New Garrett GTX2867r

[the555car]

Are you going to extrude hone the turbine housing? Or see how it compares, then do it?

cheers
-Evan

[LuckyX2]

Finally, someone is gonna come through with a dyno!
Glad it was codyace too, so we'll have some reliable comparisons to his go-to 2871 setup.
I wish I was back home in Bethlehem so I could bring my 240 by and see the dyno first hand...

Thanks codyace

[codyace]

Originally Posted by the555car

Are you going to extrude hone the turbine housing? Or see how it compares, then do it?

cheers
-Evan

I'll be reusing my same Extrude Honed turbine housing as it already has the wastegate flapper welded shut. Same housing as my 2871

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Finally, someone is gonna come through with a dyno!
Glad it was codyace too, so we'll have some reliable comparisons to his go-to 2871 setup.
I wish I was back home in Bethlehem so I could bring my 240 by and see the dyno first hand...

Thanks codyace

Yea I'm hoping all goes as well with this all. It's just going to be a timing thing as I've got a ton of other things going on.

IMO I'm stoked for this, as it's a make it or break it kinda test. Same dyno, similar conditions, car is essentially the same too (only thing I changed were the coilpacks, the rest is exactly the same).

[the555car]

Right! Completely forgot about the housing interchangeability and that the GTX doesn't come with one. Looking forward to your results.

[Seraphim38]

hffandpuff...FYI I couldn't get that housing to clear my strut tower and had to run a 90 degree elbow like this (offered by ATP for $69, and you have to buy an additional v-band clamp for $45):



link: MVR 44mm Wastegate 90 Deg Elbow, 100% 304 Stainless : atpturbo.com

And, I had a custom dump tube routed (to the atmosphere). It's loud as @#$% and is tought to get used to. I asked my builder to route it into my downpipe so that it isn't so loud and he was resistant to it but will probably do it eventually. It just attracts too much attention when on boost (on the street).

[di-devol]

You are running a mvs gate as well and it hit?
Open dump wastegate is one of the best things ever.

[e1_griego]

I got mine



Not sure when it's going on, though. Trying to figure out a free night/weekend.

[codyace]

I can't believe how much they are charge for new V bands to fit them...that's robbery! Nice little piece though that they sell...but at 100 dollars (before shipping) for the parts, and then more for the housing, I'd have a hard time swallowing the cost over the manifold with a traditional flange.


And yes, recirculating that dump tube is a must. I can't stand the sound of an exhaust leak, even if it is controlled

[codyace]

What's the outlet? 2.25 or 2.5?

[e1_griego]

I thought it was 2" -- I haven't measured it, though.

[huffandpuff00]

@Seraphim38
Yeah I see that both you and the OP used the MVR(44mm) ewg, but I just figured if I used the shorter MVS(38mm) one I would be able to make it fit straight off the side. PSI should have the flange welded on today and ceramic coated tomorrow, so I think I should have a picture of it all installed next week.

Also I thought you need a smaller wg for more boost. I will be running 20lbs, so isn't the 38mm better at regulating the boost?

I figured the dump pipe would be loud, but I am running PBM straight pipe exhaust anyways and the cops here in Beaverton don't get too worked up about how loud cars are!

[codyace]

While not disagreeing with the gate 'venting' capability, I think some initial drop can be solved with adjustment of the boost controller too. I notice if I have it really soft it will 'loose some steam' sort to speak down low when it vents all exhaust energy, whilst when having a lot of gain built in, it prevents that from happening.

[inopsey]

the boost drop on wastegate opening is less than a quarter psi but if you are looking at a mechanical gauge you can see it drop and spike a tiny bit as the gate operates. im also running 100 gain

[codyace]

I was expecting you to say you were loosing 1-2 psi for a split second...

I'd almost say loosing a quarter of a PSI is is probably attributed to the boost controller stepper motor functioning in general, and nothing more then that.

[huffandpuff00]

flange was welded and is now out for coating...

