SR Owners... More HP Easy Mod... Catch Can Setup

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by benson93

'slider' thanks for you quick reply mate,
So no holes or anything is needed to be drilled in the baffling under the old 't' just change to one port ?
And placment for the new bung at back would be in the center of the area you have marked with red dots yea? Just that i have allready shaved my letters of and painted my cover so no real reference from top.
Thanks again very good site with lots of info.

Sure I am glad to help. No drilling into the baffle under the original T.

Placement of the top bung should be above the drilling holes I have marked in red.

Originally Posted by HIGHFIVEBETA

Would this be beneficial to S14 SR as well? Where the fitting was welded on the flat top cover, the S14 cover already has a drain which goes to the crankcase i assume. Where the T fitting is for S14 it goes directly to the turbo intake after MAF.

So just to get it stright is this how you routed your system slider2828?

For slant top valve covers, its useless.... So S14SR's valve covers, this mod won't help, because the S14SR's already have a scavenging type system. Yup your diagram is correct

[LuckyX2]

This thread has gotten me thinking about catch cans and what I personally want from one.

Goals:
-Scavenge gasses off of the valve cover and crank using the intake as a vacuum source
-Let little to no oil into the intake
-Recirculate the oil from the valve cover and crank (I don't want to worry about a catch can filling up...)

Here's what I came up with that I believe will meet these goals.
The view of the separator is cross-sectional btw.


Oil should flow with gravity back down to the crank while gasses are suctioned off from the valve cover and crank through the intake port. Think of it like the stock oil/air separator but with a third fitting for the intake instead of at the T where the intake will suck in oil.

Thoughts?

[slider2828]

I like the idea, but where is the crank case going to get suction from?

In a sealed/scavenged environment, you want to create suction from the crank case under boost.... Then allow your system to scavenge when there is excess pulled up from the crank case to flow back down.....

With the system design by Luke and I, it just makes things easier... I use a greddy catch, which is a fucking useless catch can except that its sealed.... There are other ones with an actually baffle which would help a lot more.

The below from Evolution.Net is pretty good.... A function nice catch can.... Wish it was bigger though and after its done, I would probably silicon the sides to make sure EVERYTHING is air tight.....

How To: Another DIY Catch Can mod - Dual, with baffles and extended inlet tube - evolutionm.net

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I like the idea, but where is the crank case going to get suction from?

Both the valve cover and crankcase attach to the "box" which has suction from the intake. In this way both the crank and valve cover see the suction of the intake.
I tried to show this with the "air flow" arrows.

And that's a crazy catch can setup haha. I'm more of a K.I.S.S. guy myself but I appreciate the work put into that.

[di-devol]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I like the idea, but where is the crank case going to get suction from?

In a sealed/scavenged environment, you want to create suction from the crank case under boost.... Then allow your system to scavenge when there is excess pulled up from the crank case to flow back down.....

With the system design by Luke and I, it just makes things easier... I use a greddy catch, which is a fucking useless catch can except that its sealed.... There are other ones with an actually baffle which would help a lot more.

The below from Evolution.Net is pretty good.... A function nice catch can.... Wish it was bigger though and after its done, I would probably silicon the sides to make sure EVERYTHING is air tight.....

How To: Another DIY Catch Can mod - Dual, with baffles and extended inlet tube - evolutionm.net

That extended inlet tube, god dam what an idea, I just baffled my Greddy can, time to take it apart again. Thanks for that pic.

[LuckyX2]

Originally Posted by di-devol

That extended inlet tube, god dam what an idea, I just baffled my Greddy can, time to take it apart again. Thanks for that pic.

I don't understand why he went through the trouble of drilling the pipe and putting the steel wool around it. Is it not sufficient just to have the long tube? That alone would stop oil from getting sucked back out the other fitting, right?

And that wool dramatically reduces the holding capacity...

[di-devol]

For me, I've been having trouble with keeping the oil in the god dam can. I added some baffle, still coming up, added steel wool and some more baffle, still getting in the intake.

I'm going to leave the stuff in there, tired of it, even with the extended tube, maybe he had the same thought lol.

[AsleepAltima]

im still running the stock baffle and i dont have any oil in my lines.

[TheRealSy90]

I dont even run a catch can. Never had blow by on my sr. Front on the t just has a filter.

[Breitling]

My catch and overflow setup. Vented to Atmo.

