happy with the r2d2 just buy another one. Pick one and stick with it. All bov basically do the same thing, just two different designs...push type and pull type.

And also I disagree with johngriff about the r2d2 being too small for larger setups. I used to have a blitz DD and I have taken apart both. Both are basically the same design and same component with a different housing. The spring size and rate and the piston size are both about the same. But really I dont know what you consider a larger setup. If I was pushing a big turbo with 30+ psi of course I would run a greddy type r or a tial.

Koopa Troopa · 12-27-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garagelu

no he is talking about the greddy type r bov not the type rs. The type r bov will hurt response because it is designed to move a lot of air for high horsepower cars that run more than 25-30 psi. The type rs would be another good candidate for a bov. Basically what everyone is trying to tell you is that if you arnt happy with the r2d2 just buy another one. Pick one and stick with it. All bov basically do the same thing, just two different designs...push type and pull type.

And also I disagree with johngriff about the r2d2 being too small for larger setups. I used to have a blitz DD and I have taken apart both. Both are basically the same design and same component with a different housing. The spring size and rate and the piston size are both about the same. But really I dont know what you consider a larger setup. If I was pushing a big turbo with 30+ psi of course I would run a greddy type r or a tial.

Uh, I have a Greddy Type R and I have tightened it down quiet a bit and it has no problem opening with .5kg on a T04S....

My friend tightened his Type R down so much the screw snapped and it still opens with stock turbos and boost on his GTR...

I also know plenty of people who are very happy with their Type R's on close to stock motors.

SoSideways · 12-27-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koopa Troopa

Uh, I have a Greddy Type R and I have tightened it down quiet a bit and it has no problem opening with .5kg on a T04S....

My friend tightened his Type R down so much the screw snapped and it still opens with stock turbos and boost on his GTR...

I also know plenty of people who are very happy with their Type R's on close to stock motors.

I'm one of those guys that are running a Greddy Type R w/ a close to stock motor.

Stock T25 finally blew up on my yesterday. Oil seal is gone, giving me the infamous 007 smoke screen.

However, I highly doubt it was my BOV's fault that my craptastic T25 blew up.

garagelu · 12-27-2007, 03:30 PM

I never said the greddy type r would ever have problems opening on stock boost or stock turbo. I just said its designed for bigger setups due to the larger body and stiffer spring.

And I disagree about running the type r on stock setups. If the spring is designed be say a 14 psi spring, then 7 psi will open it up at a slower rate resulting in slower release of the pressure. And of course stock boost will open the bov, but like I said it will be at a slower rate. I think there are cheaper and better bov when running stock boost.

And honestly why is everyone making such a big deal about which bov is best. Choosing one bov over another isn't going to make a significant difference in horsepower or even response gain. And given that bov like the greddy, sard, or blitz moves air at a 90 degree angle, the air is being pushed out at such a fast rate that the radius wouldnt affect it much at all.

s15 sr20 guy · 12-27-2007, 12:12 PM

thanks that was very helpful and informative

johngriff · 12-27-2007, 01:30 PM

Yeah, a larger bov isn't going to hurt response.

Because both valve's will close when pressure is equalized between the intake manifold and the charge pipe, and open when there is a difference.

Oh and blitz DD? AYFK?! I am not fond of the smaller valves that force the air to make a 90 to vent. I like the tial, and the PWR which I sell:
http://www.rpsport.net/c=tcbai3h4ecT...Off_Valve.html

If you look at the exploded view, you can see that air exits from all sides at a variant rate based on the cut in the body, allowing varying amounts of air to be released as equality is realized. The reaction time on this and the tial valve is fast because it does not need to open as much to vent the same amount of air as the smaller 90deg valves.

12-24-2007, 08:00 PM	#1
GabeS14 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sin City Las Vegas Posts: 4,521 Trader Rating: (27) Rides Gallery: GabeS14 Feedback Score: 27 reviews	I dont think it sounded bad at all man... Mine sounds like a lazer...almost like i had a giant turbo on a supra!(exageration ) but something like that so yea, yours is minimal! __________________ E92 M3 19" wheels for sale///JWT Cams and Springs +30whp for sale... cheap.