[codyace]

[Def]

Originally Posted by codyace

Ugh, please bellmouth that inlet lip. Bish looks all frumpy with its fat lip sticking out there. Seriously Garrett, we're talking a few seconds extra machine time to clean up the edges of stuff.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Def

Ugh, please bellmouth that inlet lip. Bish looks all frumpy with its fat lip sticking out there. Seriously Garrett, we're talking a few seconds extra machine time to clean up the edges of stuff.

'pointy elbows'

It is amazing the things that are sometimes overlooked for sure when it comes to what even I'd say is an easy machine process.

[di-devol]

So good!

msglngth

[codyace]

Everythings ready to go. Gonna weld the 90* bend on the compressor housing tomorrow, tack weld the outlet stud nuts and hopefully put it all back together late tomorrow.

[cured13]

I like the idea of less visible (more OEM) setup,
wouldn't be easier and cheaper to just weld the flange on Garret exhaust housing?

[huffandpuff00]

Originally Posted by cured13

I like the idea of less visible (more OEM) setup,
wouldn't be easier and cheaper to just weld the flange on Garret exhaust housing?

Im not sure if it is wide enough. Ill get the .72 back from coating soon and look at them both to see if it is be possible.

[jr_ss]

Wait! Cody, did you purchase the GTX version? I must have missed that somewhere... Here's mine strapped to the RWD VVL. It's an old picture, motor is in the car now.

[codyace]

Well, initially impressions are pretty good. Turbo is MUCH louder than the old one in terms of turbo noise (my inner ricer is happy about that).

So far only got on it off the gate pressure (12psi). Seems to run really well. Didn't really abuse it yet, as tonight was more of a shakedown cruise more than anything (aka: make sure nothing falls off that I put back on hah)


I'm thinking tomorrow I may crank the whick a little

[inopsey]

Originally Posted by codyace

Well, initially impressions are pretty good. Turbo is MUCH louder than the old one in terms of turbo noise (my inner ricer is happy about that).

So far only got on it off the gate pressure (12psi). Seems to run really well. Didn't really abuse it yet, as tonight was more of a shakedown cruise more than anything (aka: make sure nothing falls off that I put back on hah)


I'm thinking tomorrow I may crank the whick a little

did you keep the custom oem manifold with ext gate or are you using the .72 turbine housing with the 44mm gate?

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by codyace

Well, initially impressions are pretty good. Turbo is MUCH louder than the old one in terms of turbo noise (my inner ricer is happy about that).

So far only got on it off the gate pressure (12psi). Seems to run really well. Didn't really abuse it yet, as tonight was more of a shakedown cruise more than anything (aka: make sure nothing falls off that I put back on hah)


I'm thinking tomorrow I may crank the whick a little

Awesome. I can't wait to see your dyno results but my wallet on the other hand is scared of what you might show me! I've been itching to get one of these...

Btw, what's your opinion of the 2863 vs the 2867. Seems like the 63 will be pretty much equivalent to the old 71 in power output (or slightly lower) but have much better response where as the 67 will beat the 71 in power while having a little better response. Do you think 400whp is achievable on a pump gas and a 63 with proper supporting mods? Off the top of my head I believe the flow rates are 43/45/47 lbs/min for the 63/71/67 respectively so it's all very close.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by inopsey

did you keep the custom oem manifold with ext gate or are you using the .72 turbine housing with the 44mm gate?

Same stock manifold, same .64 exhaust side, but now with an MVS 38mm gate.

Originally Posted by huffandpuff00

Im not sure if it is wide enough. Ill get the .72 back from coating soon and look at them both to see if it is be possible.

I don't think it would be wide enough either. The ATP housings have more meat and are cast differently in that area to accept the flange part. While it may not be impossible, I just don't know if I'd attept as that flapper wheel and area is all very close.

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Awesome. I can't wait to see your dyno results but my wallet on the other hand is scared of what you might show me! I've been itching to get one of these...

