Drift entrance techniques/form

[JDMStanced]

i recently went drifting in my 05 350z with stance coilover. Damper was set 8F/ 10R, i think.
When i was drifting, i didn't notice it squating much but a guy who saw me drifting said it was squating enough to ALMOST scrape the bottom of the rear bumper on the ground.
my car is low but i think there's a little more room than a normal height of a shoe.
my rear camber is around -1.7. Should i set it more positive>?

[Jeff Jones]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

i recently went drifting in my 05 350z with stance coilover. Damper was set 8F/ 10R, i think.
When i was drifting, i didn't notice it squating much but a guy who saw me drifting said it was squating enough to ALMOST scrape the bottom of the rear bumper on the ground.
my car is low but i think there's a little more room than a normal height of a shoe.
my rear camber is around -1.7. Should i set it more positive>?

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

thanks for your response.
I get what you are saying, but is there a reason why you recommend "-.5" max? Chris' probably has stiffer spring rates than my stance gr+ true type. So my car will squat more than his, resulting more negative camber. Is that mean i should have more positive camber than Chris?

How do you know so in detail about Chris' car by the way? i've always looked upon his car.

[Csomme]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Makes sense. I've seen other teams and what not keep the same alignment and just space one wheel out more than the other.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by iamtheyi

Oh and another idea for the other noobs out there, changing the damping on your coils will have some pretty major impact on the car feel. For stock KA, you want to turn the damping to "hard" and the fronts to "soft". Car gets a lot easier to drift.

I believe for SR's and higher hp/tq cars, you soften the rears and stiffen the fronts. Don't know. I don't have a high hp/tq car lol. Anybody want to confirm or flame me?

in higher horsepower cars...the goal is to have grip to push forward. stiffer in the front makes the car understeer more....which means more full throttle angle drifting.

Originally Posted by ericcastro

Pictures lie. two distorted dutch angle photos and one showing the side with no weight that is lifted.





I thought the Z squated so hard that they DID run posi camber, or close to it.



NO ONES DRIFT SETTINGS ON HERE SHOULD SHADOW ANY PRO CAR.
you fucking guys are retarded arguing this shit.
you have half their HP or less, and aren't on throttle and squated like they are, so who gives a flying fuck.

Your car should mirror your tracks, speeds and HP.

So move on to something more interesting please

castro...we've discussed the basics to death. That's why we want to know the pro's setup. I hope no one is actually trying to use these pro setups on their car...they would have a problem drifting with them cause of too much grip.

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

i'm a beginner but i felt that i can't speed up after deep angle drift transition.
The wear is pretty bad. The inner side wears quite more than the outer. I need more positive camber but i don't know how much, and i want it to be useful for autox also.
I went to a couple of autox events and one drift event after alignment was done like 2~3 months. So it probably changed some. The toe was set to 0.

you felt that it couldn't speed up cause you have too much camber. when you look at your worn tire. the worn part is the part that touches the ground. You want all of your tires to be worn evenly. shows full contact.

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Jeff....I've seen you drive since you pretty much started. Please don't take this personal, but the only time I've ever seen you drive legitimately would be long beach last year...and even then...it was one run. I don't know if it's your driving, your cars tuning, or you being new to the tracks, but I wouldn't take anything you say...and apply that to a car. I don't want to sit here and bash all the shitty driving I've seen from you, but at the same time....you are a pro driver, and if you aren't doing well in the season, I would blame the car. Cause if your specs ARE right.....then you are just a shitty driver.

Hell...i would blame the shitty tires you have to deal with, and the jz that you have weighing down the front end of your chassis not giving you any grip...but unfortunately.....that's what tuning is for....to compensate for that weight difference. I don't know.....I guess I shouldn't even be talking since I'm not "pro". But that's what I see.

[ericcastro]

Originally Posted by Jeff Jones

NO, you should set it to Zero or -0.5 max. This will let the wheel gain negative camber in a turn or drift allowing for contact patch (more grip). If it was set to positive 0.5 then it would go to zero under load,and sense your car will be in a lean it will be like positive still. Got it?


The reason Chris and a few other big shot in formula D run positive is because we run big bang tracks were there is a long drift in one direction with a quick switch and then back to the same Direction. So Irwindale for example. Right rear -0.0 to -0.5 camber 30psi, Left rear +0.5 to +1.0 camber 25psi. They even go as far as towing the car to the track. right rear 1/4 toe out, left rear 1/4 toe in.

