KA 3" exhaust before/after dyno - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Ricks15 · 02-28-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

How do you know this?

Thats becasue I drive my car around and I doesnt have that tourqe that it did when I had the stock exhaust, For example when I launch the car to go fast I bearly feel that small pull of tourque. I dont know its wierd becasue maybe my clutch is screwed or someting cuz thats how I noticed that differnce to make the tires skid it takes some extra effort by pressing the gas before it was just rev it up a little and take the foot off the clutch and it would skid OK cuz it had tourqe.

I'm Redline · 05-12-2018, 08:02 AM

I just know that true 2.5", or 65mm if you will, OBX Racing header, Megan test pipe, OBX Racing Cat Back with true 2.5" flat oval dual exit muffler(non OBXR), pulls hard from just off idle to 7200rpm. It has a minor dip between 3800 and 4200, but really small. ACT 13# flywheel seems to help

***S14DB*** · 02-28-2006, 10:58 PM

ah, the almighty ass dyno.

jdm538 · 03-01-2006, 04:10 AM

i dont know but i had 2.5in piping and recently switched to 3in and it made a big difference.

Dopefish · 03-01-2006, 12:10 PM

To explain the butt-dyno.. as I use to have a huge misconception of backpressure as well.... the feeling of torque upon launch was lost due to the engine not having to fight as much to get the exhaust out of the way. Thus the powerband has smoothed out a little bit in key areas. With less restriction always comes more power as proven by this dyno and many others. You arent feeling the gains but the gains are indeed there, just delivered much more smoothly which is yet another improvement.

I cant wait to see the cams and header gains, I am doing the cams this weekend hopefully. I'll be using 240/248, stock configuration instead of the 248/248 combo. Are you going to dyno headers, then dyno a test-pipe in place of the cat as well? I dont think an intake will yield too many gains as the stocker flows pretty well already, the filter itself may be an improvement due to surface area though.

~Kris

sideview_180sx · 03-01-2006, 04:02 PM

the 4K rpm difference I thought were butterflies opening up in the intake mani.

anyotherone · 03-01-2006, 04:36 PM

I'm going to dyno the header with the cat in first, then I'll see about adding a test pipe to see what it gains. I'm going to dyno it tomorrow with the header and see what it does.

Hopefully on Saturday I'll swap the cams in... I can't decide if I'm going to put in the stock 240/248 first or just go straight for the 248/248 since I have the extra cam to do it. I'll leave it up to you guys - which would you rather see?

SochBAT · 03-01-2006, 09:01 PM

2.25" piping with a raptor exhaust.

I win with throttle response!!

Dopefish · 03-02-2006, 07:11 AM

Thats excellant that you will be testing the exhaust the way you are so each peice will show gains, that way we can see which part offers the most improvement.

I'd rather see the 240/248 combo since I plan to run them that way. Then possibly 248/248 if you still feel the nead for them so that we could see a graphed differance in the powerband and how it is changed between the differant cam configurations.

~Kris

BigVinnie · 03-02-2006, 09:00 PM

It would also be nice to see what gains an SAFC can make on an already 7% rich KA24de ecu, with the cams and exhaust system.

***S14DB*** · 03-02-2006, 09:12 PM

I know I was running Hella lean on those runs.

This should help with those looking for back pressure: http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...&products_id=3

waynehead05 · 03-02-2006, 10:08 PM

^how does that thing work?

Neejay · 03-03-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynehead05

^how does that thing work?

LOL

Are you serious? Just read the description...its a joke.

Come on, 100% back pressure? Read any other product review on the site.

anyotherone · 03-04-2006, 10:10 AM

Ok, so here it is... First off, let me say that the pacesetter ka24 header completely sucks. The fit and finish, the install, no hardware, etc... sometimes you just get what you pay for.

That said... I am very pleased with gains. Here's a graph mapping the gains from all three mods, and the AFR using the stock ECU.

Run 1 = Stock
Run 5 = 3" Blitz Realize exhaust
Run 9 = 3" exhaust and Pacesetter 4-1 header

anyotherone · 03-04-2006, 10:14 AM

By the way, this header removes the primary cat, but I left the second one in. The exhaust note is now VERY loud and pretty raspy and sort of "hollow" sounding, similar to the effect that longtube headers have on the sound of V8's.

