Hispanic Illegal Immigration into the US (PW)

[lowviscosity]

Refer to:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ant_crackdown/
IF you don't now to much about what is going on but I have a rant...

Don't get me wrong I am hispanic, and I think LEGAL immigration is fair and should go un-touched but to protest about ILLEGAL immigration is retarded. I mean really how many americans get arrested for doing illegal things in our country? Cary a sack of weed down the street and I guaranteed you will be arrested but cross a countries border with no ID and then grab a fake ID and start working on someone else's land and not get charged for what you have done, with you knowing in full that it is/was an illegal action.

Go cry to your mom. I understand they do allow for cheap labor and so forth and so on. The fact is we were born here and to immigrate to the country without legal documentation is infact ILLEGAL. They are not refugee's nor are they in dier need. If they want a better life they are more than welcome to go through proper papers and agreements (so forth and so on) to get legalized in our country. Over 11+ million people have come over here illegally, and we have yet to do anything about it.

The guest worker program sounds good but I don't think they should beable to run around the country illegally...

Just wondering what you all think on this subject. I think the bills should be passed and illegal immigration have more of a punishment. Again this is not a racist issue its the fact that it is Illegal to do something. Let me go run into canada's border and run across it without any documentation see what happens to me.. i'm sure its inforced greatly. Sure we have enough room for people.... sorry just had to rant. Again my view is open to this subject.

[OptionZero]

Trying to give rights and protections to illegal immigrants is like trying to fix a leaky roof by putting buckets on the floor.

aix the naturalization process (less corruption) and domestic labor law (certified worker thingies) and immigration should be less of a problem.


Here's the paradox:
-It sounds great to have a "higher minimum wage"- afterall, it helps the lowest levels of society, right? help the poor guys out!

-Everyone wants lower prices and bitch about taxes and shit.

Well, gee...ya can't have both right? If you want to help the little guy out, u can't bitch about paying more for your shit. If you want cheaper shit, then don't bitch about the little people who don't get tons of free benefits

Kinda like how labor unions are pretty redundant and outdated these days or how the people who want universal healthcare but dont want to pay for it

Sadly, most citizens are both lazy and ignorant.

[downshift_sideways]

yea. this is a mojor thing not only in united states but worldwide. I was watching abcnews awhile ago, and in Paris they are having violent protesting. Its no crazy. This will affect all of us, in some way shape or form.

[exitspeed]

I think it's tarded that people that are here illeagally are complaining about their rights. FUCK YOUR RIGHTS! YOU HAVE NON! You came here under illegal cercumstances and expect rights? Next time they protest the police should just start arresting as many as possible and send them back to their country. I know there are millions, but you have to start somewere.

Man this whole thing makes me so angry I can't even express it through text or words!

[downshift_sideways]

i would calm down with that stuff exit speed.. Illegal Immigrants do help society. They basically help the "white man" get the things he want. I belive that mexicans do bust thier ass's landscaping,contruction,roofing, etc etc etc. they work for less money, and on top of that they do a good job. Maybe some immigrant built your house. what would you do? burn it down? i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.

[Irukandji]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.

You have to consider the negative effects of cheap labor. Who would you hire, an American landscaper who charges $100 an hour, or an illegal immigrant who charges $25 an hour and does a decent job?

Well even though cheap labor is more available, it takes business opportunities away from those who cannot work for a lower price. Bigger companies that deal with construction, landscaping etc now are only accepting cash because they end up losing money after taxes, just to compete with illegal immigrants. Well if its a cash transaction, there's no paper trail, and its considered black market economy because the transaction has no effect on the overall GDP. As a result, our economy suffers the consequences. There was a case where an 18 year old american couldn't get a job at a local McDonalds because he wasn't bilingual, and his inability to speak Spanish would impede their business. Now if an American can't get a job in his or her own country due to the fact that an illegal immigrant has taken it away, THAT is the problem.


Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with those who are looking for better opportunities, but I think when it gets to the point where another country is negatively affected, there should be some regulations.

[TheSquidd]

Well. Here's an opinion from someone who's right smack dab in the middle of it. My whole school was pretty much filled with the children of illegal immigrants, the streets are flooded with uninsured drivers, no one speaks english around here and I pretty much find it impossible to find any white people in my area.

