What standalone ecu do u recomend?!?!

[hanzbrady]

Originally Posted by fatduece

Lmao. My setup is far from the typical hoonibro piles you see at the track

Well obviously, it doesn't even have a blow off valve. No JDM points 4 u /:

[hanzbrady]

Okay while we have a haltech rep here, do you currently offer any plug and play options for the S13 SR?

[derass]

lol I'm not actually a Haltech rep, was just poking fun because someone above was talking about a PFC rep being in this thread too!

But my Platinum Sport 1000 is "plug-and-play" for S13 SR. It uses a patch harness to connect the factory engine harness to the EMS. Like this:




Stock harness plugs into the blue part and the 2 black connectors plug into the EMS.

There's also the Platinum PRO Plug-In for S15 SR.

[TheRealSy90]

I definitely like the ability to stick my hand in and start the car when I'm not necessarily wanting to get in it yet. Yay cold start maps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derass]

Ahhh, I know what you meant now, I misinterpreted. You're right. The start settings (pulse prime, crank timing) each have a table based on coolant temp. IACV also has cold and hot settings based on user defined thresholds.

[Kingtal0n]

Idle speed and idle airflow are the same thing. You need a $0.35 vacuum line plumbed into the car from say, the brake booster line, to get it to idle at any speed you want cold, regardless of what ECU is installed. Then, stick a $0.02 bolt in it when it warms up to bring the idle back down. I also had another easy idea that I intent to implement and test soon. A circuit to energize the A/C airflow of the IACV when you initially start the vehicle should raise the idle speed as long as the circuit is energized. I am not sure how to time it yet (might just use a switch) but this will accomplish the same thing- extra airflow during cold start for sr20 engines, and using only a single wire. Either way, a switch and some wires can't cost more than a couple dollars.

Still not worth $2000 to fix this, what is merely a $0.37-$2.00 problem. I just don't get the thought process there, but maybe that is because I accept that engine airflow adjustment is as a simple as a line and a bolt, and it does not bother me? Furthermore, it is only an issue for severely cammed engines (HKS 272 in my engine) and that camshaft is specifically for engines making over 500bhp (not a 400hp camshaft, those would idle like stock without issue) and since nobody in their right mind should use an sr20 to make over 400bhp anyways, that means this problem literally doesn't exist except for those rare instances where you want the camshaft lope without the power (like myself). And further, further more, there seems to be some kind of adjustable device on the front of the throttle body I have not attempted to adjust yet, and it might just do the trick with no further additional "special treatment".

I am not a rep of any kind. I am a broke ass college student, and we find ways to make things work while there is no income, then depending on how lazy we are, changes how much time we spend worrying about these details. Basically it all comes down to saving money, and making a profit by driving a car. You can profit from a 240sx... I have every single car I ever owned. But it wasn't by throwing 2k here and 3k there into an inconvenience I could fix with a $2.00 line and bolt.

[TheRealSy90]

Running a vacuum line into the car to plug it every time it warms up just seems extremely ghetto. Let's throw carburetors on it with a choke adjustment lever while we're at it :P

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Running a vacuum line into the car to plug it every time it warms up just seems extremely ghetto. Let's throw carburetors on it with a choke adjustment lever while we're at it :P

1. i would do it to save $1850.00 USD as well as hundred hours tuning a new platform and reading a 200 page manual and wiring/logging inspection that goes with it, and possible trouble shooting involved/paying somebody to do it.

2. the brake booster essentially does the same thing, everytime you mash the brake pedal its like taking the bolt out and putting it back in: un-metered air enters the system and the engine runs lean. But you don't call the vacuum assisted brake booster mechanism "ghetto" despite it acting identically to a hidden line/bolt.

3. I offered several other options and also pointed out that if you aren't using a huge camshaft it is a non-issue.

[ADIDASilvias]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

1. i would do it to save $1850.00 USD [snip]

To be fair, and compare apples to apples cost wise, almost NO ONE is going to find a Power FC for $350. I looked for almost 3 months before I determined that a used unit for the RB25 Neo was never going to come up for sale. A S1/S2 perhaps is more possible, but still super rare.

So cost wise, the L-Jetro clocks in at $850 new with the Commander, plus you are looking at $350 for the Datalogit, and $150 for a Windows Tablet. So $1350 for the capabilities of the ECU plus tuning ability.

A D-Jetro clocks in at $1050 plus $350 for the Datalogit, and $150 for a Windows Tablet. So $1550 for the capabilities of the ECU plus tuning ability.

