Switzerland bans mosque towers

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

If the Swiss are really all about protecting culture and heritage, then what is this McDonald's to move European HQ to Geneva | Business | guardian.co.uk sounds like an awesome example of swiss culture to me.

I think this is more a battle of the West vs. the Middle East, not necessarily the Islamic faith. People just automatically associate Middle Easterners and Islam, as Islam is a really visible facet of the immigrating Middle Easterners. McDonald's can move in because it doesn't represent a radical shift from Western culture as a whole. This is possibly why there arent really any tensions between Americans of Caucasian descent and immigrant Hispanics- most immigrating Hispanics are Catholic, and for the most part hold dear the same core values. To me, the language is the biggest barrier, not the culture itself. Just my .02.

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

What if YOUR way of life and heritage are under attack by people you didn't invite into your home?

HOW are the Swiss "way of life" and "heritage" under attack?

Didn't invite into your home? Explain please.

[kingkilburn]

Illegal immigrants building massive towers blasting calls to prayer and prayers meant to convert non believers. Violent gangs beating up who ever they like while crying "hate crime" when people retaliate. Not to mention the usual running your daughter over or beating your wife beyond recognition.

A lot of these people believe that they are supposed to destroy our way of life if we don't convert and do it ourselves. That with the fact that so many refuse to assimilate to any degree makes me very wary.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

What if YOUR way of life and heritage are under attack by people you didn't invite into your home?

I think that was the Klans original argument.
thankgod we didnt back them up.
not really, but just saying.


there are plenty of crazy religions with fucked up beliefs.
I find the easiest way to get rid of that shit is to let them in.
Let them mix their culture with yours and dilude those arcaic beliefs and se how silly it is.
By banning them, your just gonna strengthen the anger and determination and make them a martre.


I hope they ban swiss army knife sales and hot cocoa in retaliations! lol

[kingkilburn]

That's all fine for those that come here wishing to be American but for those that come just to reap the benefits of our country while trying to spread their back asswards beliefs and customs can stay in the country.

I stand by that for immigrants from any country.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Illegal immigrants building massive towers blasting calls to prayer and prayers meant to convert non believers. Violent gangs beating up who ever they like while crying "hate crime" when people retaliate. Not to mention the usual running your daughter over or beating your wife beyond recognition.

A lot of these people believe that they are supposed to destroy our way of life if we don't convert and do it ourselves. That with the fact that so many refuse to assimilate to any degree makes me very wary.

Are they illegal immigrants building the towers?

Its sad to think that somebody would think those are their "usual" customs. The news told us about a couple individuals who did that, so I guess they all probably do.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

That's all fine for those that come here wishing to be American but for those that come just to reap the benefits of our country while trying to spread their back asswards beliefs and customs can stay in the country.

I stand by that for immigrants from any country.

What is an "American?"
Is the guy who wants a wife, two kids, a dog and a car in the garage the only American?

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

What is an "American?"
Is the guy who wants a wife, two kids, a dog and a car in the garage the only American?

lol, exactly.
and regardless of his whole "immigrant" deal.
once people are here, they are putting money back into our system.
buying goods, gas, food, renting houses.
Even if they are "illegal" and dont pay taxes, they still pay on everything they buy

You cannot live in America without giving into the system.
immigrant, illegal or not, still supports our economy.
Shit, illegal immigrants cant milk the government.
I would think they would be considered better than people chillin out on the dole? lol


anyways.

good morning zilvians

[kingkilburn]

Building those towers are usual customs.


You know what American is. It's undefinable but you know it when you see it.

You can cut the douche bag attitude now. Instead of trying to attack my opinions why don't you defend these people with some facts. Go prove to the Swiss people why they are wrong other wise you can kiss my ass.

[ranger240]

the only way to really balance this discusison out, is to argue a hypothetical issue of what would happen if a christian population amounting to 6-7% of the population in say Saudi Arabia wanted to build a big huge cathedral there. what would happen?


england voted against them building a mosque in london which i believe to be the largest religious-affiliated building in england, (or maybe bigger than big ben, something like that) guess what? they said no-way.

[kingkilburn]

You bet your as they would say no to that. lol

[ranger240]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

lol, exactly.

