The Sr20/Sr22vet thread

[livelovesole]

I've commited to going the vvl route for my sr20. I've been doing my research on alot of build threads and online sources and believe i've come up with a decent 450-550hp build. I do have a couple questions if anyone can clear them up for me. Any recommendations/ tips/ advice and any positive or negative feedback is greatly appreciated.

S14 Block:
Necessary machine work (deck, hone&bore, hot tank, balance rotating assembly, etc)
CP SR20VE Pistons 87mm 9.0:0 comp. w/ gas ports
Manley H-Beam connecting rods
SR20VE Headgasket
OEM S14 water pump
Oversized water pulley
Plug off unecessary holes on block
Mazworxs timing mark relocation kit
Tomei oversized oil pan
Tomei oil filter relocation kit
ACL wpc treated bearings
ARP main & head studs

P12 Head:
Hot tank and deck
Mazworx comversion kit
Port & polish
Cnc combustion chamber machining to 87mm
Q45 Throttle body
Denso IKH24 spark plugs

Turbo:
Full race top mount SR20VE exhaust manifold w/ dual wastegates
Custom 3in elbow and downpipe

Fuel:
Mazworx fuel rail (in kit)
All AN lines
255 walbro intake to bosch 044 external fuel pump
Surge tank setup
ID1000 fuel injectors

I'm deciding between AEM pencil coils or IGN A1 coils but undecisive ao far. Any pros or cons
Between the 2?

Do you use the OEM SR20DET Timing Chain Kit with this setup?

Very undecisive on a turbo, any personal recommendations ?

I don't want to select a standalone until I find out what my tuner will recommend and is most comfortable with, but any recommendations on this as well or personal favorites with good amounts of failsafes ?

Are any of the S13 guys running into any issuses with hood clearances? I have a dmax vented hood and curious if it'll clear or am i going to have to shave some off.

[brndck]

msglngth.......

Originally Posted by livelovesole

S14 Block:
Necessary machine work (deck, hone&bore, hot tank, balance rotating assembly, etc)
CP SR20VE Pistons 87mm 9.0:0 comp. w/ gas ports
Manley H-Beam connecting rods
SR20VE Headgasket
OEM S14 water pump
Oversized water pulley
Plug off unecessary holes on block
Mazworxs timing mark relocation kit i prefer the Taarks one
Tomei oversized oil pan phase2 pan is pretty much identical,
i went to FRsport and had a phase2, a tomei, and circuit sports pan all right in front of me, and all 3 of them look like comparable quality. i have had a few people tell me that their tomei pans, the flange is not totally flat and they're had to either deck it or use additional silicone to seal.
Tomei oil filter relocation kit
ACL wpc treated bearings WPC is the shit. hit up Bluemoon / MKS in costa mesa if you need WPC service or engine building. they're partners with WPC
ARP main & head studs

P12 Head:
Hot tank and deck
Mazworx comversion kit again i prefer taarks, especially since their latest revision doesn't have a bunch of lines moving the solenoid elsewhere
Port & polish
Cnc combustion chamber machining to 87mm i agree this is overkill for your power goals
Q45 Throttle body what manifold are you planning on? xcessive is nice and very budget friendly, PRL is VERY nice but more ($800 range)
Denso IKH24 spark plugs

Turbo:
Full race top mount SR20VE exhaust manifold w/ dual wastegates
Custom 3in elbow and downpipe

Fuel:
Mazworx fuel rail (in kit)
All AN lines
255 walbro intake to bosch 044 external fuel pump
Surge tank setup
ID1000 fuel injectors maybe i missed it but are you running pump gas or e85 or race gas only?

I'm deciding between AEM pencil coils or IGN A1 coils but undecisive ao far. Any pros or cons
Between the 2?

Do you use the OEM SR20DET Timing Chain Kit with this setup?

Very undecisive on a turbo, any personal recommendations ?

I don't want to select a standalone until I find out what my tuner will recommend and is most comfortable with, but any recommendations on this as well or personal favorites with good amounts of failsafes ?