My Link G4+ GTTLink plug in ecu with a $150 windows tablet will ultimately cost $1317 and has all the capabilities of the Haltech or AEM.

The AEM I6 506 costs $1400 plus a $150 Windows Tablet, the overall cost is $1550.

The Haltech PS 1000 costs $1519 plus a $150 Windows Tablet - $1669

Comparison:

L-Jetro, Datalogit, Win Tablet - $1250
D-Jetro, Datalogit, Win Tablet - $1550
Link G4+, Win Tablet - $1317 <- NEO price, S1/S2 is mildly cheaper
AEM I6 506, Win Tablet - $1550
Haltech PS 1000, Win Tablet - $1669

These are prices I just pulled from eBay, so YMMV slightly, but it gives you a good idea of the true cost without finding a diamond in the rough with a used PFC.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by ADIDASilvias

To be fair, and compare apples to apples cost wise, almost NO ONE is going to find a Power FC for $350. I looked for almost 3 months before I determined that a used unit for the RB25 Neo was never going to come up for sale. A S1/S2 perhaps is more possible, but still super rare.

So cost wise, the L-Jetro clocks in at $850 new with the Commander, plus you are looking at $350 for the Datalogit, and $150 for a Windows Tablet. So $1350 for the capabilities of the ECU plus tuning ability.

cost is relative and depends on how fast you want something. I've seen MANY power FC on ebay for $400-$450, more than I could count. You have to be patient. Also, I never owned a tablet, any laptop or even a desktop computer can work. You dont need a tablet to tune with.

Heres one for $300
http://www.ebay.com/itm/apexi-power-...FXx19z&vxp=mtr

and $400
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apexi-Power-...9X3oZR&vxp=mtr

and $300 again
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apexi-power-...JX0so~&vxp=mtr


they come up all the time for common swaps. Just be patient. Then, a MAF power FC, can EASILY be tuned via commander (no need to buy a data-logit) the data-logit is for people who want to tune the basemap of a D-jetro (map sensor type). If you are into map sensors, to begin with, you should be in the 500+RWHP crowd. No reason to go map until 480rwhp+. Therefore, you might be looking at better ECU options anyways (AEM, Haltech, etc) I would never suggest somebody buy a brand new PFC D-jetro over an AEM for 500+rwhp setups. Personally, I would never spend over $500 on any power FC, that isn't an option for me.

Originally Posted by pacotaco345

Lol some people just don't want to run BOVs. I don't run one on my car because compressor surge sounds way less lame than some chirping wooshing noise every time you let off the throttle.

This is novice/newb thinking. I have 2 bypass valves on my car and neither one of them makes a chirp or woosh noise. The noise is for beginners, first time turbo owners. A truly well setup turbocharger system incorporates significant insulation, and is deathly silent, because a silent exhaust/tone overall is an enormous benefit to listening to the engine itself. Noise in general will put a damper on your ability to diagnose the engine, mechanically.

[ADIDASilvias]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Heres one for $300
http://www.ebay.com/itm/apexi-power-...FXx19z&vxp=mtr

S13 SR20det

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

and $400
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apexi-Power-...9X3oZR&vxp=mtr

Mitsu EVO X

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

and $300 again
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apexi-power-...JX0so~&vxp=mtr

S13 SR20det


Am I missing something, or did I just state something specific to the RB25det the OP was looking at for a stand alone ECU?

Look for used RB25det Power FC units. 0, let me repeat, 0 come up on eBay. Plenty of RB26, but NONE for RB25.

Be patient, that's your answer? Well then I should just be patient and find a used Haltech for half or less than the original and the point still stands.

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

cost is relative and depends on how fast you want something. I've seen MANY power FC on ebay for $400-$450, more than I could count. You have to be patient. Also, I never owned a tablet, any laptop or even a desktop computer can work. You dont need a tablet to tune with.

So remove the tablet from the totals, it's in EVERY one. The cost difference is still the same. I only stated 'Windows Tablet' because it is the cheapest option for a decent computer to hook up and tune with. Tuning with only the Hand Commander is silly. If this were the best idea, shops that tune the Power FC wouldn't bother with having a datalogit and a laptop, tablet, computer, etc. "Hey, you have a Hand Commander? Sweet, that's all I need!" - said no competent tuner ever...