Trust me when I say, I hope it works too. Trust me when I say if this doesn't work as well as I'm hoping that I'll be seeing how accurate I am with an M16 again...been almost a year since getting out, I hope I still have it

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Btw, what's your opinion of the 2863 vs the 2867. Seems like the 63 will be pretty much equivalent to the old 71 in power output (or slightly lower) but have much better response where as the 67 will beat the 71 in power while having a little better response. Do you think 400whp is achievable on a pump gas and a 63 with proper supporting mods? Off the top of my head I believe the flow rates are 43/45/47 lbs/min for the 63/71/67 respectively so it's all very close.

While capable of 43 lb/min, when you look at the compressor map you'll see that it is not very efficient at the top end, or with a lot of boost...so I'd rate it very similar to the old trusty 28RS...but with a little quicker response and a tad more top end. If you're looking for anything over 350ish whp I'd still say 2871 or GTX2867 as both support the top end ability, more boost, and can safely flow the air needed to make 400+. The nice thing about the GTX2867 is that it allows more headroom for boost (and power)...not that I need more but how cool would a 425-450 (again, just in theory) car be that has full spool before 4000 rpm? I'd have a hard time going V8 with such an option IMO (and I love V8's)

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by codyace

Trust me when I say, I hope it works too. Trust me when I say if this doesn't work as well as I'm hoping that I'll be seeing how accurate I am with an M16 again...been almost a year since getting out, I hope I still have it



While capable of 43 lb/min, when you look at the compressor map you'll see that it is not very efficient at the top end, or with a lot of boost...so I'd rate it very similar to the old trusty 28RS...but with a little quicker response and a tad more top end. If you're looking for anything over 350ish whp I'd still say 2871 or GTX2867 as both support the top end ability, more boost, and can safely flow the air needed to make 400+. The nice thing about the GTX2867 is that it allows more headroom for boost (and power)...not that I need more but how cool would a 425-450 (again, just in theory) car be that has full spool before 4000 rpm? I'd have a hard time going V8 with such an option IMO (and I love V8's)

NO, don't shoot it! Give it to me

And really? Only a little more top end compared to a 28rs?
I was thinking otherwise from compressor maps I've seen like this:


Seems like there's quite a bit more up top from that crude map.

I just now found this link too:
CLICK

These guys are expecting to get close to 400whp at 23psi and already got 359whp out of 19.9psi. Boost came on almost as quick as stock and all this without a boost controller too. However they do have a compression advantage.

I'm not liking how their torque falls off though.

[cotbu]

you first need to know where you land on the map, then which way your going. You don't just move straight up!

[codyace]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

N
These guys are expecting to get close to 400whp at 23psi and already got 359whp out of 19.9psi. Boost came on almost as quick as stock and all this without a boost controller too. However they do have a compression advantage.

I'm not liking how their torque falls off though.

Well, as much as I hate to be debby downer, but we made 360 at 17/18 psi on a 28RS, on a Sentra...And made similar power with 18 psi on a RWD DET. Both cars were running Rom Tunes (Sentra JWT, 240 Enthalpy)...

I know I know, dyno racing is dyno racing...but it is what it is.

Now for the rest of the answer read below:

Originally Posted by cotbu

you first need to know where you land on the map, then which way your going. You don't just move straight up!

100%. For LuckyX2, (and this is VERY generic so none of you coolguys get too worked up over this) you need to remember that the X axis determines airflow (and total HP ability) while the Y axis determines boost ability. Sure you may be able to run 20+ PSI and still be on the chart, you will not be making any more total HP.

So while the 28RS is really maxing out at the 350-360 hp range (sure you could make more, at the expense of heat), the 2863 does seem to allow 400whp at moderate boost....but again, the 2871r does the same thing (albiet at less cost). When you overlay the 63 vs 67 you'll see that the 67 obviously supports more airflow without running out of steam, as well as still having that airflow ability with more boost.

Are the differences much over the 2871r? So far I think so...the car really comes into boost nicer...so while the graph of power over RPM may not be drastic, I can assure you that the graph over time will be a lot nicer. It just stinks that it's hard to compare graphs over time on a consistant basis.