[cotbu]

ok fella's, in a perfect world with a good working engine(system) the blow by gasses are just that! Gas or air or oily air .etc! So a filter in the system is a no no! (Not saying it won't work for you, just not ideal.) So anyway, if you are spitting out oil... liquid oil, then your system could really benefit from the mod luke and slider2828 came up with. The pro's are less oil in catch can, faster rotating assembly and probably more power! Con's I haven't seen any from the systems I modified with their information.

Why I think it works: The rear fitting that leads to the catch can is on top of the valve cover, and in a low pressure location, the liquid oil has to travel up and out of the valve cover, fighting gravity. This alone equal less oil in catch can, vs the side exit of the stock configuration The small holes, if drilled correctly allow the oil to drain away from the area quickly. It's a really a good design. I think you understand a lil better now!

di-devol Take the T and turn the fitting 85deg or 11 and 5 o'clock see if you have less oil in your catch can after a few hard pulls and or some cornering.

My system is working really good, I do get a few drops from my catch can hose. The can itself has about a 4-5mm layer of sludge in it, I check it every other oil change and it is getting higher. I'm not currently running this mod myself, but it's one of those things that does work. so why not?

[TheRealSy90]

And what if it doesnt spit out oil?

[di-devol]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

And what if it doesnt spit out oil?

I dunno, all I know is I got like 4k on this built motor. I beat the fucking piss outta it when drifting. I pulled about a tablespoon or two from the catch can after 12-15 runs.

Dunno why it does it, everything is great, good compression, great power. All I know is following some of these steps to just help get the oil from going into the intake tract, them I'm happy haha.

[cotbu]

If your system doesn't spit out oil? You are probably a conservative driver and probably get 28-30mpg! j/k

Connect the Front of the T to the intake! if you don't spit out liquid oil or vapor, you pipes won't be oily and octane level will not be compromised. The OEM routing would suit you best!

You're running a filter on the front of the Valve cover T. You can benefit from a regular catch can setup and also the Luke and slider2828 mod. There is probably something wrong with your system because the design is flawed and allows oil and air to pass by the T regardless of engine wear, age or usage. So if that filter is not nasty and you don't change it ever other oil change. Something is wrong. Oily air would quickly clog that filter, if the car is driven with any kind of passion!

So if you don't spit out liquid oil from the valve cover T, you still want to create a negative pressure situation in the crank case. That's were the More HP in the mod title comes from.

If you have oil pressure and the cams are flinging oil all over the place, that big hole in the front of the engine, chains, cam gears, rocker arms and springs going crazy. Why do you thing there should be no oil at the valve cover T

With a filter in the system we just say, your system is not setup correctly.

[slider2828]

Beating the piss out of the car in the straight line doesn't do anything LOL.... In competitive drifting and tracking... SUSTAINED G's are what causes the oil to spit out of the crankcase..... Occasional 2-3 corners is nothing, we talking run after run after run, 20 minutes to 40 minutes of sustained track use at 5500 RPM or above.....

This is just a nice mod for people... If your catch currently works, no biggy.... But some people no longer have the luxury to use the stock black air/oil separator cause of an aftermarket intake manifold. Regardless, I just hope this helps some people out....

Easy and cheap mod I think....

[di-devol]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Beating the piss out of the car in the straight line doesn't do anything LOL.... In competitive drifting and tracking... SUSTAINED G's are what causes the oil to spit out of the crankcase..... Occasional 2-3 corners is nothing, we talking run after run after run, 20 minutes to 40 minutes of sustained track use at 5500 RPM or above.....

This is just a nice mod for people... If your catch currently works, no biggy.... But some people no longer have the luxury to use the stock black air/oil separator cause of an aftermarket intake manifold. Regardless, I just hope this helps some people out....

Easy and cheap mod I think....

TO add to this, I get no oil in the can just driving to work etc, this is my daily as well haha. But drifting on the track, I get oil

[cotbu]

I've witnessed a catch can fill, after a few quarter mile runs. I really don't know what else to say about that, but this mod cured that situation for him.

That little brass fitting stops the oil from shooting across the T. I have no liquid oil in my catch can after drifting. I can literally watch the oil condense in my hoses after a session.

[benson93]

Just got the cover off and was concerned about where the swarf from the drilling is going and how to ensure it is cleared? Maybe cotbu or slider who has done this could help me out, as not sure if the mesh baffeling goes all the way down to where the nww bung will be etc? Any info asap would be great as keen to get a good run on it tonight, track day coming up.