[zombiewolf513]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Running a vacuum line into the car to plug it every time it warms up just seems extremely ghetto. Let's throw carburetors on it with a choke adjustment lever while we're at it :P

Ive seen people run a sort of modified choke lever for this. Crushed/rolled the tube and locked in

[TheRealSy90]

So shouldn't you be able to cold start the car with your foot on the brake? Without this vacuum line shenanigans.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So shouldn't you be able to cold start the car with your foot on the brake? Without this vacuum line shenanigans.

no, its just a one time thing. the vacuum only leaks when you STEP DOWN on the brake. Once the pedal stops moving there is no more leak. The point was simply that these leaks exist, even if you are not aware of them. Its part of the big picture of where air goes on an engine, lots of people don't realize the brake mechanism is a source for unmetered air. Try pumping the brake and watch the wideband go lean.

[hanzbrady]

30-50% less power output given the investment?!!! Really? I call bullshit on that one... you're pulling numbers out of your ass.

Well, I mean i don't know about those exact numbers, but let's take the RB25 VS a 2JZ the 2JZ will cost roughly the same to buy (could be had much cheaper if buying stateside and converting a non turbo block to turbo, is half a liter bigger, and most of that being in stroke.

So cost X output the JZ family would win here stateside at least.

[Juan@Fontananissan]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

Well, I mean i don't know about those exact numbers, but let's take the RB25 VS a 2JZ the 2JZ will cost roughly the same to buy (could be had much cheaper if buying stateside and converting a non turbo block to turbo, is half a liter bigger, and most of that being in stroke.

So cost X output the JZ family would win here stateside at least.

I don't think so. (I've worked with both RB's and JZ's)

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

Well, I mean i don't know about those exact numbers, but let's take the RB25 VS a 2JZ the 2JZ will cost roughly the same to buy (could be had much cheaper if buying stateside and converting a non turbo block to turbo, is half a liter bigger, and most of that being in stroke.

So cost X output the JZ family would win here stateside at least.

yes, the 2jz-gte can be purchased for less than an RB25, and carries an extra 0.5L of displacementso is naturally favored. I would never want to open one up though (no turbo conversions). Just use the JDM "cheapy" automatic motorset and put a reasonable single on it, 480~rwhp and a SAFC is cheap and reliable that way. Perfectly fine for a daily, 10 years you can get out of one (100,000 miles+) The money needs to go into the transmission. That is where the true heart of the vehicle lies. You have to get the right converter, the right shift kit, and using the OEM trans computer is possible this way, it will be a low 11-second pump gas daily on street tires with a 2.6 second 60', with less than 5k under the hood. Not a bad little setup.

I found a picture of one of them, from 2008. This was a cookie cutter build, engines were purchased 2jz-automatic for $1200~ at that time, everything including the car and paint came to just under $13,500~ and we sold the cars like this, auto, safc, 500~rwhp for around 18-25k each. This one went to the track a couple times on nitrous. You can see the skylineking.com sticker on the front, I had made back then for the website I created to help sell the cars. Very simple builds, ebay manifolds for this engine never cracked, twin-walbro fuel pumps for when the boost was turned up (the turbo supports around 750rwhp iirc and we did use race gas "C16" for those passes, yes using an OEM longblock).

Top pic is a black kouki with the same engine/swap as the bottom blue kouki. The black car was the only one with nitrous / went to the track though. We even kept the A/C, if you look carefully in the front there is a small condenser we found laying on the floor of the shop in the back, nobody knew what car it came from but it worked fine.



Many will spend months, or years, building a car. I am not into that idea, and the most important lesson I learned from experience is that it doesn't have to be that way.
In just 3 days, you can turn out a car like that, or this. I broke this one up into sections so you can see what I mean.

Being able to produce a 400 or 500whp daily driver, 28-30mpg, in a couple days, is the only way to play the 240sx game IMO. You aren't going to be able to do that waiting on a machine shop, for example, and these cars are "cheap" so most of that extra money spent 'building and waiting' will be wasted (no profit for the owner) especially if the built engine fails shortly (more common than you might realize).
The high frequency of using OEM longblocks in builds, and testing their limitations was the key, and now we all know what works so there is no more guessing.

[TheRealSy90]

IMO the better the ems you choose, the closer you can get to a factory-like tune and drivability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ADIDASilvias]

I suppose one main difference is I never plan on selling my Zenki. I have a lot of personal time invested into it at this point, and unless I fall on hard times it will be one of the last things I consider selling. I'm not looking at it as an investment, I know I'll never get out of it what I have in it. There is the possibility that the value increases in the future, but I don't really care. It's as much about the journey as it is about the destination to me. Every part I have selected has had thought and consideration to achieve a specific goal. The car will probably never be truly complete, in the sense that there will always be something I may want to revise or upgrade based on new tech or personal preference at the time. But that is the difference between building a car to make a sale versus building it for the enjoyment of building and driving your own handiwork. You look at it as a game, I look at it as decently expensive hobby. Two sides of the 240 coin.

