The fabrication thread.

[STR8E180]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

No No Australia has to catch up with everyone else and use stainless steal you see that header above you its stainless and looks fucking awesome without being coated and will never rust. Mild steal might be cheaper but it will never be better the stainless

no no no
its all about bling bling these days
u need to stop caring about wat LOOKS good and start caring about wat performs better
we dont use mild steel because its cheaper we use it because it handles heat better
stainless doesnt handle heat as good when it gets hot it changes shape and all sorts of shit this is why u get alot of stainless manifolds failing and cracking and leaking at the flange plate

we get alot of customers come into the workshop with HKS, TRUST manifolds which have cracked and they ask us to make copy's of them out of steam pipe

this manifold cracked then we repaired it and added more bracing

and it still cracked again then the owner went with a steam pipe manifold and its going strong



we have been making steam pipe mild steel manifolds for around 10 years and we sell our manifolds with life time warranty and in that 10 years we have only had 1 come back due to a crack

the joys of stainless manifolds







the only stainless manifold i would ever use is full-race
normal 316 grade stainless like HKS, TRUST manifolds are junk

[STR8E180]

finished of the intercooler piping and exhaust system

[S14_Kouki]

I can agree with you on one thing that cheap stainless manifolds crack. The reason for this hks, trust, megan all those manifold are built with thin wall weak ass material so they can produce more manifolds for cheaper and put more money in there pocket. Now for my manifolds im prob using the same pipe as you just in stainless. I have never never never had one of my manifolds come back for anything iv been doing this with my friend danny for over 5 years now never 1 problem. We had built manifolds from 300hp civics to supras that have made over 1500 whp never any problems with our stainless manifolds. Looks do count on cars now a days people dont want u to pop your hood and see some piece of shit. I dont want shit looking products on my car do you???
You say you would use a full race manifold?? You know full race manifolds are made from stainless right?? BTW my manifolds are full race copies so I use the SAME materials as full race I just sell my hundreds of dollars cheaper cause im not trying to rip ppl off and my welds are just as strong if not stronger. Just a quick search mild steel and stainless both have about the same melting point at around 2700 degrees.

[kingkilburn]

But at what temp are the two malleable? That will be well bellow the melting point.

[TIG]

Originally Posted by STR8E180

we dont use mild steel because its cheaper we use it because it handles heat better
stainless doesnt handle heat as good when it gets hot it changes shape and all sorts of shit this is why u get alot of stainless manifolds failing and cracking and leaking at the flange plate

we get alot of customers come into the workshop with HKS, TRUST manifolds which have cracked and they ask us to make copy's of them out of steam pipe

First off, I'd like to commend your work thats been done, its very well done. My only disagreement is with some material properties. First off, the three pictures you posted are "chinese-knockoff" manifolds, who knows if the stainless they're using is regulated stainless. Especially since the grades of stainless are controlled by strict sanctioning bodies in America/Europe. Not to mention the welding rod used, was it a mild steel rod, a 308L rod, etc.

"we dont use mild steel because its cheaper we use it because it handles heat better"

Stainless and mild steel have very similar coefficients of expansion. On average a turbo manifold will expand ~.010". Mild steel has a coefficient of 7.3e-6 in/F where as 3xxSS has an coefficient of ~8.0e-6 in/F. That means with a 1300F Difference in temperature the 3xxSS will only expand ~.0005" over mild steel.

The difficulty with stainless manifolds is a lot of people don't really know how to weld them. I've seen lot of cheap chinese companies that didn't back purge the welds, thus causing crystalizing. Beyond that there are several other factors to consider.

I've seen several tubular manifolds using 16Gage tube. Hang a 30lb turbo from that without any support and it will stress the manifold with heat cycling regardless of material.

Gas pipe is thicker than most tube in tubular manifolds. For 6 cylinder motors I have used Sch10 (.109 wall) stainless piping. I've still not had one of these crack or any manifolds I've built out of .083 wall tube. Its not so much the metallurgy as much as it is the process of welding and the dimensions of the material.

My last issue with gas pipe is that its not seamless, it is welded. For the same size tubing and same materials, seamless is usually stronger than welded. The other problem I have with welded tube is that it doesn't flow nearly as well as seamless. Granted this isn't really a big deal with most applications but I've designed manifolds to be extremely efficient with the least amount of tumbling and degression of velocity.

Like I said at the beginning, your work is well done. But don't post misconstrued information about stainless being a poor choice of material for manifolds when there are many other factors to consider rather than the metal itself.

S14_Kouki has built some phenomenal stainless manifolds on that note, too.

