So, who has the power?

[HalveBlue]

No offense, but your reading comprehension sucks.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

ah excuse me there was a quota system, it was in fact instigated in 1924 and was responsible for sending Italians back to Italy. It instigated a situation of where there were only 4,000 per year allowed.

"Basically, prior to the 1920's, with the exception of a small group of people ( criminals, the sick, the Chinese) anyone could immigrate to the United States."

The majority of Italians immigrated between 1880 and 1920, and thus were not subject to quotas.

Oh and yes during the 1880's Italians did emigrate in large numbers and some did go back and some did send money back. Though in the end a majority came and stayed. during WW1 there was very little immigration and after it the quota system was put into place.

Though in the 1880's the population of the U.S. and labor situation was quite different than it is today. For you to draw parallels between then and today shows you need to study more of your American History.

Yeah, obviously America and the world are different today than they were over a hundred years ago. Couldn't agree more with you there.

Nevertheless, there are parallels between what's happening with immigrants from Latin America today and what was happening with Italian immigrants then.

They also taught their children English not Italian as English was the language of their adopted country. They also loved their adopted country and stood behind it in WWII.

Again, I'm not denying that. But, I find it interesting, in juxtaposition to your earlier denial of parallels between these two waves of immigration, that applies to the children of most (il)legal immigrants today. I served with plenty of illegal immigrants, or children of illegal immigrants when I was in the Army.

Also, the number of second generation immigrants that don't speak English is minuscule. This is a result of the integration and public education system.

Indeed we did have our own neighborhoods due to discrimination and such but we did assimilate into American Society. In fact many areas that were formally Italian are not today because of that assimilation.
I do not speak Italian because it was not the language of the country I was born in. Does it take away from my heritage or celebrating it? No. Though I am American first of Italian heritage second.

I don't see how any of that does not apply to today's immigrants and their children.

That pretty much throws a blanket on your claim I would not have been here. You have no idea of my own family history or when my Grandparents migrated.

I

Actually, no, it doesn't.

Again, learn to read better:

"If I remember correctly, your ancestors hailed from Italy. While it may not apply to specifically to your family's immigration history, most Italians that immigrated to the United States did so before there was any sort of quota system in place."

For you to claim that if today's current practically open door policy with hispanic immigrants is worse than in the turn of the century 1900's is shear ignorance of facts on your part.

What?

I never claimed that. Any of that.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Brian

Gnnr - So do you think it's perfectly fine for illegal immigrants to be living here and taking advantage of our country? If so, end of discussion.

I don't agree with this country's double standard. Its perfectly fine for us to screw their country and not expect to have this illegal immigration problem. Its perfectly fine for us to force ourselves into existence on the Native Americans that lived here and then again by taking up what belonged to the Mexicans that lived here and we expect not to have the problems we are having. Look into the US/Mexican history, this "recent" problem is not so recent.

Lets not act like America is the victim here.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

I don't agree with this country's double standard. Its perfectly fine for us to screw their country and not expect to have this illegal immigration problem. Its perfectly fine for us to force ourselves into existence on the Native Americans that lived here and then again by taking up what belonged to the Mexicans that lived here and we expect not to have the problems we are having. Look into the US/Mexican history, this "recent" problem is not so recent.

Lets not act like America is the victim here.

Oh cool cool. Not even an answer to the question AT ALL.

Good work out there.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Brian

Oh cool cool. Not even an answer to the question AT ALL.

Good work out there.

The answer is NO.

But it does not mean that the ends justify the means. When a better solution is proposed I will vote for it.

And to be sure, in what ways do you feel America is being taken advantage of? How is it different from America's past where it took advantage of Mexico?

[Brian]

Hello this is America. Would you like to become a citizen?
Yes / No
*please circle one.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hello this is America. Would you like to become a citizen?
Yes / No
*please circle one.

Hello I am America. I will be taking half your house, and what remains of your house I will pillage and plunder of its resources. Oh? You want to come back to this half of what was your house? Sorry, that's gonna cost you. America. Fuck Yeah.