Even if they are "illegal" and dont pay taxes, they still pay on everything they buy

you dont need to include " " around illegal.. they ARE. until the laws changed they deserve no rights, except the right to get a one way bus ticket out of the country.

them not paying taxes is total crap. they shouldnt be working here anyway. if my half-polish ass went to europe and just wanted to bum around illegally, guess what? they'd kick my ass out

i would be delighted to not pay anything but sales tax a-la illegal-style

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by ranger240

you dont need to include " " around illegal.. they ARE. until the laws changed they deserve no rights, except the right to get a one way bus ticket out of the country.

them not paying taxes is total crap. they shouldnt be working here anyway. if my half-polish ass went to europe and just wanted to bum around illegally, guess what? they'd kick my ass out

i would be delighted to not pay anything but sales tax a-la illegal-style

oh, actually i do.
there are so many grey area's with the way they have Visa's and Work Permits set up.
There are so many different issues.
And half of the decisions depend if that INS person is having a good or bad day.
So, "illegal" as you say, may not be illegal.
And trust me, I work with,"illegals" that pay full taxes too. And on 6 digit incomes.


You live in Conneticut.
Your idea of illegal aliens comes out of Fox news.
But thats for another thread. lol


I think the whole point of this thread was to state how crazy it was that the Swiss would exercise some blatant bigotry and prejudice like that.

The world keeps telling the Muslims to F/O.
No wonder they got so much hate building up.
I would be mad too.
expect more shit in the future


Christians are just mad that their cross isn't as noticable on the horizan as a Giant fucking tower, lmao!!


anyways, this thread is now going nowhere.
im out ya'll, lol

[ranger240]

Originally Posted by ericcastro

You live in Conneticut.
Your idea of illegal aliens comes out of Fox news.
But thats for another thread. lol

uhhh wrong man.. i work in jersey and do deal daily with tons of undocumented factory workers.

glad you got up and got out of this thread though

[HAWAII]

at least that country is showing balls and standing by the people's decision. The government implemented what the country wants, take notes. end of story

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Building those towers are usual customs.


You know what American is. It's undefinable but you know it when you see it.

You can cut the douche bag attitude now. Instead of trying to attack my opinions why don't you defend these people with some facts. Go prove to the Swiss people why they are wrong other wise you can kiss my ass.

If you don't want your opinions to be attacked you shouldn't put them on the internet. The Swiss can fuck off to Friday's. I'm here saying that this would be unacceptable here.

Originally Posted by ranger240

the only way to really balance this discusison out, is to argue a hypothetical issue of what would happen if a christian population amounting to 6-7% of the population in say Saudi Arabia wanted to build a big huge cathedral there. what would happen?


england voted against them building a mosque in london which i believe to be the largest religious-affiliated building in england, (or maybe bigger than big ben, something like that) guess what? they said no-way.

That's completely different. You're using a specific example of an extreme case and acting like they have completely banned them.

Its disgusting that after thousands of years of hatred we haven't learned to stop being afraid of people's faith.

Originally Posted by ranger240

you dont need to include " " around illegal.. they ARE. until the laws changed they deserve no rights, except the right to get a one way bus ticket out of the country.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That's the American way.

[smellslikecurry]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

Think building codes...

we're not building giant crosses on top of buildings that stand up another 60-70ft above the building... that we put speakers in and chant a foreign dialect from.. so yeah.. cathlocs win again.. people enjoy church bells... not durka durka

that "durka durka" is the call to prayer.

you should try having some respect for other religions.

[lewisfk]

I realy dont care!! Its time for the muslim people to understand if your not part of the solution than your the problem! I have family that are muslim, and they try there hardest to show they have the same views and principals of every day Americans!

[kingkilburn]

Attacking my opinion is not debate or discussion. Why don't you tell us why you want a tower next to your home blasting durka durka, or maybe next to the Washington monument.

Personally I am not afraid of their faith, I just don't like the so called morality of the Middle East and Northern Africa. I know more than a few nonarab Muslims that can't stand the bad image the Middle East gives their religion. The same holds true for Christians that don't agree with the Vatican or Jews that don't like Israel.


Illegal is illegal. We do have open borders and people are welcome to visit(a) for work, education, or vacation. People can also become citizens(b) if they go through the proper procedures. If you don't come here through one of the two ways(a or b) you don't have ANY rights. That is nonnegotiable. There is no argument. There is no rebuttal.


I guess I will end this with
The world isn't telling Muslims to fuck off they are telling the governments of Arab countries and leaders of their faith in that part of the world to fuck off. I see no problem with that when the whole world was telling Bush to fuck off(and rightly so).