Also, that $1200 dollar engine in 2008 is now a $2400 or more engine now. And maybe it's just me, but I would never drive an automatic, especially when it is surrounded by a sports car. It cheapens the experience. That's how I feel about it anyhow.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by ADIDASilvias

I suppose one main difference is I never plan on selling my Zenki. I have a lot of personal time invested into it at this point, and unless I fall on hard times it will be one of the last things I consider selling. I'm not looking at it as an investment, I know I'll never get out of it what I have in it.

1. Time
From an enthusiast point of view, more time spent driving the car means less time spent building it, just like more time spent building it means less time driving it. I am only trying to get for us the most driving time for the smallest investment of build time possible with this idea.

2. Cost
Profit is no longer an applicable idea in 2016 where concerning a 240, unless it is a completely stock low mileage unit you buy at blue-book price and flip. I never meant to imply that a 240 should be built for profit; I was only showing that side of the game to give some ideas of what is possible to achieve as far as built time and routine (the same build, over and over, "cookie cutter" gives a repeatable result for a guaranteed investment, no surprises) and how cost can be reduced by using known reliable configurations.

3. Reliability
If we cut down on time investment, and cost investment, how can we maintain reliability? For daily drivers, we need maximum mileage and maximum cold starts, which generally means tight bearing clearances, light weight oils, and parts that tolerate cold-style driving well. Enter the wide variety of factory engines, already built with this in mind. If you stay within a fair margin of a factory engine's output (figure 140-160% of rated OEM output for a majority of OEM engines in the world), reliability will be excellent, and this will cut down on many different kinds of costs and time. It should be the goal of any budget minded enthusiast to use an OEM engine, not only because it will generally be more cost effective, but because it will be more reliable, and if replacements are accessible this further heightens the advantage of using one.

[Tyler_240]

Megasquirt...has everything you need and want at a reasonable price

[ADIDASilvias]

Originally Posted by Tyler_240

Megasquirt...has everything you need and want at a reasonable price

Whereas I respect your opinion due to the fact that MS is a viable option and has a lot going for it considering the price, I would not personally choose it due to the learning curve. It isn't the easiest system to implement, and requires a great deal of research to get initially set up and tuned.

MS, along with Nistune, are probably the cheapest options for engine management. Nistune being ultimately the easier of the two, and MS being quite a bit more powerful.

I initially looked at Nistune, and was all for it until I started adding up costs of the daughter board (DB), install of the DB, and software license. I have no problem soldering most things, but the connection points on the daughter board are fricken tiny and outside of my skill comfort zone, so I would have someone familiar with the install do it. I also did not receive an ECU with my engine, so the additional $100 to $150 for the stock ECU was also added. By that point you were looking at PFC L-Jetro territory, minus the Datalogit, and the PFC is a better option.

So I looked at MS since the price is fairly cheap. I read A LOT in the MS forums, and it seemed like implementation would be fairly difficult, though obviously not impossible, and my personal opinion was it wasn't something I wanted to get into. If NateMR2 feels it is worth the effort, then it is a viable option for a fair price.

[Tyler_240]

You are not wrong, and I agree that there is a learning curve, but that is with anything you go with.

With your list of mods, I would highly suggest going IAT & MAP and ditch your MAF setup. I also converted my water temp sender to a GM unit. There is a preset for your wideband in the config. Also, with your GM coils, you can easily have the dwell adjusted for optimal.

While you can do this on other units, I can do these corrections from my phone over BT. It cost me $13.00 for the Bluetooth module, 30mins to solder a few connections, and DIY the shit, and the MSDROID App is free.

You can datalog to your phone, tablet, etc...and you get free firmware upgrades as well. While the wiring may look tedious at first, everything is well documented.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't be scared away. The VEAnalyze is a great feature, look into it. I use the flat shift and launch control features and they work precisely.

Originally Posted by ADIDASilvias

Whereas I respect your opinion due to the fact that MS is a viable option and has a lot going for it considering the price, I would not personally choose it due to the learning curve. It isn't the easiest system to implement, and requires a great deal of research to get initially set up and tuned.

MS, along with Nistune, are probably the cheapest options for engine management. Nistune being ultimately the easier of the two, and MS being quite a bit more powerful.