[ronmcdon]

If you're so absorbed in ethics (which I am not), two wrongs don't make a right.

I applaud Brian for ignoring the irrelevant & staying on topic.

[I LUV MY S13]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hello this is America. Would you like to become a citizen?
Yes / No
*please circle one.

cuz its that easy right..?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by I LUV MY S13

cuz its that easy right..?

No, it's not that easy, but it's a start.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

If you're so absorbed in ethics (which I am not), two wrongs don't make a right.

I applaud Brian for ignoring the irrelevant & staying on topic.

Yeah, I'm trying.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by Brian

And where is the problem? I don't get pissed when the police officer asks for my Drivers License.


Here it is sir. Thank you.

Driving isn't a right.

I don't care much about the illegals that get caught and sent back as a consequence of this law. But its not right that people here legally have to live here under the suspicion of being criminals all the time.

[revat619]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

But its not right that people here legally have to live here under the suspicion of being criminals all the time.

Welcome to Black America since forever.

But yes, you do have a point.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

No offense, but your reading comprehension sucks.



"Basically, prior to the 1920's, with the exception of a small group of people ( criminals, the sick, the Chinese) anyone could immigrate to the United States."

The majority of Italians immigrated between 1880 and 1920, and thus were not subject to quotas.



Yeah, obviously America and the world are different today than they were over a hundred years ago. Couldn't agree more with you there.

Nevertheless, there are parallels between what's happening with immigrants from Latin America today and what was happening with Italian immigrants then.



Again, I'm not denying that. But, I find it interesting, in juxtaposition to your earlier denial of parallels between these two waves of immigration, that applies to the children of most (il)legal immigrants today. I served with plenty of illegal immigrants, or children of illegal immigrants when I was in the Army.

Also, the number of second generation immigrants that don't speak English is minuscule. This is a result of the integration and public education system.



I don't see how any of that does not apply to today's immigrants and their children.




Actually, no, it doesn't.

Again, learn to read better:

"If I remember correctly, your ancestors hailed from Italy. While it may not apply to specifically to your family's immigration history, most Italians that immigrated to the United States did so before there was any sort of quota system in place."




What?

I never claimed that. Any of that.

I brushed over your original statement after first reading it and formulating my response. Why because it bothered me. It bothered me because you had stated supposed facts that were not exactly correct.

So I made mistake brushing over one of your statements in the heat of the moment.

Oh and stating "no offense" but then telling me my reading comprehension sucks. That was offensive couched by your own statement of no offense. If you did intend to offend you would not have made the statement to begin with.

Maybe you should get to know me as a person before making a statement like that as I am quite adept at reading comprehension. LOL

As far as your claim to parallels,

they are not quite the same like I stated. I think you are trying to find reasons to justify a position opposite of mine.

Fact is we are talking about illegal immigration not legal immigration.

I stated what I did as an example of the attitude of the Italian immigrants based off your own statements.

I do not recall making earlier denials of parallels. In fact I never made a statement about until you brought it up. Stop trying to say I did.

I made statements about Italians immigrating here legally and nothing more. That is truth. Though there were no quota's for a certain period, you still could not enter the country illegally.
That has not changed. While there may have been some illegals in fact the numbers were not nearly the number we are talking of today.

You came out and tried to draw the parallels. Not I.

You seem to be trying to direct something at me as to call me a hypocrite or to say I am ignoring past. Past is past. Today things are not the same.


If you think they are I say you have possibly not studied up on the U.S. in those times. Things were vastly different.

As for DTC trying to claim I was going off topic to begin with?

All of this pertains to who has the power because the illegals do go out and protest and protest draws attention. Thereby influencing politics which can influence power.

If you think they are I say you have possibly not studied up on the U.S. in those times. Things were vastly different.

As for DTC trying to claim I was going off topic to begin with?

All of this pertains to who has the power because the illegals do go out and protest and protest draws attention. Thereby influencing politics which can influence power.




Mexico's policies affect that power indirectly as well.

So basically my original statement did have bearing on the OP.