Even then, I still think this is America, land of the free. We were founded on immigration. Our forefathers were immigrants. I am totally for immigration.

Put yourselves in their shoes, try living in the slums of Mexico with no way out, for DAMN sure you'd be thinking of a way across that border, illegal or not. It's only illegal because there is a law, not because it is wrong. You know a long long time ago, we used to have the belief that we were the downtrodden country where people could come to, to escape persecution and poverty and make a decent life of their own. Now, we think we're this perfect utopia and we don't want to share it with anyone. WtF?

There are problems with immigration, namely in the retarded socialism we have in this country, where we offer hand outs to everyone and tax the hell out of those of us with a damn job.

I believe this is where the problem really boils down, because there are some DAMN good workers that come across this border and do more for their community and workplace than any of us lazy Americans. But there are those that come across trying to get by for free. They get welfare and pan handle, have no respect for our cities and basically treat our state like a trash can. I think we need to focus more on not rewarding those lazy ones and making it easier on those that really want to work.

I dunno. I'm just some pinche weddo.

[TheSquidd]

Originally Posted by n1sm0r

You have to consider the negative effects of cheap labor.

*snip snip*


Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with those who are looking for better opportunities, but I think when it gets to the point where another country is negatively affected, there should be some regulations.

A. Hah, well okay a kid not getting a job at McDonald's , I mean, really, just go somewhere else and get a job.

B. It's called a free market, if you can't compete with how another company does business (immigrants), then maybe it's time you thought of rethinking your pricing structure. If people thought it was worth it to pay someone 100$ an hour to do some concrete laying or roof work, just because they're white, then they would do it. I don't see why just because someone offers up the same service at a reasonable price, they're wrong.

If you stand by this so strongly, and think it affects your economy so bad, pay that white guy 100$ an hour. Your not going to change anything by whining about it, this country runs on money. As cliche as it sounds, money talks. Whoever the people pay, is who is right.

So unless that company gives me a reason to pay them four times more than the immigrants, OTHER than them just being white, then forget it, I'll take the cheap labor. Perhaps a reach-around or a they install a free pool filled with beer?

If the immigrants weren't "illegal" they'd be citizens, thus taxed and contribute more to the economy. Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.

Once again, I'm just a dumb kid. This is only my opinion as I am no economist.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by TheSquidd

Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.
.

I'm not one to say we should build a wall btw us and mexico, nor do I think all illegal immigrants are evil, but...that above statement goes more to how the border control situation is poorly handled (corrupt and ineffective).

There SHOULD BE stronger control over who enters our borders, but there should also be a fair way to apply for and earn citizenship.

[RiversideS13]

Those illegal immgrants usually fall into the low income portion. Therefore, they are entitled to most of benefits such as medicaid and finicial aids. Some of them pay tax but that was very insignificant and they will get tax return anyway. In conclusion, they are draining our tax money.

also, they are illegal because they are not qualify to be here. there are legal ways which requires more qualifications and it will ensure they will make positive contribution to our society

[downshift_sideways]

Its simply "THE AMERICAN DREAM" to be able to come into this country on terms to better yourself and your life.

Iam mexican-american. and my family did come from mexico to this california, At the time they didnt have the paperwork to show. BUT they managed to convieve me throughout all these years. My Dad got sent back to mexico due to immigration forces. But i am an american. I have the paperwork to show that i was born here. So i strongly agree that illegals comming to U.S. and other countries to better themselfs.

n1smor i agree in what you are saying aswell.

but wheter you guys choose to belive it or not, immigrants come and work for less than the minimum wage. Yes, they get treated like dirt without benifits or medical. BUT they strive to live here, and they do a good job. So i dont understand why people would complain about them comming into out country. HELL some immigrants probally built your house, or in someway throughout time has helped either you or someone you know.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

i would calm down with that stuff exit speed.. Illegal Immigrants do help society. They basically help the "white man" get the things he want. I belive that mexicans do bust thier ass's landscaping,contruction,roofing, etc etc etc. they work for less money, and on top of that they do a good job. Maybe some immigrant built your house. what would you do? burn it down? i wish people would be happy considering the fact that they dont have to pay much to get shit done. and for people like exit speeed need to open thier eyes and realize things have changed within the last decade.