Are any of the S13 guys running into any issuses with hood clearances? I have a dmax vented hood and curious if it'll clear or am i going to have to shave some off.

[jr_ss]

I'd get 1300cc or larger injectors. You'll max the 1000's out on E85 around mid 500's. Sr20det timing equip will work fine. Make sure you have the proper spacer for the crank pulley.

A twin scroll setup would be the way to go if starting from scratch. If you have a single scroll manifold already, look at the EFR series turbos. The GTX turbos are good as well, if you are sticking around the 500whp mark. Some complain about the response of the 3076R, but this is a great turbo for strong mid range and top end. You'll suffer some spool over an EFR of similar size though. A GTX3576R spools like a 3076r but flows like a 35R.

I recommend a Haltech unit. Designed around Factory Nissan sensors, which means less sensors needed for install. There is also no need for CAS modifications or additional trigger wheels or sensors, you get full 360* of resolution.

I think you have quite a few unnecessary things. Port and polish and combustion chamber machining are not needed, especially with your power goals. I have a stock head, upgraded valve springs and make 485whp on 19-20psi.

JE DET pistons in the 8.5:1 ratio will net you higher static comp than the VE pistons. They are also cheaper.

[livelovesole]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I'd get 1300cc or larger injectors. You'll max the 1000's out on E85 around mid 500's. Sr20det timing equip will work fine. Make sure you have the proper spacer for the crank pulley.

A twin scroll setup would be the way to go if starting from scratch. If you have a single scroll manifold already, look at the EFR series turbos. The GTX turbos are good as well, if you are sticking around the 500whp mark. Some complain about the response of the 3076R, but this is a great turbo for strong mid range and top end. You'll suffer some spool over an EFR of similar size though. A GTX3576R spools like a 3076r but flows like a 35R.

I recommend a Haltech unit. Designed around Factory Nissan sensors, which means less sensors needed for install. There is also no need for CAS modifications or additional trigger wheels or sensors, you get full 360* of resolution.

I think you have quite a few unnecessary things. Port and polish and combustion chamber machining are not needed, especially with your power goals. I have a stock head, upgraded valve springs and make 485whp on 19-20psi.

JE DET pistons in the 8.5:1 ratio will net you higher static comp than the VE pistons. They are also cheaper.

Thank you alot for the information. I do plan on running a twin scroll setup, sorry for not metioning earlier and I'll deffitnitly look into/ consider the gtx35. First time building something to this caliber, want to be safe. Do you think springs are necessary on a P12 head for my power goals? Assuming their supertech det springs that you use.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by livelovesole

Thank you alot for the information. I do plan on running a twin scroll setup, sorry for not metioning earlier and I'll deffitnitly look into/ consider the gtx35. First time building something to this caliber, want to be safe. Do you think springs are necessary on a P12 head for my power goals? Assuming their supertech det springs that you use.

I think the P12 head is just an expensive piece of hardware that doesn't benefit you in anyway shape or form over a P11 head with the same cams. I have yet to see flow numbers for a P12 head. The only thing that supports this claim are the components in the head and slight changes in the casting. They have weaker valve stems(smaller diameter), require custom spring retainers and are more expensive to acquire. The only benefit are the cams are much better than the P11's but that doesn't matter if you're swapping them anyway.

You will need to upgrade your valve springs. You can run the factory P12 springs with the P11 inners for a cheap upgrade. They experience valve float in the higher Roma without an upgrade.

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I think the P12 head is just an expensive piece of hardware that doesn't benefit you in anyway shape or form over a P11 head with the same cams. I have yet to see flow numbers for a P12 head. The only thing that supports this claim are the components in the head and slight changes in the casting. They have weaker valve stems(smaller diameter), require custom spring retainers and are more expensive to acquire. The only benefit are the cams are much better than the P11's but that doesn't matter if you're swapping them anyway.

You will need to upgrade your valve springs. You can run the factory P12 springs with the P11 inners for a cheap upgrade. They experience valve float in the higher Roma without an upgrade.