I initially looked at Nistune, and was all for it until I started adding up costs of the daughter board (DB), install of the DB, and software license. I have no problem soldering most things, but the connection points on the daughter board are fricken tiny and outside of my skill comfort zone, so I would have someone familiar with the install do it. I also did not receive an ECU with my engine, so the additional $100 to $150 for the stock ECU was also added. By that point you were looking at PFC L-Jetro territory, minus the Datalogit, and the PFC is a better option.

So I looked at MS since the price is fairly cheap. I read A LOT in the MS forums, and it seemed like implementation would be fairly difficult, though obviously not impossible, and my personal opinion was it wasn't something I wanted to get into. If NateMR2 feels it is worth the effort, then it is a viable option for a fair price.

[ADIDASilvias]

Originally Posted by ThePaddy

Try pricing a mistake ECU

It's a simple ECU with some nice features and better resolution.

It is more developed than a pfc

Lol, autocorrect must have gotten you. Unless it actually is a 'mistake' ECU... Probably not gonna touch that one if the developers named it that...

Originally Posted by Tyler_240

You are not wrong, and I agree that there is a learning curve, but that is with anything you go with.

With your list of mods, I would highly suggest going IAT & MAP and ditch your MAF setup. I also converted my water temp sender to a GM unit. There is a preset for your wideband in the config. Also, with your GM coils, you can easily have the dwell adjusted for optimal.

While you can do this on other units, I can do these corrections from my phone over BT. It cost me $13.00 for the Bluetooth module, 30mins to solder a few connections, and DIY the shit, and the MSDROID App is free.

You can datalog to your phone, tablet, etc...and you get free firmware upgrades as well. While the wiring may look tedious at first, everything is well documented.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't be scared away. The VEAnalyze is a great feature, look into it. I use the flat shift and launch control features and they work precisely.

I'm actually not the OP, though it seems I may have threadjacked, which I apologize for as that was not my intention. I was in the same boat as nateMR2 about 6 months ago, and I have approximately the same power goals, though I chose the R34 Rb25det Neo. I'm looking to make approximately 450rwhp initially with a conservative tune, with the engine and support mods able to handle around 650rwhp at the most. I most likely will not be pushing it for quite awhile since 450 in a street 240 will probably be plenty.

Traction will be handled by 255/35R18 fronts and 275/35R18 rears in BFG Sport Comp 2 flavor.

Suspension is FEAL 441 with 8k/5k Swift spring rates, valved by Odi for road racing.

Adjustable arms are ISR Pro Series all around (every arm available).

New Moog ball joints front and rear.

New OEM 5 lug hubs all corners

Subframe bushings are Energy Suspension Poly. Diff bushings are ISR solid.

Brakes are Z32 (30mm aluminum fronts) all around, 17/16" master cylinder, with cross drilled and slotted rotors.

Headlights are clear covers with HID projector retrofit.

Everything above is already complete. I'll get the engine swap done over the winter, then move on to interior and exterior.

If you go back and look at my list, I am going MAP and IAT with the Link G4+ ECU. I was posting my set-up to give nateMR2 an idea of the list of items maybe not required, but recommended, for supporting the HP he wants. He could accomplish the HP goal with less, but he also mentioned reliability which is one of my goals as well, and why I have an extensive list of support mods.

[derass]

People might call a truck engine an LS, but in reality it's an Lxx. That's all I'm saying, not disputing their capabilities.

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by derass

People might call a truck engine an LS, but in reality it's an Lxx. That's all I'm saying, not disputing their capabilities.

Yeah, I dont get hung up on names. LMthis and LTthat, its all the same to me. What is important is that you know which one you are looking at, you know what you want. You know what they are capable of and you know what parts to install to get to that cookie cutter result with no surprises, up and running fast and driving the car you enjoy. Tuning is relative, all engines operate with similar principles and are tuned using similar methods, ECU all operate in virtually the same manner, a digital processor flips digital outputs on and off to time fuel and spark. The question is: whether you, as the owner, have the ability or not, to adjust these output parameters to your engine's liking over as wide range as possible that determines the overall result. A result which, if you have been paying attention, can be pre-determined before spending a single penny (the cookie cutter philosophy)

[ThePaddy]

Try pricing a mistake ECU

It's a simple ECU with some nice features and better resolution.

It is more developed than a pfc

[Corbic]

Megasquirt

[Freddy]

Ecumasters has a black Friday sale now original EMU for 799$

[derass]

^^Looks like the base ECUMasters unit needs to be wired from scratch.

Their plug-and-play solution doesn't look very easy or elegant either, it appears as if you still need to pin the adapter.



Regardless, seems like a good deal for the extra bit of work. I know a guy with a 500+ WHP JZ using one.