That's BS if you ask me. All these jobs that are done by these people are PERFECTLY GOOD jobs for young people to have. America's young people are getting worse and worse when it comes to working and the illegal immigrants make it more difficult for a kid that does wanna bust his ass and get a job to go out and get one. So with that mess.


And still the bottom line is that their here illegally. BOTTOM LINE. You deserve no rights if you can't come into this country as a law abiding citizen.

[lowviscosity]

No it will not stop them but yet it will stop and make them think... it is too easy for them to get across right now... if they want it so bad make them work for it... but on a serious note I think security should atleast be beefed up. I think there should be enforement on the border. And further more I think if you did something illegal you should be prosecuted for it no matter what, its the only fair way to going about this. If they don't prosecute runners then why should there be people in jail at this moment?

Sure our economy is based on money, but our economy is also based on legallized work. I don't see any main stream crack houses. Why? because we bust anything that gets big. So why let illegal work slip through? A free market is right but if your competing in that market with illegal options then the company is not competing fairly. And again this is not a white-hispanic issue this is just an issue between illegal immigration.

If the immigrants weren't "illegal" they'd be citizens, thus taxed and contribute more to the economy. Making them illegal won't stop them from coming into the country, it just stops us from being able to keep track of them.

Yeah and if cocaine wasn't "illegal" it would be legal too? what is your point here? If smokin' the reefer wasn't "illegal" it would be legal, I don't see what your getting at with that?
And if we can't track them then they don't pay taxes each year. Which that means I should be getting around $5000 more each year because I pay all my taxes.

[mRclARK1]

I agree that illegal immigration needs to be addressed, but I think alot of people are ignorant as to what alot (but not all) of these illegal immigrants are trying to get away from. Many of them come to get a good job that pays them enough to feed and shleter their family and themselves; something hard to get in alot of places in South America and Mexico. The fact is it's hard and VERY time and money consuming to go through an immigration process, and alot of people see illegal means as their only option.

I think what needs to be done is crack down on illegal immigrants, which will encourage use of the legal method. But don't just send illegals home with no help. Advise them on how they can come into the country legally, help them with the paperwork, ease the financial burden a bit, and try to cut down the waiting times.

Originally posted by: lowviscosity
Let me go run into canada's border and run across it without any documentation see what happens to me.. i'm sure its inforced greatly.

Having lived in both the US and Canada; I can tell you that's not true. The US-Canada border has stretches many miles long that are COMPLETELY unwatched by either country. My girlfriend (she's Canadian) was driving to a small town close to the border, she got lost and was pulled over by a state trooper for a bunrt out headlight. He noticed the Canadian license plate and asked where she was headed. She was almost 30 miles across the border and had never noticed she crossed it. He knew how to get to where she was going, gave her directions, and let her go with a laugh and a smile.

[lowviscosity]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

Its simply "THE AMERICAN DREAM" to be able to come into this country on terms to better yourself and your life.

Iam mexican-american. and my family did come from mexico to this california, At the time they didnt have the paperwork to show. BUT they managed to convieve me throughout all these years. My Dad got sent back to mexico due to immigration forces. But i am an american. I have the paperwork to show that i was born here. So i strongly agree that illegals comming to U.S. and other countries to better themselfs.

n1smor i agree in what you are saying aswell.

but wheter you guys choose to belive it or not, immigrants come and work for less than the minimum wage. Yes, they get treated like dirt without benifits or medical. BUT they strive to live here, and they do a good job. So i dont understand why people would complain about them comming into out country. HELL some immigrants probally built your house, or in someway throughout time has helped either you or someone you know.

This is what I am except my parents parents did have papers and did cross legit.
Yes if you are born here you are considered legal, sure they give us cheap labor, sure its under the coat and no one knows or will know. But when will it stop is what the big question is here? Already a number from 11-20 million have entered the US how many more before we enforce the borders and laws of America?
Like someone stated above... thousands of insuranceless immigrants driving in cars, thousands or morre not paying taxes, yes they do qualify for well fair if they happen to fake their way through everything, in which yes its spending someones money. They are hard workers and they do work for less but how far is that going to go?

[lowviscosity]

Originally Posted by mRclARK1

Having lived in both the US and Canada; I can tell you that's not true. The US-Canada border has stretches many miles long that are COMPLETELY unwatched by either country. My girlfriend (she's Canadian) was driving to a small town close to the border, she got lost and was pulled over by a state trooper for a bunrt out headlight. He noticed the Canadian license plate and asked where she was headed. She was almost 30 miles across the border and had never noticed she crossed it. He knew how to get to where she was going, gave her directions, and let her go with a laugh and a smile.