***S14DB*** · 03-04-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyotherone

By the way, this header removes the primary cat, but I left the second one in. The exhaust note is now VERY loud and pretty raspy and sort of "hollow" sounding, similar to the effect that longtube headers have on the sound of V8's.

Get a resonated test pipe. That hollow section makes some weird noises. The resonated test pipe should clear it up.

someguy_240 · 03-04-2006, 11:06 AM

the second cat? you talking about the s14 right? The s14's dont have a second cat. Its hollow! have you never took that thing out and see what it really is? somekind of hollow resonator or cat look a like

and lastly are those dyno runs with or without any tuning during the dyno

Gearhead_42 · 03-04-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someguy_240

the second cat? you talking about the s14 right? The s14's dont have a second cat. Its hollow! have you never took that thing out

Ummm no. YMMV, but on my 96 auto the primary (smaller on near the manifold) AND the secondary (big flatter one) BOTH are active cats.

Anyway, I've gone with Hotshot headers, Magnaflow 2.5" hiflow cat, and HKS HiPower catback. I welded in the appropriate O2 sensor bungs to keep the OBD happy and use the second Hotshot sensor bung for an AF meter. The intake side has an Injen CAI minus the extension. Butt dyno tells me there a significant HP increase over 3400 RPM, and it runs right up to the rev limiter now (used to tail off about 600 RPM short).

Don Nimi offers a bolt in hiflow cat through his PDM Racing site, if you want to "keep it legal"

l8r
Dan

sunnys14 · 03-04-2006, 05:00 PM

i had the pacesetter 4-1 header and blitz nur spec R exhaust. kinda loud but i felt some gains also. the quality of the pacesetter header was absolute crap. it got rusty 1 day after i drove it. the reason i picked this header over hotshot, OBX, and DC sports was because pacesetter is the only company on the market that makes a 4-1 header. 4-1 is mainly made for top end gains.

BigVinnie · 03-04-2006, 07:13 PM

ECU tune at this point should show some major gains.

anyotherone · 03-04-2006, 07:39 PM

I finished tailoring my basemap and the car pulls much smoother now. I eliminated the 4k dip and trimmed up the timing... the curve is definately smooth, but the peak numbers aren't much different. Tomorrow or Monday I'm going to finish up the tune and I'll post my results. After that I'm going to install the S13 240/248 combo and see what it looks like.

From there I might build an intake pipe with an open filter to see if any intake restriction is holding me back. Since I'm tuning the AEM with the MAP sensor I can completely delete the MAF.

I'm curious about intake manifolds and wilder cams, but I'm trying to map out the average 240sx owners options for cheap power in order to help out the community.

BigVinnie · 03-04-2006, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyotherone

I finished tailoring my basemap and the car pulls much smoother now. I eliminated the 4k dip and trimmed up the timing... the curve is definately smooth, but the peak numbers aren't much different.

I'm curious to know what octane you are using? Why haven't you disabled closed loop (or just knock sensor). You will show larger gains disabling closed loop so that the knock sensor doesn't retard timing on WOT.

boosteds13 · 03-04-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

I'm curious to know what octane you are using? Why haven't you disabled closed loop (or just knock sensor). You will show larger gains disabling closed loop so that the knock sensor doesn't retard timing on WOT.

Umm.... wtf? "disable" the knock sensor? If the knock sensor is not there, the ecu goes into limp mode. If you use a resistor or whatever to "simulate" a knock sensor, then a bad tank of gas = no more motor. If the car is properly tuned, then the knock sensor shouldn't be an issue. Lastly, there is a knock sensor on there for a reason- you should probably use it...

BigVinnie · 03-04-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boosteds13

Umm.... wtf? "disable" the knock sensor? If the knock sensor is not there, the ecu goes into limp mode. If you use a resistor or whatever to "simulate" a knock sensor, then a bad tank of gas = no more motor. If the car is properly tuned, then the knock sensor shouldn't be an issue. Lastly, there is a knock sensor on there for a reason- you should probably use it...

This is stated from the ECCS forums....
For those that don't know the Juan Willie tune..
http://www.hybridka.com/eccs/viewtopic.php?t=214
You don't need knock sensors for NA applications, only boosted. Adding knock signal to an NA engine only retards timing when trying to climb at higher RPMs and advancing ignition timing during WOT.
Ignition timing and fuel dumping can always be tuned or modified, it gives NA engines alot more room to play with power.