[atutt]

Originally Posted by TIG

First off, I'd like to commend your work thats been done, its very well done. My only disagreement is with some material properties. First off, the three pictures you posted are "chinese-knockoff" manifolds, who knows if the stainless they're using is regulated stainless. Especially since the grades of stainless are controlled by strict sanctioning bodies in America/Europe. Not to mention the welding rod used, was it a mild steel rod, a 308L rod, etc.

"we dont use mild steel because its cheaper we use it because it handles heat better"

Stainless and mild steel have very similar coefficients of expansion. On average a turbo manifold will expand ~.010". Mild steel has a coefficient of 7.3e-6 in/F where as 3xxSS has an coefficient of ~8.0e-6 in/F. That means with a 1300F Difference in temperature the 3xxSS will only expand ~.0005" over mild steel.

The difficulty with stainless manifolds is a lot of people don't really know how to weld them. I've seen lot of cheap chinese companies that back purged the welds, thus causing crystalizing. Beyond that there are several other factors to consider.

I've seen several tubular manifolds using 16Gage tube. Hang a 30lb turbo from that without any support and it will stress the manifold with heat cycling regardless of material.

Gas pipe is thicker than most tube in tubular manifolds. For 6 cylinder motors I have used Sch10 (.109 wall) stainless piping. I've still not had one of these crack or any manifolds I've built out of .083 wall tube. Its not so much the metallurgy as much as it is the process of welding and the dimensions of the material.

My last issue with gas pipe is that its not seamless, it is welded. For the same size tubing and same materials, seamless is usually stronger than welded. The other problem I have with welded tube is that it doesn't flow nearly as well as seamless. Granted this isn't really a big deal with most applications but I've designed manifolds to be extremely efficient with the least amount of tumbling and degression of velocity.

Like I said at the beginning, your work is well done. But don't post misconstrued information about stainless being a poor choice of material for manifolds when there are many other factors to consider rather than the metal itself.

S14_Kouki has built some phenomenal stainless manifolds on that note, too.

I'm assuming that's a typo?
Back purging does NOT create crystallization. It prevents it.

And S14_Kouki... You need to tighten up those TIG beads. The spacing between them is way to much. Unless you're doing a root pass and that's a cap.
If that's the first and only pass, they need to be tighter.

[TIG]

Originally Posted by atutt

I'm assuming that's a typo?
Back purging does NOT create crystallization. It prevents it.

Yes! That was a major typo! Oops, just another reason I should proof-read before posting. Thanks, I fixed it in my original post.

[atutt]

^Good call!

On a side note...
I think I'm gonna cave and buy a stupid MIG welder....

Tired of doing EVERY FUCKING THING with a TIG... It's becoming a pain in the ass... especially body work. It doesn't like the TIG...

[STR8E180]

its some thing we wont see eye to eye on
ill always chose mild steel steam pipe over stainless bends for exhaust manifolds even if its thick walled stainless ill still pick mild steel steam pipe

[S14_Kouki]

TIG
Thank u for the complement

atutt
Yes, the beads were to far apart and they were fixed
and I feel you on getting a mig I would love one as well for mocking up exhaust, dp's, ect ect

STR8E180
We will not see eye to eye on this. But theres alot of things ppl dont agree on so you have your mild steal and ill have my stainless the fab work on the car is good tho I really like the intake manifold.

[atutt]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

TIG
Thank u for the complement

atutt
Yes, the beads were to far apart and they were fixed
and I feel you on getting a mig I would love one as well for mocking up exhaust, dp's, ect ect

STR8E180
We will not see eye to eye on this. But theres alot of things ppl dont agree on so you have your mild steal and ill have my stainless the fab work on the car is good tho I really like the intake manifold.

I'm not a fan of ANY kind of MIG... I used to be MIG and Stick only... Now I've been doing so much TIG and for so long, I hate everything else, lol.

I just need a MIG for body work mostly. TIG warps the fuck out of sheet metal, haha

[S14_Kouki]

I started tig welding first then went from there and leard stick and mig. Its so so much easier tacking exhaust under a car laying down with a mig then tig. Yes tig is not the thing to do sheet metal with. But I will pick up a tig welder over and mig welder anyday

[om3ga]

str8e180 What intake manifold is that? Also what valve cover is that? That is an SR right hahaha

[S14_Kouki]

Heres another little something I built. Log manifold a/c saver and dp for a Saturn
This was one of my first manifolds.

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by atutt

^Good call!

On a side note...
I think I'm gonna cave and buy a stupid MIG welder....

Tired of doing EVERY FUCKING THING with a TIG... It's becoming a pain in the ass... especially body work. It doesn't like the TIG...

Trade ya my MIG for your TIG, I pay shipping/customs

From an 'engineering' perspective, seamless SS is definitely a great choice for auto manifolds, but from what I've seen the fact that mild steel is easier to weld perfectly is the reason it's the material of choice in other parts of the world. Welding SS perfectly isn't just a skill, it's an art lol.