This is 100% on point, I never recommend the P12 cylinder head due to the aftermarket available for it. A P11 head can easily out perform the P12 especially with our CNC porting that we offer.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I think the P12 head is just an expensive piece of hardware that doesn't benefit you in anyway shape or form over a P11 head with the same cams. I have yet to see flow numbers for a P12 head. The only thing that supports this claim are the components in the head and slight changes in the casting. They have weaker valve stems(smaller diameter), require custom spring retainers and are more expensive to acquire. The only benefit are the cams are much better than the P11's but that doesn't matter if you're swapping them anyway.

You will need to upgrade your valve springs. You can run the factory P12 springs with the P11 inners for a cheap upgrade. They experience valve float in the higher Roma without an upgrade.

Agreed for the most part. For example; P12 head has the 5.5mm exhaust valves vs the 6mm valve. Also, the casting for the P12 head seems to shroud the valves a bit more (it seems the P11 head is better in this regard, but it may still be hit or miss as sometimes the cast would shift during manufacturing).

However, all depends on what the owner wants to run.
P12 head comes with the CAS, coil packs and the valve cover (about $600 in value by themselves). So once you sell everything else off associated with the 6spd FWD and internals (pistons/rods, etc), if one wanted to keep it simple, all you would have to do is go Nismotronic and done. John with the Camo S14 made well over 1000WHP and ran deep into the 8s, used Nismotronic until this year, when he switch to Haltech.


Also, a gentleman did do a flow bench test of a P12 vs a P11 head as recently as of last week (I have the images and flow numbers somewhere). However, he switched out the 5.5mm exhaust valves for the 6mm (which anyone turbocharging this setup will do). As it turns out, the P11 did better up top but fell short a few cfm below .250. The gentleman mentioned the valve shrouding being an issue (and ofcourse, the thicker valves as a good amount of flow is gained from going to a skinnier valve).

Either way, you can't go wrong with either livelovesole. Just make sure you lay out your plan of action, as that can be a $500-$1000 different in prep work (I think the machine shop quoted me $125 + parts for new valve guides (it didn't matter if it was 5.5 or 6 as the work is the same) and redoing the seats). In addition, the P11s do have problems with exhaust valve guide leakage in particular, so I would address those if at the machine shop as cheap insurance.

EDIT 1: Inlet manifold should be the same cost throughout and you can run the P11 dual valve springs (from Supertech) and be just fine if you end up with a cheap P12 head.

EDIT 2: P12 has better cams than the P11.

EDIT 3: With the P12 swap, you will need the P11 oil pimp spacer (P12 is two piece, P11 is correct one piece shorter spacer)

In all honesty, if I was to do it again, I would buy a P12 full swap, sell everything not related to the RWD swap, drop in P11 supertech spring and 6mm exhaust valves, slight deshroud and run nismotronic.

[1gr8bar10der]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I'd get 1300cc or larger injectors. You'll max the 1000's out on E85 around mid 500's. Sr20det timing equip will work fine. Make sure you have the proper spacer for the crank pulley.

A twin scroll setup would be the way to go if starting from scratch. If you have a single scroll manifold already, look at the EFR series turbos. The GTX turbos are good as well, if you are sticking around the 500whp mark. Some complain about the response of the 3076R, but this is a great turbo for strong mid range and top end. You'll suffer some spool over an EFR of similar size though. A GTX3576R spools like a 3076r but flows like a 35R.

I recommend a Haltech unit. Designed around Factory Nissan sensors, which means less sensors needed for install. There is also no need for CAS modifications or additional trigger wheels or sensors, you get full 360* of resolution.

I think you have quite a few unnecessary things. Port and polish and combustion chamber machining are not needed, especially with your power goals. I have a stock head, upgraded valve springs and make 485whp on 19-20psi.

JE DET pistons in the 8.5:1 ratio will net you higher static comp than the VE pistons. They are also cheaper.

Thanks for the info. I follow your build closely on your thread. Will most likely be my setup as well. Just secured a P11 head as my first baby step.

[Options13]

has anyone had the denso pencil coils from mazworx fail on them? my car has randomly started misfiring but the mis fire goes away instatly once the car hits about 3k rpms..

my TPS is cracked and MAY not be functioning, but i don't think that could cause this mis fire?