I really have nothing more to say on this part of the subject because you will hold your opinion and I will hold mine.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

Driving isn't a right.

I don't care much about the illegals that get caught and sent back as a consequence of this law. But its not right that people here legally have to live here under the suspicion of being criminals all the time.

Nor is living in the USA a right.



Of course it isn't right that legal citizens have to live under suspicion of being criminals all the time. I don't think anybody would disagree with you. Criminals can be any color, by the way. So, are you thinking that all Mexican people will be under suspicion of being here illegally and will be treated differently?

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Brian

Nor is living in the USA a right.



Of course it isn't right that legal citizens have to live under suspicion of being criminals all the time. I don't think anybody would disagree with you. Criminals can be any color, by the way. So, are you thinking that all Mexican people will be under suspicion of being here illegally and will be treated differently?

Actually Brian, it is a right for Citizens who obey the law.

I do not think all people of Mexican heritage would be under suspicion.

Unfortunately there are bad Apples in all organizations who might fall on profiling.

The matter is not easy to define.As to who has the power the vast amounts of possible illegals? Or the Government installing laws to control it? It remains to be seen.

Honestly Brian did you not start this topic knowing full well, it would probably cause a shit storm? LOL

[Brian]

Dave, in your first sentence, what are you referring to?


And yes, I knew it would cause a shit storm. It's a shit storm topic in the real world, it's going to be a REAL shit storm on Zilvia.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Hello I am America. I will be taking half your house, and what remains of your house I will pillage and plunder of its resources. Oh? You want to come back to this half of what was your house? Sorry, that's gonna cost you. America. Fuck Yeah.

Examples please.

[J3123MY]

LOL. Is this guy really serious? Is this shit photo shopped?

I like your stands Gnnr.

[ncbox]

^ That guy holding the sign best be trollin'.

[I LUV MY S13]

people like that need to get thrown back in mexico....

[SUPERSTAR]

New Machete Red Band Trailer for Cinco de Mayo - MovieWeb

Here ya go.

[Walperstyle]

I'm all for helping out people in Distress, but up here in Canada its the same thing. Nobody should be here if they don't pay taxes. If more people paid taxes, there would be better schools and services for the public.

I know a woman from Uganda whom came to Canada. After getting her paperwork and fighting for her family to come over, she now wants to do military service to 'pay Canada back for helping her get out of Uganda'.

We need more people like that.


I think what some people here are trying to say is it would be nice to see people 'earn' their way in society rather then 'expecting' it. America Ows its war vets first. Starting with those old guys from Nam that can't afford medical. Just watch the de-pussification video in this forum.

[SHINCHU]

Originally Posted by Brian

I think it's really easy to throw out a YES or NO answer... but when you really think about it, it may become more difficult.

yeah pretty much where i am right now.
generations ago my family did it the right way. now loads of people (not just mexicans) are coming here the wrong way. maybe because their lives depended on it (refugees? famine? etc.). would i rather see people dead than here illegally? no that's not right. but damn they have to understand they cant keep getting a free lunch here. how do we enforce that? hell if i know.

this country really is getting itself in a jam. nobody said being awesome was easy?

[shiftdrift]

Originally Posted by DTC SUPERSTAR

New Machete Red Band Trailer for Cinco de Mayo - MovieWeb

Here ya go.

damn, that's quite a line up, looks to be entertaining in the dumbest way.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by Brian

Criminals can be any color, by the way. So, are you thinking that all Mexican people will be under suspicion of being here illegally and will be treated differently?

What are the standards for whether or not its ok to ask people to prove that they are here legally?

[Brian]

Are you asking me for a fact or are you asking me my opinion on it?

I would have ZERO problems being asked if I was here legally. Give me a paper, card, whatever to prove it. I'll carry it at all times.

Again, I'll compare it to the Driver's License. I'm pretty sure I am required to keep that little card on me when I drive my car. Does it make me sad? mad? Nope. Why the F would it? If I get pulled over, I give them my license to drive. Is that too difficult?

People get profiled. I've got profiled by the car I drive. Guess what? Deal with it.