[ronmcdon]

I'm also inclined to agree the Swiss' decisions should be respected.
ultimately it's a democratic choice made by THEIR country.
what they do is their business regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Likewise if some other country bans Christian places of worship via legit means (defined by their laws not ours),
I think they ought to be entitled to it.

I can see this matter possibly being brought up in some Int'l courts.
The controversy isn't going to end anytime soon.

Worst possible scenario imo,
is the USA stepping in & imposing our laws and ethics on others.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Worst possible scenario imo,
is the USA stepping in & imposing our laws and ethics on others.

Hope not.
seems we do that already.
And it doesnt get us anywhere.

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Likewise if some other country bans Christian places of worship via legit means (defined by their laws not ours),
I think they ought to be entitled to it.

And trust me, there are places in the middle east like that. Iran has laws banning the printing of any Christian propoganda, and converting from Islam to Christianity is punishable by death.

So before you guys get all butthurt about what Switzerland is doing, maybe you should take a look at what the laws are in the Muslim controlled countries. I didn't see anybody comment on that.

[Mangudai]

Originally Posted by ryguy

And trust me, there are places in the middle east like that. Iran has laws banning the printing of any Christian propoganda, and converting from Islam to Christianity is punishable by death.

So before you guys get all butthurt about what Switzerland is doing, maybe you should take a look at what the laws are in the Muslim controlled countries. I didn't see anybody comment on that.

Your right, they're both in the wrong in MY opinion. But like stated earlier, they're their own country with their own laws and this was passed democratically. Still doesn't make it right though but I acknowledge all this.

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by Mangudai

Your right, they're both in the wrong in MY opinion. But like stated earlier, they're their own country with their own laws and this was passed democratically. Still doesn't make it right though but I acknowledge all this.

I'm just directing that to all the people who are saying Islam shouldn't be discriminated against. I'm just saying Christianity is discriminated against ten times worse in Islamic states than the West discriminates against Islam.

[cc4usmc]

Muslims comprise about 6 percent of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Many are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s and about one in 10 actively practices their religion, the government says

So this only really effects 4500 people in Switzerland. Hopefully people can keep cool in here so I've got time to post up an educated post... I'm just waiting on a teacher to get back to me with some info.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by ryguy

And trust me, there are places in the middle east like that. Iran has laws banning the printing of any Christian propoganda, and converting from Islam to Christianity is punishable by death.

So before you guys get all butthurt about what Switzerland is doing, maybe you should take a look at what the laws are in the Muslim controlled countries. I didn't see anybody comment on that.

People forget that the dogma that brought the Moors into Spain still exists.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by ryguy

So before you guys get all butthurt about what Switzerland is doing, maybe you should take a look at what the laws are in the Muslim controlled countries. I didn't see anybody comment on that.

just like an internet forum fued, someone needs to take the first step towards working things out.


Plus, christianity has always done really good when martred and supressed.!! lmao!!

[kingkilburn]

In real life both parties have to be willing to make peace. Let me know when Iran lets us build a cathedral in their capitol.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Touge Noob S13

Latinos in Europe? What are they Spanish and Italian?

The originals Latinos, realize where Latin the language came from!. LOL

[kingkilburn]

There are no original "Latinos". That word was made up to describe people with Spanish surnames not from Spain. The same goes for Hispanic(named after the Hispaniola).

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

In real life both parties have to be willing to make peace. Let me know when Iran lets us build a cathedral in their capitol.

Iran is not Islam anymore than United States is christianity.

Nobody in here has said "I want a mosque next to my house." in this thread, thats not the issue,

If you want to discuss oppression of christianity in extremist islamic states then that could be its own thread, but thats the extreme side of islam. Us christians have had their extremist movements throughout history as well.

This thread is about Switzerland's law, and the hypothetical application of that law in the United States.

If you want peace I believe you have to go higher than both parties wanting peace. Somebody is going to have to break the cycle of violence, and it won't be easy.

Stop bringing up building a giant cathedral or huge mosque in somebody's capital city. That obviously isn't the main target of a law like this. Sending a clear message that [Jews, blacks, women, communists, muslims, gays, YOU, ME] aren't allowed political power is disappointing coming from a country that is the birthplace of international humanitarian rights.

If you think any law like this deserves a place in the constitution I think you need to do some serious research into our history and what this country is founded on.