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by Options13

has anyone had the denso pencil coils from mazworx fail on them? my car has randomly started misfiring but the mis fire goes away instatly once the car hits about 3k rpms..

my TPS is cracked and MAY not be functioning, but i don't think that could cause this mis fire?

What CAS and disk are you running and what are you doing for engine management?

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Options13

has anyone had the denso pencil coils from mazworx fail on them? my car has randomly started misfiring but the mis fire goes away instatly once the car hits about 3k rpms..

my TPS is cracked and MAY not be functioning, but i don't think that could cause this mis fire?

I just installed used CBR Denso coils into my motor. Haven't really run it too much yet but my spark issues(misfire on AEM pencil coils) are gone. Gapped at .028 pulls hard to rev line at 20psi no blow out.

[candyred_240sx]

Had my sr22vet on the dyno today.

667whp/555tq dynojet

GTX3076r .78 twin scroll @ 30psi running 70% ethanol

Pretty happy with the results, car ran 10.7 1/4 mile on Friday hopefully can get it down to 10.4 or so at this power

[brndck]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

Had my sr22vet on the dyno today.

667whp/555tq dynojet

GTX3076r .78 twin scroll @ 30psi running 70% ethanol

Pretty happy with the results, car ran 10.7 1/4 mile on Friday hopefully can get it down to 10.4 or so at this power

thats excellent. i'd love to see a dyno run! is your engine just sleeved and bored out or stroked also?

[candyred_240sx]

Originally Posted by brndck

thats excellent. i'd love to see a dyno run! is your engine just sleeved and bored out or stroked also?

Thanks man.

I will post up the dyno sheet tonight. The block is sleeved, 87mm bore with 91mm stroker crank.

At this power before with a non sleeved block the cylinders ovaled

[brndck]

Originally Posted by candyred_240sx

Thanks man.

I will post up the dyno sheet tonight. The block is sleeved, 87mm bore with 91mm stroker crank.

At this power before with a non sleeved block the cylinders ovaled

dang. i'll have to be careful. I'm running 87mm pistons (CP VE pistons), no sleeves, but I'm only aiming for just over 500whp on pump gas.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by brndck

dang. i'll have to be careful. I'm running 87mm pistons (CP VE pistons), no sleeves, but I'm only aiming for just over 500whp on pump gas.

There are plenty of people deep into the 600's on factory sleeves, albeit I'm unsure of their bore size. You should be fine.

[1gr8bar10der]

Also just out of my curiosity, with these 500++HP numbers, what clutch do you guys use?

[600supersport]

With torque being the issue for the clutch, I opted for the Comp twin disc and it's great on track, but I'd seriously consider the spec stage 5+ next time for the likelihood of a much smoother and more streetable feel with a significant torque capacity, but I haven't tried one yet and I don't street or track the car THAT often. It'd be nice if the car was a bit gentler on the stop & go stuff. I guess I'd expect that single to have a higher chance of overheating after some hot laps than the twin would, but that's pure speculation and I'm not out slipping the clutch a lot or kicking it like crazy either so it's a tough call.

Stiff coilovers, stiff mounts and a twin disc clutch are more physically demanding on me after cruising around for a bit, but they're amazing once you're out on track.

Nice job btw candyred. What transmission and cams are you using?

[candyred_240sx]

Originally Posted by 600supersport

With torque being the issue for the clutch, I opted for the Comp twin disc and it's great on track, but I'd seriously consider the spec stage 5+ next time for the likelihood of a much smoother and more streetable feel with a significant torque capacity, but I haven't tried one yet and I don't street or track the car THAT often. It'd be nice if the car was a bit gentler on the stop & go stuff. I guess I'd expect that single to have a higher chance of overheating after some hot laps than the twin would, but that's pure speculation and I'm not out slipping the clutch a lot or kicking it like crazy either so it's a tough call.

Stiff coilovers, stiff mounts and a twin disc clutch are more physically demanding on me after cruising around for a bit, but they're amazing once you're out on track.

Nice job btw candyred. What transmission and cams are you using?