These are examples and my opinion, have fun.

Good info and real insight.
Thanks Jeff for chiming in.

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

How do you know so in detail about Chris' car by the way? i've always looked upon his car.

Because he is one of the top 32 guys that has to compete with Chris monthly

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

I hope no one is actually trying to use these pro setups on their car...they would have a problem drifting with them cause of too much grip.

Isnt that kid above asking about Forsbergs car in comparison to his setup?

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

..I guess I shouldn't even be talking since I'm not "pro".

....Even when they arent doing the best, they are driving at a much higher level and speed then the rest of us. my 2 cents.

[Csomme]

If you're able to, I would say yes. Do you want more rear end grip? Or are you okay with what you have now?

What's your tire wear like? What are you're toe settings in the rear?

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by Csomme

If you're able to, I would say yes. Do you want more rear end grip? Or are you okay with what you have now?

What's your tire wear like? What are you're toe settings in the rear?

i'm a beginner but i felt that i can't speed up after deep angle drift transition.
The wear is pretty bad. The inner side wears quite more than the outer. I need more positive camber but i don't know how much, and i want it to be useful for autox also.
I went to a couple of autox events and one drift event after alignment was done like 2~3 months. So it probably changed some. The toe was set to 0.

[!Zar!]

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

i really don't know anything for sure as i'm a medium noob lol
I've always thought that drifting requires stiff springs. And i saw some drifting cars (stripped interior and roll cage)rolling on the freeway before. Even if the road was bumpy, their wheel gaps were staying constant...Oh maybe cause their cars were so low and had no suspension travel which looked like they had stiff sus ! But then, i don't know how low you have to go on those cars to bottom out.

Matej: i feel that huge Clariton decals don't look really nice lol

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

I'm pretty sure most of all the guys running a zillion torque have softer springs, not hella stiff ones.

This brings up the car set up for those supercars (ferrari, r8, lambo and stuff like that) trackings.
Those made for track only cars have almost zero wheel gaps. Tire sidewalls are almost vertical, right below the fender edge. This has to mean that their spring set up is stiff, if not, the tires will kill the fenders at every corner.
How do you explain this?

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

This brings up the car set up for those supercars (ferrari, r8, lambo and stuff like that) trackings.
Those made for track only cars have almost zero wheel gaps. Tire sidewalls are almost vertical, right below the fender edge. This has to mean that their spring set up is stiff, if not, the tires will kill the fenders at every corner.
How do you explain this?

coilovers. They just look like they are super stiff. Hell if you ever saw my s14 on the freeway, you would see almost no movement in my suspension. But On a track, I would get about 2 inches of compression.

I have a buddy running 5k springs on his KW's in the rear...coils just makes cars look like they ride really shitty.

Also, wheel cambers under compression...aka tucks in the fender. The lower the car...the easier the wheel will tuck under the fender because of the suspension geometry.

[JDMStanced]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

coilovers. They just look like they are super stiff. Hell if you ever saw my s14 on the freeway, you would see almost no movement in my suspension. But On a track, I would get about 2 inches of compression.

I have a buddy running 5k springs on his KW's in the rear...coils just makes cars look like they ride really shitty.

Also, wheel cambers under compression...aka tucks in the fender. The lower the car...the easier the wheel will tuck under the fender because of the suspension geometry.

thanks for the reply. Those racing supercars must have mad negative cambers. i only paid attention to their wheel gap, not the camber.
Today i got the alignment done at OC infiniti, Rick is now working there. My alignment WAY off. Toe were freaking everywhere lol. There's a reason why my car was everywhere, sliping rear tires at low speed turning, and handling shitty. I set the alignment to Front: -2.5 camber, and 0.01 toe.
Rear: -1.3 camber, and 0 toe. My rear is lifted so much now comparing when i had -1.7 camber.
The car handles so much better now.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by JDMStanced

thanks for the reply. Those racing supercars must have mad negative cambers. i only paid attention to their wheel gap, not the camber.
Today i got the alignment done at OC infiniti, Rick is now working there. My alignment WAY off. Toe were freaking everywhere lol. There's a reason why my car was everywhere, sliping rear tires at low speed turning, and handling shitty. I set the alignment to Front: -2.5 camber, and 0.01 toe.
Rear: -1.3 camber, and 0 toe. My rear is lifted so much now comparing when i had -1.7 camber.
The car handles so much better now.

that's awesome. It's amazing what a good alignment will to to driving the car. Did you check your caster?