[benson93]

Just drilled the holes for the cover, will post pics up asap, the small ones in the baffel don't line up with the main bung as such, if i were to drill the main bung directly above where 'slider' had the 1/8th holes markes it would'nt line up with his in the pictures (a little back from the last spark plug hole)
So is it a problem if the small holes are not directly under the top bung? Or is it better them be slightly off ?
Sorry for all questions but would like to know for sure.
Thanks again peoples.

[slider2828]

Sorry, I don't have the exact pictures, its like a 2 year old thread, so its been awhile.... be directly under is the best....

Just drill it relatively slowly with a sharp drill bit. The shards should come off pretty cleanly and its pretty thin, so you are good....

But yeah under is best.....

[cotbu]

The tools I use are, sharpie, punch, cam lube and drill bit. None of my drill bit are that sharp. The lube catches those little shavings, the other stuff travels up the flutes.

[LuckyX2]

So no more thoughts about my setup?

slider2828, what about you now that you know it scavenges the crank too?

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

So no more thoughts about my setup?

slider2828, what about you now that you know it scavenges the crank too?

Your system seems fine with me.... you are more designing the catch..... Everything else works the same, so I don't have any additional input....

I was thinking about the scavenging system.... I haven't thought about it too much as I haven't had time. I think scavenging back to the crank would be nice.

I think having oil go back to the oil pan is nice idea as I it shouldn't have position pressure at any time unless you have busted rings that will cause pressure in the crank case and pan and causing it to blow oil back into your can....

So I am on the fence about scavenging back to the pan for those just in case moments.

When I cracked my ring landing on my 1st motor, the dipstick blew oil everywhere.... I don't want it to do the same with a catch can.... thats all I am saying, but I don't see why not.

[LuckyX2]

Yeah, it's basically a catch can that's sealed, under vacuum and drains back into the crankcase.

I wanted to keep it as close to the OEM setup but not suck oil into the intake.
If you think about it, it's really doing the same thing as the crank->separator->T->intake setup that's stock but mine won't suck oil into the intake so long as I baffle it correctly inside.

Hopefully I'll get time to weld it up in the coming weeks and try it out at a few autocrosses. I'll throw a clear hose on it temporarily and post the results.

[slider2828]

Sure.... you if it is long enough..... at least have a good 1.5"..... I dun remember that thing between that long..... There is a pressure so don't forget.

[LuckyX2]

Another issue is that you won't have a ridge at the end for the hose to grab onto, leaving it prone to sliding off.

Should work though if you clean the tube well with a good solvent to get some grip and clamp the shit out of it.

[benson93]

***UPDATE***
Done this mod last week ready for my next track day on Saturday just gone, in the previous rounds I was getting 450ml of oil in my catch can after the days racing aprox 25 laps. With a less than 10% leak down and good compression test.

Very happy to say on Saturday after the days racing with this mod no oil at all in my catch can 30 laps and even went across to the drags for 5 runs still no oil. 12.5 @ 115 (track rubber and setup)

So big thumbs up to the pair (Blu808 & slider2828) for sharing this mod

[hOngsterr]

hey what hoses do you guys use that can stand the heat, heater hoses that are used for coolant? or would PS hoses work, fuel wont work, they become hard and brittle.

Also, benson, from looking at your pics, you didnt need to weld? And the best way to get metered air is from the maf piping?

[slider2828]

Awesome Benson!!! Thanks for sharing.... Yeah it works for sure and its nice its scavenging the oil into the head....

I've gone about 4 hours of road tracking and have droplets before, so I would still check it from time to time, but yes it greatly reduces those how much oil is spit out on the S13.

@hOngsterr. That orange oil line has a high temp (2000 F) shield on it. That barrier for lines you can get from like a summit racing and stuff....

[hOngsterr]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Ok... pics will be up one day late.... cause I was just too tired while putting on the valve cover and intake stuff back in. Was testing the setup for best results.....

So far with nothing changed except welding bung for pulling in vacuum from the catch can....

So here is a brief description of the setup....