Well I am just saying a country in general sorry I used a bad example... if you go to another country arrive on plain for a vacation they ask if you are their for work or pleasure... if you say work you must provide so much documentation stating why you are there and who you are working for on their soil.

Ha its cool to see this though I didn't think it would bring up much ... but yeah...

[downshift_sideways]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

That's BS if you ask me. All these jobs that are done by these people are PERFECTLY GOOD jobs for young people to have. America's young people are getting worse and worse when it comes to working and the illegal immigrants make it more difficult for a kid that does wanna bust his ass and get a job to go out and get one. So with that mess.


And still the bottom line is that their here illegally. BOTTOM LINE. You deserve no rights if you can't come into this country as a law abiding citizen.

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.

[lowviscosity]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.

This is bullshit... I know many of my friends and so on that are white or Full AMerican that bust their ass laying bricks, foundations, and so on. I busted my ass at Burger King also mowing lawns and so forth when I was younger just for some extra cash. This is pushing younger Americans out of the way for an older non citizen. You see who works at every McDonalds in the country now.... look at fast food resteraunts atleats 10 yrs back and tell me it was the same. I used to see kids working there day in and out but hardly anymore. But like I said we have tons of guys willing to do the work infact I work with many electricians. I think we should start caring for our own before we give our money to an Illegal Immigrant. I have nothing against them but like stated above if I did anything illegal I would be arrested or ticketed... Illegal is Bottom Line.

[chr0nik_sm0k3]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

well its not my fault that americans wanna sit on thier lazy ass and not work. These people are starving for work, they show that they are commited to working hard. maybe if some americans werent so lazy and would have passion to work , then they would get jobs themselfs.

so true. if youre going to complaining about illegals taking the jobs why dont you get off your ass and prove you can work just as hard.

[downshift_sideways]

if you read i was quouting exit speed. he is being very self minded.
Yes i understand jobs are taking up, but these immigrants are so motivated to work, for less than minumum.

Tell me this. If you owned a company and you wanted your company to rocket and you want your supply and demand to increase.

Would you A.
Hire 1 skilled worker

or hire 3 good workers.

the skilled worker would get more pay and benifits.

but the less skilled worker would get smaller pay and less benifits.

this is what companys are doing. its for them to get profit, and to save thier taxes. i dont see why this is wrong? its like budgeting in a way.

would you want those stock alloys? or some 5zigen rims?
they both get you around right? so why not roll with the alloys to save you some money...lols..( i know this is a wack example. but flame me for it!! )

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

if you read i was quouting exit speed. he is being very self minded.

I am and have no problem admitting it on this issue. I am usually very open minded when it comes to alotta issues but this the whole I want rights when i'm here illegally thing just drives me nuts. It's a complete contradiction.

NOW if you are here legally, by ALL MEANS get a job work your ass off and live the American dream. Now I don't think that is as self minded as you think.

[downshift_sideways]

The thing is, they are not getting rights, and they are not demanding rights. There is a work union over by my house, and their are always a group of hispanics waiting to work. I dont see them or anyone in that matter complaning about rights. I think they are fine with what they get.

who is demanding rights?

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: lowviscosity
Well I am just saying a country in general sorry I used a bad example... if you go to another country arrive on plain for a vacation they ask if you are their for work or pleasure... if you say work you must provide so much documentation stating why you are there and who you are working for on their soil.

Ha its cool to see this though I didn't think it would bring up much ... but yeah...

I'm sure that if one of the two countries (Canada or the US) was significantly poorer or had alot lower standard of living than the other, the lax security would not exist. That's what the problem is behind Hispanic illegal immigration, people are trying to come to the US to find work, oppurtunities, and a better life and are willing to come illegally to obtain it. In other words they're desperate.

Originally posted by: n1sm0r
There was a case where an 18 year old american couldn't get a job at a local McDonalds because he wasn't bilingual, and his inability to speak Spanish would impede their business. Now if an American can't get a job in his or her own country due to the fact that an illegal immigrant has taken it away, THAT is the problem.