***S14DB*** · 03-04-2006, 08:36 PM

Why is it a good idea to disable the knock sensor?

BigVinnie · 03-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Sounds good, I was just asking what octane you were using because (Scott)in geocities had a JWT tune, crank pulley, header and Greddy 3" exhaust. With no cams he pulled 169WHP, and 170ft/lb.s of torque using 104 octane to prevent any knock that would decrease the ignition timing. He also used the stock intake so those were pretty good numbers.
If the knock sensor is disabled (closed loop) those same numbers could be achieved on lower octanes, after all the KA's CR is under 9.6:1, I seriously doubt detonation would ocurr with that CR and 96octane. Then there is no interferance with the knock sensor at higher RPMs possibly allowing to achieve those same HP numbers. Of course with some fine tuning of the ignition and fuel maps.......
I defenitely wouldn't risk disabling open loop if infact I was running higher CR's that would cause detonation, so in this instance closed loop would not be disabled.....
Who said anything about tuning with an AEM $1400? Biki Roms are $300 and follow nissan ECCS developement. AEM EMS is reversed engineering that can sometimes be counterproductive in making BIG HP numbers, IMO many standalones are outdated and expensive once you've been taught ROM emulation, it's just more cost effective, and it SHOULD be affordable for those that just do exhaust tuning, or basic bolt ons, JWT blows.

sultan · 03-05-2006, 10:48 PM

i've got a 3" resonated testpipe from my s13 i'm not using, a little scraped on the bottom but will trade for cheap dyno time to see what my almost stock ka is putting down.

anyotherone · 03-05-2006, 11:19 PM

bigvinnie - interesting numbers... but you really can't compare numbers from one dyno to another, or really even one car to another. That dynosheet doesn't prove anything without a baseline on his car for comparison to see how much he actually gained over stock.

If bikiROM can be used to tune and it's cheaper, then good deal. What I have to tune with is an AEM EMS. Most guys will be using an SAFC, JWT ecu, or emanage to tune an S14 KA24de. What I said still stands - I'm doing some basic tuning here to begin with. After that, I'll do what I feel neccessary to make the power that I'm shooting for.

I'll post the tuned dyno runs tomorrow.

BigVinnie · 03-05-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyotherone

bigvinnie - interesting numbers... but you really can't compare numbers from one dyno to another, or really even one car to another. That dynosheet doesn't prove anything without a baseline on his car for comparison to see how much he actually gained over stock.

Agreed. But it is still a KA with a dyno sheet. True not all dyno's are the same either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyotherone

Most guys will be using an SAFC, JWT ecu, or emanage to tune an S14 KA24de. What I said still stands.

JWT tunes for the s14 OBD2 suck all they do is remove speed limiter, there isn't any significant changes in the MAPS, and supposedly OBD2 ecu's are already as aggressive as they get for ignition timing to knock signal. Unlike stock OBD1 ECU's the stock tune is less aggressive and actual runs a bit richer, probably because of SCV's.

redpotatoes · 03-06-2006, 11:14 AM

Looking foward to see the dyno for your cams swap. I currently have the 248/248 setup. I want to try 248/232 and 248/240 this summer. Not sure which one is best but there is only one way to be sure. Keep on posting your dyno sheets and updates. References is always a good thing.

05-12-2018, 08:02 AM	#2
I'm Redline Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Upper Mid TN Posts: 954 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I just know that true 2.5", or 65mm if you will, OBX Racing header, Megan test pipe, OBX Racing Cat Back with true 2.5" flat oval dual exit muffler(non OBXR), pulls hard from just off idle to 7200rpm. It has a minor dip between 3800 and 4200, but really small. ACT 13# flywheel seems to help __________________ 1996 Zenki 'Baraketsu Tenshi', Burst Angel My work in progress...