12-25-2007, 04:43 PM	#8
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I didn't read the whole thread, just the first post. That BOV is garbage can material. Wrecked a friend new 50 trim in about 75 miles. I am sure the damage is less on a stock turbo, but it makes sense that once you let the turbo create more volume, it cannot vent it, HENCE FORTH, creating surge. So get a better blow off valve. __________________ [email protected]

12-26-2007, 01:21 AM	#12
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	^^^ Yup. McRuss esta correctamente otra vez. I don't agree that the R2D2 is trash, as John so elegantly put it, but I will say that for what a BOV does (vent boost in an efficient manner), the SSQV is technologically superior. I just hate the sound, and for the most part, it's all the same to my 'stock' turbo. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

12-26-2007, 10:04 AM	#13
jspaeth Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Philadelphia suburbs Age: 40 Posts: 2,347 Trader Rating: (7) Rides Gallery: jspaeth Feedback Score: 7 reviews	^^ I understand they don't just change direction hahahah....that would be kind of hard for something to go from 100000 RPM to 0 in a tenth of a second I was just saying that clearly with the BOV not opening, it puts more backpressure on the compressor wheel __________________ Daily driven

12-26-2007, 08:11 PM	#16
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Well I like to shit can stuff as soon as it breaks things 3 times its cost. Like afc's. But just by looking at the R2D2 valve, its just too small for larger serious setups. I like the HKS in THEORY, BUT, it wears after about 2 years of regular use, since the internals are made of plastic. Or you could go twin or triple bov!! Three R2D2 valves, just add more until you dont have surge. And yes, the tial is a tricky SOB. __________________ [email protected]

12-25-2007, 03:52 PM	#2
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	earlier today i put on a different MBC and it did not solve the problem, so we can eliminate the MBC as a possible cause. i am guessing i needt to try a different type of BOV. so i am gonna try to borrow one from someone because i dont want to spend $200 on one if it wont fix the problem. before i do that i will try is recirculating the BOV to see if that makes a difference. i have a hose that fits around the bov and all i need is a reducer to put it back to my intake. i am hoping recirculating it will fix the problem since it is the cheapest fix

12-25-2007, 04:20 PM	#3
garagelu Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 40 Posts: 1,856 Trader Rating: (60) Feedback Score: 60 reviews	Are you not listening to everyone thats posting on this thread? First of all the boost controller has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. Second, recirculating the bov will do absolutely nothing also. Third, a different bov will fix it. If you want absolutely no compressor surge, go with a hks ssqv. They have two valves that work pretty well. You know, me and two other people have already told you that the r2d2 bov acts the same as yours. So does it not make sense to you that its not anything else but the bov. Why would you think to recirculate or check the boost controller. Here are really the only choices you have. Try to lube the inner piston wall of the bov, change the location of the bov closer to the turbo, or get another bov. And like I said before compressor surge doesnt hurt BB turbos that bad. Journal bearing turbos get messed up from it the most. As long as the bov is releasing air, there is nothing to worry about. Its blowing off so its doing its job. If you are so worried about it, just sell your r2d2 and buy another bov.

12-25-2007, 04:28 PM	#4
sbanzer123 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Buffalo, NY Age: 36 Posts: 534 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	i sort of have the same problem with my s14. i have a s14 sr20 with a tial bov. as you know there is no way of adjusting the tial, besides swapping out springs. my bov will go off everytime, but the more pressure i make or the faster i shift and get back on the throttle the less surge there is. i have my bov ran on its own seperate line off the throttle body, my boost gauge is t'd off of the fuel pressure regulator, and my wastegate is on its own seperate line off the hotpipe.

12-25-2007, 04:31 PM	#6
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have been listening to everyone and i have been doing everything that people have been suggesting to me, but you have to understand that i want to try everything possible before spending $200-$300 on a new BOV. I have been talking to other people about my issues as well and they have suggested recirculating the bov which i will gladly try because it cant hurt anything. trying other things wont hurt anything but i will try a new bov and see how that goes.

12-25-2007, 04:42 PM	#7
garagelu Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 40 Posts: 1,856 Trader Rating: (60) Feedback Score: 60 reviews	I can guarantee that recirculating the bov will do absolutely nothing for you. It will be even worse because you wont be able to hear the bov and all you will hear is the surging. Plus good luck running a hose all the way from the cold pipe over to the intake. And please try to understand the concept of recirculating the bov. Once you understand you will figure out that it has nothing to do with compressor surge. And yes it cant hurt anything but if you want to fix the problem, you are just wasting your time and energy. And how are you spending 200-300 dollars on a bov. Go buy a used hks ssqv for around 100-130 dollars. You should be able to sell the sard for 100-130 or even return the r2d2 if you bought it new. I have run my r2d2 on my 2871r for over a year and my turbo is still perfect.