I completely agree with that. When it begins to affect citizens' attempts to obtain employment, you have a serious problem that needs fixing. Also, when immigrants come to a new country...the immigrant is responsible to learn the language, if it's different, not expect service, in all areas, in his or her native language. While I was in Ecuador and Colombia for awhile...I learned and conversed in Spanish, I didn't expect people to go out of their way to speak to me in English.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by downshift_sideways

The thing is, they are not getting rights, and they are not demanding rights. There is a work union over by my house, and their are always a group of hispanics waiting to work. I dont see them or anyone in that matter complaning about rights. I think they are fine with what they get.

who is demanding rights?

that is what all the marching is about...their rights.

[bik]

as a mexican u guys have to think illegan imigrants never do it cause wanna take advantage of somebody or something, is really pleaople than are starving to dead cause is not jobs here O_o

mostly u can get a job but u dont get enougth money to feed yout family O_o

i live in mexico BTW ¬_¬

[TheWolf]

why not instead of spending hours and hours and thousands and thousands of dollars of tax money trying to figure out how to make immigrants legal or illegal. then enforcing borders and building walls... how about we figure out how to make mexico not suck so much. That should solve the problem. I mean if china can go from red commie backwoods idigent worker to booming economy in 10 years... mexico's got alot going for it...

Then only canada would be left to suck... but they are born that way and I have no problem shooting canadians at the border

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by mRclARK1

I completely agree with that. When it begins to affect citizens' attempts to obtain employment, you have a serious problem that needs fixing. Also, when immigrants come to a new country...the immigrant is responsible to learn the language, if it's different, not expect service, in all areas, in his or her native language. While I was in Ecuador and Colombia for awhile...I learned and conversed in Spanish, I didn't expect people to go out of their way to speak to me in English.

i agree as we'll, and yes i am of hispanic and german descent too so don't try to say its about being racist. it took me a good 3 months after high school of job searching before i even was considered for a job, and in getting that job the only way i got in was because i knew someone in the system. This setting up requirements for people to have to learn a foreign language to get a job is bullshit, you come to America learn to speak english, i know for damn sure if i went to mexico or anywhere else down south of the border i wouldnt expect people to know english you learn to speak the language where you live. i think this whole protest has turned into a big race issue which everybody likes to raise up, the fact of the matter it is for all immigrants trying to enter America illegally, my grandparents on both sides went through the steps to become American citizens LEGALLY and i think that everybody else should do the same, to say they have the right to be here without going through the same process as others is downright blasphemy and it is only a personal view that is cluttering your vision into saying so. The fact of the matter is it effects hispanics the most because they have the most amount of people entering the country, and i can bet the people that were protesting aren't the people that did it the legal way.

[A Spec Products]

Wow, lots of reading.

I skimmed what was above, but after seeing the student walk out at schools around Los Angeles, I was disappointed that its having an impact like that.

While I'm not well enough informed to tell if the walk out was justified, I don't think it was reason enough for kids to leave school over it. I mean the kids were walking on the FREEWAYS for god sakes. I think it's great that the kids take a stand and unite together, but the walk out yesterday was not the best way to reflect well.

And yes, my grandparents went through the legit immigration process, so do I think everyone else should do the same? Yes, of course. Will it ever actually happen? No way.

I personally am wary of the impact that the guest worker idea will have on the future of America.

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: TheWolf
Then only canada would be left to suck... but they are born that way and I have no problem shooting canadians at the border

I'm Canadian...and proud of it. I'm also American...and proud of it.

If it's just a joke then ignore this; but I don't see how you can say Canada sucks considering it is almost identical to America. I've lived in both...there is VERY little difference culturally, morally, economically, traditionally and pretty much any other way. Saying a whole nation "sucks" and it's people are "born that way" is just plain ignorant. I could say more but I'll leave it at that.

Also, contrary to populat belief...there are ALOT of guns in Canada. And most Canadians I know (myself included) are dangerously good shots.
So good luck to you shooting Canadians at the border...If they shoot back, I don't think you'll last to long.

[yudalicious]

It's a tough issue, but I think if you illegally cross the border then you probably shouldn't expect many rights. Keep in mind mexican people aren't the only people in the world starving, mexico just happens to share a very big border with the us. It is better to get to the root of the problem (fix the situation in mexico) than to provide a band aid solution (laws against illegal immigrants).