[Matej]

Yuck. One could not pay me to sit through a Formula D event.

Watch the Drift Bible three times a day. Buy the most expensive suspension pieces available. Rump it at the nearest cul-de-sac.

[word sux]

I agree my coils look super harsh during normal driving but they are very smooth and when I am on the track I get ALOT more suspension travel (but then again the road course at E-town has alot of elevation change).

get really good suspension parts especially coils then run a pretty conservative alignment

I run -3 camber in the front -1 in the rear. 0 toe in front and 1/16 to in, in the rear. and 7.3+ caster in the front

besides front camber my car is all within factory specs

[iamtheyi]

Caster is how far your front wheels are pulled forward. These are adjusted by the tension rods. More caster = faster the steering wheel turns back

[JDMStanced]

looks like my caster is high but the steering turns back so slowly daily driving.

Back to super racing cars, how do they have zero wheel gap and still be able to turn hard, lots of compression? Wouldnt the tires rub the fenders?

[slickdrifter]

haul ass and throw the sh!+ out of it.

[ComicArtist]

Slid my first event last weekend.

The haul ass and throw your weight around method worked ok, but due to my 90hp it was kinda hard to get up to ass-hauling speed.

So I hauled as much ass as I could, feinted a little and clutchkicked like a mutha.

After I got used to that, I started using the handbrake mid-drift to help control the slide.

Spun out a bunch until I started countersteering quicker, but couldn't get a whole lot of angle.

I think I'm gonna get knuckles, tie rods, and bumpsteer spacers.

More power would help.

[!Zar!]

I still want to know why Forsberg's camber is so important?

Most of us are running s chassis, and the suspension geometry in back is different.

As I've said a bunch of times before, spring rate has a lot to do with how much the car squats. From my understanding guys are running softer springs in back. The softer the spring, the longer the travel, the more drastic the angle differences.

[Csomme]

Yeah, I guess it was just me arguing that he wasn't then a bunch of people saying he was and us wanting to get to the bottom of it.

As you increase in hp in drifting, you're going to need more traction, and obviously softer springs and a must, and with that a change in the valving. For instance, KW Clubsports, soft springs, wayyyyyy different valving. Great for higher HP drift cars. Squat a tonnn.

David, why don't you just shoot Mike Kojima and see what his take is on the whole positive camber thing. If you haven't ever talked to him, he's really freaking cool.

[matts13vert]

Ok guys i need some of your input. I went to a couple of local events here and i was having mad understeer when clutch kicking. I let one of the instructors drive and he could not get the car to slide out by clucth kicking either. Could too much stretch cause the understeer? I have 215/35 on a 18x10.

Would adding a rear sway bar help this issue? I need the 215/35 for clearance issues up front due to vert stock fender brace.. if worse comes to worse i will cut it out and weld in another.

[iamtheyi]

Originally Posted by matts13vert

Ok guys i need some of your input. I went to a couple of local events here and i was having mad understeer when clutch kicking. I let one of the instructors drive and he could not get the car to slide out by clucth kicking either. Could too much stretch cause the understeer? I have 215/35 on a 18x10.

Would adding a rear sway bar help this issue? I need the 215/35 for clearance issues up front due to vert stock fender brace.. if worse comes to worse i will cut it out and weld in another.

Should post up your setup. stiffen the rear damping for the coils to almost max if you have them. And soften the fronts. That's some basic free fix. Rear sway would help. Your car didn't come with one stock?

[matts13vert]

PBM pro coils
Upgraded multilink
basic ka-t
6 puck clutch
welded diff
dampening full stiff in the rear, half way from stiff up front.

alignment -3.5 camber front -2 rear, 7 degrees caster, 0 toe

215/35 595ss all around on 18x10

I have the stock clothes hanger sway bar on right now but i meant swap it out for a larger one?