Thanks. N1 cams and z32 transmission. Kelford cams are on order though

[1gr8bar10der]

Originally Posted by 600supersport

With torque being the issue for the clutch, I opted for the Comp twin disc and it's great on track, but I'd seriously consider the spec stage 5+ next time for the likelihood of a much smoother and more streetable feel with a significant torque capacity, but I haven't tried one yet and I don't street or track the car THAT often. It'd be nice if the car was a bit gentler on the stop & go stuff. I guess I'd expect that single to have a higher chance of overheating after some hot laps than the twin would, but that's pure speculation and I'm not out slipping the clutch a lot or kicking it like crazy either so it's a tough call.

Stiff coilovers, stiff mounts and a twin disc clutch are more physically demanding on me after cruising around for a bit, but they're amazing once you're out on track.

Nice job btw candyred. What transmission and cams are you using?

Thanks for the info. My power goal right now is around 500, which is very minimal compared to most people on here lol.

[Options13]

I'm running aem ver 2 with aems trigger wheel

[LuckyX2]

P12 swap wound up being cheaper than doing a P11. Comes with the CAS so you don't have to buy that or do hall effect and then I sold the cams out of it for more than I could have gotten for P11 cams. Winds up being even more cost effective over a P11 if you want to stay with the P12 cams unlike the N1s I switched to.

Then I used Manley DET single springs and valve seals from a GA16DE. It was cheap.

[mewantkouki]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

P12 swap wound up being cheaper than doing a P11. Comes with the CAS so you don't have to buy that or do hall effect and then I sold the cams out of it for more than I could have gotten for P11 cams. Winds up being even more cost effective over a P11 if you want to stay with the P12 cams unlike the N1s I switched to.

Then I used Manley DET single springs and valve seals from a GA16DE. It was cheap.

What are the open and closed pressures for those springs? I've got a set of supertech singles I'm planning on using with my p12 head.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

What are the open and closed pressures for those springs? I've got a set of supertech singles I'm planning on using with my p12 head.

I think something like 50 and ???. They are lower than the P11.

The link I posted above, take a look through it. It has all those details at the bottom

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

What are the open and closed pressures for those springs? I've got a set of supertech singles I'm planning on using with my p12 head.

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

I think something like 50 and ???. They are lower than the P11.

The link I posted above, take a look through it. It has all those details at the bottom

Where are you getting 50 from? Closed is 90lbs, open is 185-225lbs. 248lbs/inch.
http://www.manleyperformance.com/sc/...r20_kits.shtml

[600supersport]

Seems like a bunch of us in here have relatively similar setups. Anyone ever share timing maps?

[RalliartRsX]

I was referring to stock spring pressures

[livelovesole]

Thank you so much for the great info guys. I just happened to run into a P12 head first so I jumped on it. Brndck: I planned in running the mazworx intake plenum And E85. I was thinking that it would of been better insurance to upgrade the valvetrain but wasn't too sure yet. Ralliart: do you think keeping the 5.5mm intake valves is best then?

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by livelovesole

Thank you so much for the great info guys. I just happened to run into a P12 head first so I jumped on it. Brndck: I planned in running the mazworx intake plenum And E85. I was thinking that it would of been better insurance to upgrade the valvetrain but wasn't too sure yet. Ralliart: do you think keeping the 5.5mm intake valves is best then?

The stem of the valve isn't the concern with the P12 heads, it's the neck of the valve(4.5mm) which can stretch with the added heat of a turbocharged engine.

Inconel or SS valves are the best when it comes to heat management. Sodium filed play a role in longevity, typically used in OEM applications but do have a limit to heat tolerance, usually 1600*F.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

The stem of the valve isn't the concern with the P12 heads, it's the neck of the valve(4.5mm) which can stretch with the added heat of a turbocharged engine.

Inconel or SS valves are the best when it comes to heat management. Sodium filed play a role in longevity, typically used in OEM applications but do have a limit to heat tolerance, usually 1600*F.

Jr has it spot on! The neck is actually 4.5mm. This is all to aid in flow and valvetrain weight which ends up being a downfall when dealing with heat.