[STR8E180]

Originally Posted by om3ga

str8e180 What intake manifold is that? Also what valve cover is that? That is an SR right hahaha

plenum camber is custom made

valve cover is a SR20V
basically its a SR20DET bottom end with a SR20V cylinder head bolted onto it

[atutt]

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Trade ya my MIG for your TIG, I pay shipping/customs

From an 'engineering' perspective, seamless SS is definitely a great choice for auto manifolds, but from what I've seen the fact that mild steel is easier to weld perfectly is the reason it's the material of choice in other parts of the world. Welding SS perfectly isn't just a skill, it's an art lol.

Lol... Maybe if I buy a new Dynasty 350!

I beg to differ on the second part.
I believe it's easier to weld SS perfectly as opposed to MS.
Reason. Mild steel if FULL of iron and other impurities. Making it harder to achieve a high quality weld (in terms of an x-ray test) and a high quality looking weld. good quality SS doesn't have many (it shouldn't have any to be honest) impurities and iron in it.
Thus, making it easier to get a good looking weld while maintaining high weld quality.

Just my opinion.

[S14_Kouki]

^ hey we use a 200dx

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by STR8E180

plenum camber is custom made

valve cover is a SR20V
basically its a SR20DET bottom end with a SR20V cylinder head bolted onto it

definetly keep me updated on that here at the shop we are building a car almost identical to yours lol what engine management are you going to use? we have switched over from the Turbonetics Unit to a GT35R. and have our eyes set on a Haltec

[S14_Kouki]

^^ Nice cage looks good as well and haltec is a good system

[STR8E180]

Originally Posted by bardabe

definetly keep me updated on that here at the shop we are building a car almost identical to yours lol what engine management are you going to use? we have switched over from the Turbonetics Unit to a GT35R. and have our eyes set on a Haltec

im using a haltech E11v2 with the haltech MXL dash

i had a GT3076R .78 twinscoll B4 this but sold it for the GT-K 500
its being built as a circuit car so i didnt want some thing to big

wats the specs of the one ur building?

[STR8E180]

Originally Posted by bardabe

definetly keep me updated on that here at the shop we are building a car almost identical to yours lol what engine management are you going to use? we have switched over from the Turbonetics Unit to a GT35R. and have our eyes set on a Haltec

im using a haltech E11v2 with the haltech MXL dash

i had a GT3076R .78 twinscoll B4 this but sold it for the GT-K 500
its being built as a circuit car so i didnt want some thing to big

wats the specs of the one ur building?

[STR8E180]

bardabe

wats the specs on the one ur building

oh almost forgot
im using a haltech E11V2 with haltech MXL dash

[xpertsnowcarver]

Originally Posted by S14_Kouki

Oh man. That's outstanding.

[S14_Kouki]

^thank you ^
heres some of our other work since this is the fab section

These are all supra manifolds we made


Some collectors for the manifolds


Some honda collectors


Some random welding


This is a 650-700whp ka-t we build intake, IC piping, manifold, DP, exhaust ect ect



1500whp supra manifold


evo engine in a AWD civic making 650whp

[STR8E180]

looks like u guys push out alot of manifolds

its hard pushing out products like that here in australia
alot of people use those cheap shit manifolds of ebay only the full serious performance freaks spend money on custom manifolds

ill throw up some photos as well
these are just random happy snaps taken from the workshop

R33 GTR
twin GT35
hypertune plenum
BIG POWER!








this is an RX8 running a custom V mount with GT-K 650

[S14_Kouki]

Yea alot over a period of time lol we actully need alot more work things are slowing down.
Thats a awesome set up on the skyline good job.
Pretty much we built everything on all these cars IC piping, IC end tanks, Manifolds, DP, exhaust, what ever needs fab work we did,
Here is a 500hp k20 sidewinder one of our projects


The fucking crazy teg doing like around 670whp We did everything IC end tanks, IC piping, manifold, DP ect ect


The srt4 we are finishing up now this is going to be around 650whp


And our friends fully Stock LS putting down alittle over 300 whp With everything built by use.

[blu808]

Shit dude. Nice work guys.

[KasperSlide]

this was done at verocious motorsports DE wilmington my friend Dan noji works there. he made it in an hr or so

intake with recirc

[bardabe]

Originally Posted by STR8E180

bardabe

wats the specs on the one ur building

oh almost forgot
im using a haltech E11V2 with haltech MXL dash

nice, the one im building is using CP Pistons, Corillo Rods, then the custom head work to get the VVL head to work with the RWD Block, and i can't disclose soo much on the head as we have some prototype stuff in there but once its tested and working if the companies allow I shall provide with the details on the Headwork.