02-28-2006, 10:58 PM	#3
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	ah, the almighty ass dyno. __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

03-01-2006, 12:10 PM	#5
Dopefish Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 39 Posts: 304 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	To explain the butt-dyno.. as I use to have a huge misconception of backpressure as well.... the feeling of torque upon launch was lost due to the engine not having to fight as much to get the exhaust out of the way. Thus the powerband has smoothed out a little bit in key areas. With less restriction always comes more power as proven by this dyno and many others. You arent feeling the gains but the gains are indeed there, just delivered much more smoothly which is yet another improvement. I cant wait to see the cams and header gains, I am doing the cams this weekend hopefully. I'll be using 240/248, stock configuration instead of the 248/248 combo. Are you going to dyno headers, then dyno a test-pipe in place of the cat as well? I dont think an intake will yield too many gains as the stocker flows pretty well already, the filter itself may be an improvement due to surface area though. ~Kris __________________ It never got fast enough for me. -Hunter S. Thompson

03-01-2006, 04:02 PM	#6
sideview_180sx Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: somewhere north of mexico Posts: 1,538 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	the 4K rpm difference I thought were butterflies opening up in the intake mani. __________________ feel the rythym. feel the ride. get on up. it's bobsled time. COOL RUNNINGS!!! formerly sideviewcivic Save a Horse. Drift This Cowboy. AirBag Club Member #0014

03-02-2006, 07:11 AM	#9
Dopefish Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 39 Posts: 304 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thats excellant that you will be testing the exhaust the way you are so each peice will show gains, that way we can see which part offers the most improvement. I'd rather see the 240/248 combo since I plan to run them that way. Then possibly 248/248 if you still feel the nead for them so that we could see a graphed differance in the powerband and how it is changed between the differant cam configurations. ~Kris __________________ It never got fast enough for me. -Hunter S. Thompson

03-01-2006, 04:10 AM	#4
jdm538 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: LA/OC SOCAL Posts: 3,517 Trader Rating: (30) Feedback Score: 30 reviews	i dont know but i had 2.5in piping and recently switched to 3in and it made a big difference.

03-01-2006, 04:36 PM	#7
anyotherone Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 330 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: anyotherone Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I'm going to dyno the header with the cat in first, then I'll see about adding a test pipe to see what it gains. I'm going to dyno it tomorrow with the header and see what it does. Hopefully on Saturday I'll swap the cams in... I can't decide if I'm going to put in the stock 240/248 first or just go straight for the 248/248 since I have the extra cam to do it. I'll leave it up to you guys - which would you rather see?

03-01-2006, 09:01 PM	#8
SochBAT Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Age: 39 Posts: 6,428 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: SochBAT Feedback Score: 9 reviews	2.25" piping with a raptor exhaust. I win with throttle response!!

03-02-2006, 09:00 PM	#10
BigVinnie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Walnut Crizzle, Crackifornia Age: 46 Posts: 1,266 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: BigVinnie Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It would also be nice to see what gains an SAFC can make on an already 7% rich KA24de ecu, with the cams and exhaust system.

03-02-2006, 09:12 PM	#11
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I know I was running Hella lean on those runs. This should help with those looking for back pressure: http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main...&products_id=3 __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

03-02-2006, 10:08 PM	#12
waynehead05 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas Age: 38 Posts: 466 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	^how does that thing work? __________________ Who in their right mind would want to lead this nation of Me-First Right-Now Do Nothings??

03-04-2006, 10:10 AM	#14
anyotherone Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 330 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: anyotherone Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Ok, so here it is... First off, let me say that the pacesetter ka24 header completely sucks. The fit and finish, the install, no hardware, etc... sometimes you just get what you pay for. That said... I am very pleased with gains. Here's a graph mapping the gains from all three mods, and the AFR using the stock ECU. Run 1 = Stock Run 5 = 3" Blitz Realize exhaust Run 9 = 3" exhaust and Pacesetter 4-1 header

03-04-2006, 10:14 AM	#15
anyotherone Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 330 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: anyotherone Feedback Score: 8 reviews	By the way, this header removes the primary cat, but I left the second one in. The exhaust note is now VERY loud and pretty raspy and sort of "hollow" sounding, similar to the effect that longtube headers have on the sound of V8's.

03-04-2006, 11:06 AM	#17
someguy_240 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Jose Age: 44 Posts: 203 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the second cat? you talking about the s14 right? The s14's dont have a second cat. Its hollow! have you never took that thing out and see what it really is? somekind of hollow resonator or cat look a like and lastly are those dyno runs with or without any tuning during the dyno __________________ "...But my tires were wet!"