[Karlitos]

Being part of an immigrant family, most of my family works in some sort of physical labor type job, and I will be the first in my family to go to a four year university. I can say this law has a good objective to fix the immigration problem- cause lets face it, its a problem- but it's not the right way to fix it. Racial profiling is not a solution and thats what this law is. Being from San Diego I've seen and been in the Home Depot in the mornings and some are illegals others aren't. The police doesn't do anything 'cause in CA they can't, but I've always wondered why the BP doesn't go to Home Depot's. That has some sort of probable cause for the fed but they don't do crap. It's not right for people to get pulled over because they're mexican, black or any other race, and it's been in the news that the police have a 'plan' to know whose mexican. I don't remember exactly but it went something like this "They wear sandals (chanclas), don't talk english, wear straw hats to protect from the sun in labor jobs and look dirty" Please don't tell me thats not racial profiling. Yes its the same for black people and do they like it, no. Its the same for middle eastern's and do they like it? No. Why should we? We just stand up for whats right, not saying african americans haven't done anything 'cause they have, but its just in a bigger scale now and blacks aren't as profiled nowadays as they were before.

There have been many misconceptions posted, i agree people here illegally should not, but there's people to do that job and the state police isn't them. People should stop coming here illegally but they come here for a reason. Most come to live a better life and do make money for their families back home(any country) There's just a few bad people that make a wrong decision and make headlines everywhere when the media finds out they are illegals. Most of the massacres in the US have been by citizens, most crimes nowadays are by citizens of a different nationality, but they are american, legally.

And the case of jobs, mexicans do create a large part of the economy, legal or not. How many white people are gonna burn themselves out in the sun by picking fruits or working in construction? Not even legal mexicans will because they're legalilty already puts them at a better position for a better job.

Lets compare the situation to cars and licenses like many of you have. This law is like saying just because you have a 240 you have an SR20. But what if you dont? You're trying to get to work and a cop pulls you over to pop your hood. They check that you dont have an SR, now your late to work and loose your job. All because the probable cause was owning a 240. Being mexican shouldn't be a "probable cause" and thats what this law is doing. I haven't read the law but I've done my research trying to stay away from yellow journalism .

Originally Posted by oscarmagana

well i think its a good thing that should be passed here in cali idk maybe its because of my personal background.. its not fair for those who wait patiently in their country until they receive there documents to come to the country legally. im all for it

Yea its not. but the US is not giving out any visas as of now.

Originally Posted by shiftdrift

i think it's fair for sure. people shouldn't get into our country illegally. if you are here legally, then it shouldn't be a big deal to you to show proof to someone. anyways, illegal immigrants take our jobs, and just really don't help out our country at all.

like i said before, now its not a big deal until it causes you to continually miss out because of time wasted by being mexican.

Originally Posted by Flicktitty

my buddy posted this on FB. thought it's pretty appropriate.

JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS... YOU PASS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YRS HARD LABOR, YOU PASS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET SHOT. YOU PASS THE AMERICAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET A JOB, DRIVER'S LICENSE, ALLOWANCE FOR A PLACE TO LIVE, HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT SO YOU CAN READ.........A DOCUMENT. WE CARRY PASSPORTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES OR FACE JAILTIME.



i think it is COMPLETE BULLSHIT. people are fighting against this. i think it should be like that in EVERY state.

This is a modern country where everyone try's to act civilized. Those other countries aren't to well of are they?? Nor are they first world countries with a well organized government. That only applies to when you get caught.
And what happens if you don't get caught cause the people living theyre life here illegaly and they cant get that. Yes you get up to a HS education and pay for the rest 'cause you dont qualify for fafsa. As far i know you cant get a license if your illegal. And its not billions into going to read but it is money going to schools that would be getting money anyways.