First Phase
Blu808 welded a 90* AN fitting to the top of the valve cover and replaced the T with a 90* AN fitting as well. The AN fitting on top of the valve cover is right next to the words TWIN CAM 16VALVE right next to the "E". We modified the baffling in the valve cover to allow it to "breath" easier and suck gases from the blowby better. So from the crankcase, it goes directly into the 90* fitting that used to be the T. Then from the top of the valve cover 90* it is piped down into the catch can and the catch can to open air. Just this mod eliminated blowby and any oil into my catch can on the track. I had 0 drop of oil in the whole track section and the car felt good....

Second Phase
We finished it last night, because my Alu pipe from PipingPro didn't have a recirculate bung (BOV is circulated though), cause I didn't ask for it for the valve cover, we had to remove it and weld a bung. So now instead of having the open air side of the catch just open to atmosphere, we basically piped it back into the intake now, so the catch is a completely closed system. This part is tricky, because right now at idle it pulls about .6 more PSI at idle based on my Profec-E01 Digital gauge and idles a little higher around 100 RPM higher. From my experiences this messes with the boost settings a little when the base PSI changes a little. It is immediately noticeable that start-up is much easier and reduction in cold start RPM fluctuations which I was getting is basically gone. Now I can't tell too much yet as I haven't really driven on it except to work which is a traffic commute but when I get off work, I can drive it with a little more open road and fix my idle a little more.

Like I said pics up tonight.... But you get the idea

Originally Posted by blu808

Well for the pricing. I wouldn't consider this a huge "money maker" so I will do it for a really reasonable price. Say. The cost of the fittings, and like $75 for the tig welding, oil baffle modification, and prep. I can also have the valve cover powder coated or polished.

Basically here is what you would be getting.

1 -8 A/N fitting (male/compression) welded to where the stock T fitting goes.
1 -8 A/N fitting (male/compression) welded on top of the valve cover.
Oil baffle modification
Prep for welding

We can also supply you with either A/N fittings and stainless lines. Or A/N push lock nipples.

Let me know who wants to do this.

Luke

Originally Posted by slider2828

In stock form yes... With this mod no.....

It doesn't have a restrictor on the hose does it? I am not aware there was a restrictor on it... Can you take a pic.....

So in your case crank to AO separator, to T to Catch to intake..... But its not promised your catch with G's and full boost depending on turbo will fill it up.... as this is the way I had it up before....

With this mod from Luke you won't fill it up.

Here's a pic.... sorry about the quality, but from my camera phone.... Didn't have time to clean things up either, but trust me Luke's product will look good!

Originally Posted by slider2828

More pics of setup

Originally Posted by blu808

Took the valve cover.


Then tig welded a -8 fitting on the rear of the valve cover, and a -10 onto the stock location.


Then fitted a -8 fitting on the filter base, and attached the fittings onto the catch can.


Then started to make the lines.


The -10 male fitting in the stock location has a 90 deg -10 push lock fitting attached. Then -10 push lock hose goes from there down to the oem crank case breather tube.


The -8 that is welded onto the top of the valve cover attaches to a -8 90deg fitting that attaches via stainless line to the catch can.


I have also modified the baffling on the inside of the valve cover, and will try and get some pics tomorrow.

Let me know what you guys think.

Originally Posted by slider2828

Damn I straight hate taking off that damn valve cover....

6 holes under the top breather, I think luke use d 1/8" drill bit and drilled 6 holes just spaced evenly about 1/8" apart in a honeycome cluster in the baffle..... Someone can take a picture and I can point you guys along...

-Ken

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Originally Posted by slider2828

First step remove the T:

Hold down the valve cover

Heat up the area on the VALVE COVER around the T to expand the metal around it. Don't heat the T itself, else defeats the purpose.

Vice grip the T and in a twisting motion slow yank it out. Its NOT screw on, it was just pressed in by the factory.

For fittings we just use earls twist lock and just get something that is about the diameter of the T.

Second Step, drilling the valve cover:
Use the picture attached. I think we used a 1/8" inch drill bit an drilled 10 holes... Under the area in red... Just space them out....


Now you can really see that the S13 does have some baffling before the output into the old T....

Originally Posted by HIGHFIVEBETA

Would this be beneficial to S14 SR as well? Where the fitting was welded on the flat top cover, the S14 cover already has a drain which goes to the crankcase i assume. Where the T fitting is for S14 it goes directly to the turbo intake after MAF.

So just to get it stright is this how you routed your system slider2828?

everything summed up for the lazy fools, if you want to know technical, then you gotta read the pages lol.