03-04-2006, 05:00 PM	#19
sunnys14 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: a land far far away... Posts: 1,549 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	i had the pacesetter 4-1 header and blitz nur spec R exhaust. kinda loud but i felt some gains also. the quality of the pacesetter header was absolute crap. it got rusty 1 day after i drove it. the reason i picked this header over hotshot, OBX, and DC sports was because pacesetter is the only company on the market that makes a 4-1 header. 4-1 is mainly made for top end gains.

03-04-2006, 07:13 PM	#20
BigVinnie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Walnut Crizzle, Crackifornia Age: 46 Posts: 1,266 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: BigVinnie Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ECU tune at this point should show some major gains.

03-04-2006, 07:39 PM	#21
anyotherone Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 330 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: anyotherone Feedback Score: 8 reviews	I finished tailoring my basemap and the car pulls much smoother now. I eliminated the 4k dip and trimmed up the timing... the curve is definately smooth, but the peak numbers aren't much different. Tomorrow or Monday I'm going to finish up the tune and I'll post my results. After that I'm going to install the S13 240/248 combo and see what it looks like. From there I might build an intake pipe with an open filter to see if any intake restriction is holding me back. Since I'm tuning the AEM with the MAP sensor I can completely delete the MAF. I'm curious about intake manifolds and wilder cams, but I'm trying to map out the average 240sx owners options for cheap power in order to help out the community.

03-04-2006, 08:36 PM	#25
*S14DB* AFC #1 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 昨晩あなたのお母さんの家 Posts: 20,181 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Why is it a good idea to disable the knock sensor? __________________ Comments should be taken as Opinions not as Statements of Fact

03-05-2006, 03:51 PM	#26
BigVinnie Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Walnut Crizzle, Crackifornia Age: 46 Posts: 1,266 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: BigVinnie Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Sounds good, I was just asking what octane you were using because (Scott)in geocities had a JWT tune, crank pulley, header and Greddy 3" exhaust. With no cams he pulled 169WHP, and 170ft/lb.s of torque using 104 octane to prevent any knock that would decrease the ignition timing. He also used the stock intake so those were pretty good numbers. If the knock sensor is disabled (closed loop) those same numbers could be achieved on lower octanes, after all the KA's CR is under 9.6:1, I seriously doubt detonation would ocurr with that CR and 96octane. Then there is no interferance with the knock sensor at higher RPMs possibly allowing to achieve those same HP numbers. Of course with some fine tuning of the ignition and fuel maps....... I defenitely wouldn't risk disabling open loop if infact I was running higher CR's that would cause detonation, so in this instance closed loop would not be disabled..... Who said anything about tuning with an AEM $1400? Biki Roms are $300 and follow nissan ECCS developement. AEM EMS is reversed engineering that can sometimes be counterproductive in making BIG HP numbers, IMO many standalones are outdated and expensive once you've been taught ROM emulation, it's just more cost effective, and it SHOULD be affordable for those that just do exhaust tuning, or basic bolt ons, JWT blows. Last edited by BigVinnie; 03-05-2006 at 06:53 PM..

03-05-2006, 10:48 PM	#27
sultan Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Allen, TX Posts: 202 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	i've got a 3" resonated testpipe from my s13 i'm not using, a little scraped on the bottom but will trade for cheap dyno time to see what my almost stock ka is putting down. __________________

03-05-2006, 11:19 PM	#28
anyotherone Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 330 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: anyotherone Feedback Score: 8 reviews	bigvinnie - interesting numbers... but you really can't compare numbers from one dyno to another, or really even one car to another. That dynosheet doesn't prove anything without a baseline on his car for comparison to see how much he actually gained over stock. If bikiROM can be used to tune and it's cheaper, then good deal. What I have to tune with is an AEM EMS. Most guys will be using an SAFC, JWT ecu, or emanage to tune an S14 KA24de. What I said still stands - I'm doing some basic tuning here to begin with. After that, I'll do what I feel neccessary to make the power that I'm shooting for. I'll post the tuned dyno runs tomorrow.

03-06-2006, 11:14 AM	#30
redpotatoes Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Qc Posts: 219 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Looking foward to see the dyno for your cams swap. I currently have the 248/248 setup. I want to try 248/232 and 248/240 this summer. Not sure which one is best but there is only one way to be sure. Keep on posting your dyno sheets and updates. References is always a good thing.