Originally Posted by nismo619

im all for it!

look at home depot at 7am in the morning. there are a grip of illegals waiting for work and the cops cant do anything about it cuz they cant prove that they are illegal. im not racist or anything my best friend is mexican but im tired of all the illegals taking work from american citizens, and talking shit on american, and how much better mexico is. if its so much better GET THE FUCK OUT ! sorry i got going but yeah i think cali should do it too but we have our head stuck so far up our ass i dont hink we will

like stated earlier how do you know they're all illegal? Im guessing your best friend doesn't speak spanish or has no idea whats going on in mexico, and i dont mean just the murders and stuff but whats going on politically and more in depth. None of the mexicans i know say mexico is better and if they do they dont mean its better to be living there just they like the more freedom there is towards certain things.

Originally Posted by Brian

It's early, but I'd have to imagine people's location will play a big part in their answer.



anyways, something I keep thinking about in relation to this topic is driving. All of us have to have a driver's license to drive, right? When we get pulled over, do you think twice about showing the officer your license to drive?

So, what if officers asked you for a license to be here? Same thing? Different?

What if you got pulled over JUST to check if you had a license. If you weren't doing anything wrong and don't have a license then your screwed if you did have a license you would feel harassed and as if that was just a waste of time of the police.

Originally Posted by roboticnissan

I think its kinda crazy. But I really doubt cops are going to walk around the city and just ask random ppl if they are legal or not. It will most likly be if you get in trouble and have no license then you need to have a green card or whatever. But id say pass the bill. You can really tell at least where I live whether or not theses ppl are legal or not.

they might or they might not, but this law gives them the power to do so. can you really tell whose legal? how??

Originally Posted by yokotas13

im down
illegals are a liability.
if they want to be here, they should do it legally like the others that have
and learn goddamn american too!

they are but this law isnt a solution. Now taxes will have to be spent in lawyers for court, because they are tried in a short session since they are proven guilty and can ask for a lawyer which dont. Taxes will go to maintaing them in jail since they stay there for a couple of days till deported for which tax payers pay for they're gas. At least before they payed for their own gas. And if a legal gets arrested and sues that will be a BIG cause and MUCH more money being spent.

I'll contribute more later on.

[240XTC]

My friends and I had a discussion about this a couple days ago... It then re-routed into the topic of the Alien parents whos children are born in the states......

To the subject at hand. Its a simple case of abuse on a good thing. Now regulations will be put into effect. All in hopes to scrounge up every penny. In this case, couple billions of tax payer dollar that are used to educate, medicate, and incarcerate these illegal individuals.

The power is in the common sense end result of saving the state money.

[I LUV MY S13]

Originally Posted by DTC SUPERSTAR

New Machete Red Band Trailer for Cinco de Mayo - MovieWeb

Here ya go.

horrible trailer, good list of actors though

Originally Posted by SHINCHU

yeah pretty much where i am right now.
generations ago my family did it the right way. now loads of people (not just mexicans) are coming here the wrong way. maybe because their lives depended on it (refugees? famine? etc.). would i rather see people dead than here illegally? no that's not right. but damn they have to understand they cant keep getting a free lunch here. how do we enforce that? hell if i know.

this country really is getting itself in a jam. nobody said being awesome was easy?

i think legalization needs to be a bit easier...or atleast a faster process

[Matej]

The whole immigration process in the US is pretty silly.

Educated people from first and second world countries do not move here anymore because they have better opportunities in their home countries. Even if they wanted to move here, they would have to jump through so many bureaucratic hoops that is is nowhere near worth it to them. And coming here illegally is definitely not worth it to them at all, that is not even an option. So they stay living happily in their home countries. America is not luring in engineers, scientists, and other great minds from all over the world as it once used to.

Yet 'refugees' seem to be welcomed with open arms. Pretty much all it takes to be let into the US is to be from some country that Americans assume evil/poor/crappy, and to make up some story about how your native government is tyrannical or whatever, and make sure to make it sound a lot worse than it really is. Middle Easterners are pouring in. Indians are coming. And America loves to turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants. Thanks to sophisticated networks and connections, most illegal immigrants have it easier here than legal immigrants, easier even than many regular citizens. Plus the government itself seems to be lending a helping hand.

And the entire US citizenship process is a joke. Especially compared to other countries. I do not even want to get into that.