12-25-2007, 05:07 PM	#11
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i am looking for a hks ssqv bov now. hopefully i will find one for a good deal.

12-26-2007, 02:44 PM	#14
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	I thought compressor surge was cool. http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...mpressor+surge

12-26-2007, 07:57 PM	#15
sbanzer123 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Buffalo, NY Age: 36 Posts: 534 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	i dont really mind it too much i was just adding my .02

12-27-2007, 08:44 AM	#17
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What is a bigger bov that would help eliminate compressor surge besides a hks ssqv. would a greddy bov be better than my sard r2d2

12-27-2007, 08:57 AM	#18
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I don't understand why everyone thinks they need bigger BOVs. Bigger valve means they can blow off more air, true, but at the expense of response time. The first boost spike (as soon as the throttle plate closes, before there's much vacuum change) is the most harmful - you're going to get that regardless. The only reason you'd need a bigger BOV (like a Greddy type R/etc) is if you had a bigger turbo pushing a ridiculous amount of air - and all the big turbos have anti-compressor-surge housings. __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

12-27-2007, 10:43 AM	#19
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ok....i didnt know that, this is my first turbo vehicle. so if i am understanding you correctly getting a greddy rs bov will help surge but will hurt response. sorry if i sound like a slow idiot but i am with this turbo stuff. my last car was an all motor honda.

12-27-2007, 11:08 AM	#20
garagelu Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 40 Posts: 1,856 Trader Rating: (60) Feedback Score: 60 reviews	no he is talking about the greddy type r bov not the type rs. The type r bov will hurt response because it is designed to move a lot of air for high horsepower cars that run more than 25-30 psi. The type rs would be another good candidate for a bov. Basically what everyone is trying to tell you is that if you arnt happy with the r2d2 just buy another one. Pick one and stick with it. All bov basically do the same thing, just two different designs...push type and pull type. And also I disagree with johngriff about the r2d2 being too small for larger setups. I used to have a blitz DD and I have taken apart both. Both are basically the same design and same component with a different housing. The spring size and rate and the piston size are both about the same. But really I dont know what you consider a larger setup. If I was pushing a big turbo with 30+ psi of course I would run a greddy type r or a tial.

12-27-2007, 03:30 PM	#23
garagelu Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 40 Posts: 1,856 Trader Rating: (60) Feedback Score: 60 reviews	I never said the greddy type r would ever have problems opening on stock boost or stock turbo. I just said its designed for bigger setups due to the larger body and stiffer spring. And I disagree about running the type r on stock setups. If the spring is designed be say a 14 psi spring, then 7 psi will open it up at a slower rate resulting in slower release of the pressure. And of course stock boost will open the bov, but like I said it will be at a slower rate. I think there are cheaper and better bov when running stock boost. And honestly why is everyone making such a big deal about which bov is best. Choosing one bov over another isn't going to make a significant difference in horsepower or even response gain. And given that bov like the greddy, sard, or blitz moves air at a 90 degree angle, the air is being pushed out at such a fast rate that the radius wouldnt affect it much at all.

12-27-2007, 12:12 PM	#24
s15 sr20 guy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: va Posts: 39 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks that was very helpful and informative

12-27-2007, 01:30 PM	#25
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Yeah, a larger bov isn't going to hurt response. Because both valve's will close when pressure is equalized between the intake manifold and the charge pipe, and open when there is a difference. Oh and blitz DD? AYFK?! I am not fond of the smaller valves that force the air to make a 90 to vent. I like the tial, and the PWR which I sell: http://www.rpsport.net/c=tcbai3h4ecT...Off_Valve.html If you look at the exploded view, you can see that air exits from all sides at a variant rate based on the cut in the body, allowing varying amounts of air to be released as equality is realized. The reaction time on this and the tial valve is fast because it does not need to open as much to vent the same amount of air as the smaller 90deg valves. __________________ [email protected]