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by matts13vert

PBM pro coils
Upgraded multilink
basic ka-t
6 puck clutch
welded diff
dampening full stiff in the rear, half way from stiff up front.

alignment -3.5 camber front -2 rear, 7 degrees caster, 0 toe

215/35 595ss all around on 18x10

I have the stock clothes hanger sway bar on right now but i meant swap it out for a larger one?

whoa whoa whoa.....what organization couldn't drift this car?!

this should be the easiest car to slide out.....

you need to drive the car harder. and ditch that instructor....not trying to be a dick...but I ran 18x10's on 225 40' on a stock KA. heavy ass gramlight multi piece wheels too.

only thing I could possibly think of is your front tires are old....but then again. I ran nankang's on the fronts...and they did just fine. but again...I drive hard.


csomme....is mike the guy that built the car? i'll hit him up. ask some q's.

edit: damn...federals all around. should be cake.

I ran 18x9 215 35 front and 18x10 225 40 rears...my wheels are probably heavier than your 521's if that's what you are driving on.(or around the same weight 24lbs)

too much strech will only stiffen the tire...won't make it impossible to drive...just a little harder. again...I ran damn near the same setup on my s14 (which s14's grip even more)

[matts13vert]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

whoa whoa whoa.....what organization couldn't drift this car?!

this should be the easiest car to slide out.....

you need to drive the car harder. and ditch that instructor....not trying to be a dick...but I ran 18x10's on 225 40' on a stock KA. heavy ass gramlight multi piece wheels too.

only thing I could possibly think of is your front tires are old....but then again. I ran nankang's on the fronts...and they did just fine. but again...I drive hard.


csomme....is mike the guy that built the car? i'll hit him up. ask some q's.

edit: damn...federals all around. should be cake.

I ran 18x9 215 35 front and 18x10 225 40 rears...my wheels are probably heavier than your 521's if that's what you are driving on.(or around the same weight 24lbs)

too much strech will only stiffen the tire...won't make it impossible to drive...just a little harder. again...I ran damn near the same setup on my s14 (which s14's grip even more)

It was Charlie from JD, and tires were brand new when i hit the track. Ill be pushing it harder next time.
I might end up switching tires size up front to 225/35 to kind of ease the stretch.

[fckillerbee]

Originally Posted by matts13vert

It was Charlie from JD, and tires were brand new when i hit the track. Ill be pushing it harder next time.
I might end up switching tires size up front to 225/35 to kind of ease the stretch.

that's the problem right there...hahaha. charlie can't drive for shits! haha.

you can tell him I said so! haha.

Only person at JD that I would let test a car is Henry. charlie...hahahaha. thanks for this laugh..i'm gonna go make fun of him now. haha. (i'm really laughing hard right now....this is an ongoing joke we've had for like 5 years about how charlie shouldn't drive peoples cars)

edit: FACEBOOK BLASTED! lol

[matts13vert]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

that's the problem right there...hahaha. charlie can't drive for shits! haha.

you can tell him I said so! haha.

Only person at JD that I would let test a car is Henry. charlie...hahahaha. thanks for this laugh..i'm gonna go make fun of him now. haha. (i'm really laughing hard right now....this is an ongoing joke we've had for like 5 years about how charlie shouldn't drive peoples cars)

edit: FACEBOOK BLASTED! lol

Lmao he can drive better than me which i guess doesnt help.

[anton1o]

Originally Posted by matts13vert

PBM pro coils
Upgraded multilink
basic ka-t
6 puck clutch
welded diff
dampening full stiff in the rear, half way from stiff up front.

alignment -3.5 camber front -2 rear, 7 degrees caster, 0 toe

215/35 595ss all around on 18x10

I have the stock clothes hanger sway bar on right now but i meant swap it out for a larger one?

Hey buddy,

If it was my car i would change the rim setup 1st, i can see by the look of the 18x10 on 215/35 with -2 camber that your probarbly going for the "cool" drift look? Also a welded diff isnt so easy, if the front isnt gripping up correctly its going to be "pushing" the car forward and not always in the best directions.. Nothing against them but you maybe just need to change a few things.

Why dont you borrow a mates basic rims maybe something like 18x9+20 for the rear try straighten up the camber to like -1 or -0.5, the 215 would be ok but if you can knock it up a bit and bring tyre pressure to about 34/36PSI.

For the fronts i would also ditch the 18x10, Sure they are awesome.. But with drift its good to learn the basics, enjoy the car, Level up with your skill.. Id go with a 18x9 and run the same 215 tyre so its not having to stretch beyond belief or even a 225, Camber is good, Caster is good, What about Toe? Aslong as that is factory levels you should be fine there also.

Thats my recommendations, sure your car wont be 'Hellaflush' but its drift, and from what youve said it seems like your still learning