Zilvia Gun Thread

[speedgod^s13]

Originally Posted by kyles1988

Well the current thinking is that you shouldn't release the slide with the slide lock as it will wear over time and eventually not do what it was designed for: catching the slide and locking it open on the last shot. Several manufacturer's have come out over the last few years and said that the slide should only be dropped by racking it. If you notice the grip grooves on the slide lock lever are facing up, meaning that your thumb is supposed to grip them with upward force (like when you were locking the slide open to hand the pistol to someone else)

The grip grooves on the Glock, are sideways front to back though.

So, I went to the range today, and I HATE the way the Glock feels. Most likely, it's because I have small hands, but I love the way the M&P, and XD feel. The stock Glock sights are better than my XD though. The M&P .22, is freaking awesome! Shoots well, feels great in my hand, and the ammo is cheap! So, I posted my Glock for sale, so that I can either get an M&P, or XD in .45. I'm also planning on getting an M&P 15.22 rifle, since I shot my friends one, and was surprised at how fun it was.

[dtfdanyo]

Originally Posted by TitanRb25

So brand ammo do you all trust to go into your firearms? Do you recommend one more than another?

Only handgun I own at the moment is the Springfield XdM .45 acp.

Range: Blazer Centerfire

Home protection: Hornady Tap Fpd

This is for my Glock 17

Range - Winchester white box or Federal FMJ

Home defense: Speer Gold dot 124gr

[silvia-junkie]

Found this video fascinating. Warning a little graphic at times.

9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot Wounds - YouTube

An other interesting one.

9mm vs .45---AGAIN!!! by Gomez-Training.com - YouTube

[TitanRb25]

That first video is awesome!!!!!!!!!

[raz0rbladez909]

My father told me this would be mine when I was older, and now that I'm older he gave it to me. It's a Browning High Power that he used when he was in the military. Needs some work, but I plan on restoring it to its original coloring and getting things changed on it like the front sight needs to be fixed as it wobbles.

And my current AR and my wifes soon to be built AR.

[kyles1988]

I love Hi-Powers

[VNG704]

Just want to say something about these 9mm vs 45auto vs etc videos. Sure the wound cavity are similar in size but the actual knock down power of a 9 is not close to a 45.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by VNG704

Just want to say something about these 9mm vs 45auto vs etc videos. Sure the wound cavity are similar in size but the actual knock down power of a 9 is not close to a 45.

The idea of "knock down" is a fallacy. No bullet is going to "knock" someone down.



Its all about mass and velocity. The problem with a cary weapon used in close quarters is over penetration, weight and size of the weapon.


As a duty weapon, something I would use to engage at a threat at some distance, in an offensive manner or for an extended amount of time - I'd rather have the double capacity of the 9mm, not to mention the better range and less drop.

As a self-defense, like I'm getting jumped in a public restroom, or I have an attacker wielding a hand weapon - I don't need the range or double capacity and the slimmer profile of the 1911 will be superior for a cary weapon.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by VNG704

Just want to say something about these 9mm vs 45auto vs etc videos. Sure the wound cavity are similar in size but the actual knock down power of a 9 is not close to a 45.

WTF is knock down power?

[kyles1988]

If you watch the first video silvia-junkie posted the guy explains that the force of getting hit with a 9mm is like having a 10 pound weight dropped 3/4 of an inch on the impacted area. Even if a .45 has twice the energy, it's still not going to pick up a bad guy and set him down across the room

[VNG704]

@s14db, knock down, take down, stopping power, kill power, whatever you want to call it, caliber matters.

It doesn't have to be "across the room," that's a little exaggerate. Putting the bad guy down where he stood is good enough for me. Not that I feel a smaller caliber isn't good, I have a 9mm too. It's easier to carry for me, I don't even carry the .45. Just saying is all. With a semi auto 9, 380, or heck, a 22, if the first shot doesn't take 'em down, the next two or three should, given good shot placement. I also understand that many small holes will have a better chance to stop vs one or two big holes. Not to mention the differences in jhp(I could say more material to spread?), fmj, soft point, a gun that will actually work every time, training, etc... But, and I know some of you may get me for this, I hunt deer with a .308 and not a .22. Not that a .22 couldn't kill a deer, but the .308 will have a better chance. If I hunt bear or whatever bigger animal, I will not use any of the smaller calibers. For whatever reason that I don't have the facts/research for, size of the caliber matters. Not because I say so but because it's proven in the field.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by VNG704

@s14db, knock down, take down, stopping power, kill power, whatever you want to call it, caliber matters.

It doesn't have to be "across the room," that's a little exaggerate. Putting the bad guy down where he stood is good enough for me. Not that I feel a smaller caliber isn't good, I have a 9mm too. It's easier to carry for me, I don't even carry the .45. Just saying is all. With a semi auto 9, 380, or heck, a 22, if the first shot doesn't take 'em down, the next two or three should, given good shot placement. I also understand that many small holes will have a better chance to stop vs one or two big holes. Not to mention the differences in jhp(I could say more material to spread?), fmj, soft point, a gun that will actually work every time, training, etc... But, and I know some of you may get me for this, I hunt deer with a .308 and not a .22. Not that a .22 couldn't kill a deer, but the .308 will have a better chance. If I hunt bear or whatever bigger animal, I will not use any of the smaller calibers. For whatever reason that I don't have the facts/research for, size of the caliber matters. Not because I say so but because it's proven in the field.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Seriously, watch the video. The guy is not a gun-nut trying to swing an agenda that is relying on "years of carrying and shooting". He's the surgeon that has spent years in an OR putting people back together after gunshots. He knows better than any LEO, Owner or Internet-Tough guy what "works" and what "Doesn't" work.

[VNG704]

Originally Posted by Corbic

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Seriously, watch the video. The guy is not a gun-nut trying to swing an agenda that is relying on "years of carrying and shooting". He's the surgeon that has spent years in an OR putting people back together after gunshots. He knows better than any LEO, Owner or Internet-Tough guy what "works" and what "Doesn't" work.

Lol, he says himself multiple times, bigger ammo bigger damage(not verbatim). To say I know nothing on the subject is extreme.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by VNG704

Lol, he says himself multiple times, bigger ammo bigger damage(not verbatim). To say I know nothing on the subject is extreme.

No, he says a larger diameter bullet has that much more chance of doing vascular damage based on the smaller diameter could potentially miss a critical artery by a tenth of a millimeter.

He also clearly shows that your assertion that "hollow points" will cause more damage because of the bigger spread is not necessarily true. The mushrooming causes them to slow and not penetrate. In the X-ray a 9mm would have clearly killed that individual as the bullet would have pierced his primary arteries and heart. The .45 hollow point became lodged just past the sternum.

Either way, there is no such thing as "knock down" power. It's all about velocity, he says this time and time again. Rifle Cartridges with nearly 3-4 times the velocity is not going to leave much for a surgeon to do. Pistol cartridges typically only leave 1 in 7 dead and the victim is often conscious, alert and moving around when paramedics arrive on the scene. They die from bleeding out, not massive tissue trauma and being hit with "stopping power".

[VNG704]

QUOTE=Corbic;4992176]No, he says a larger diameter bullet has that much more chance of doing vascular damage based on the smaller diameter could potentially miss a critical artery by a tenth of a millimeter.

How is that making my statement false? That's actually backing up what I said. He did say that, but he didn't say that was the only advantage of a larger caliber. You're taking that one statement as absolute.

He also clearly shows that your assertion that "hollow points" will cause more damage because of the bigger spread is not necessarily true. The mushrooming causes them to slow and not penetrate. In the X-ray a 9mm would have clearly killed that individual as the bullet would have pierced his primary arteries and heart. The .45 hollow point became lodged just past the sternum.

"Not necessarily true" doesn't make it false. Does not have to exit to kill or stop someone. You can bleed from one hole so I'm not sure why you stated that. iirc, the .45 passed through his lung and stopped by the sternum. I'm sure someone with a punctured lung would stop, drop, and maybe roll(joke). Oh, and it penetrates, maybe not always exit, but it will penetrate. Statistics aren't everything. He could be alive only because he was saved by medics, effecting these statistics.

Either way, there is no such thing as "knock down" power. It's all about velocity, he says this time and time again. Rifle Cartridges with nearly 3-4 times the velocity is not going to leave much for a surgeon to do. Pistol cartridges typically only leave 1 in 7 dead and the victim is often conscious, alert and moving around when paramedics arrive on the scene. They die from bleeding out, not massive tissue trauma and being hit with "stopping power".

There is such a thing as knock down power. Maybe not in a sense that you're qouting it like it's something official but there is such a power or force or killing capacity (whatever the term is) based on caliber size. Larger calibers are more likely to stop... a bad guy. Your velocity assertion. It is not "all about velocity," as you say. One observation, the larger calibers' velocity are lower than their smaller counterparts, 45 vs 9, 308 vs 223. Ofcourse a 308 will have more velocity than a 9. He also stated the velocity of a 223 is too high in that it's damaging process doesn't even happen until it passes the human body and why the military are looking into "larger" caliber ammo, which would have a lesser velocity. I guess it depends on which way you're looking at velocity. I think you mean that it's all about the energy, which we see in this vid, that the larger calibers put out more energy.[/QUOTE]

[bc.]

If there was a thing called "knock down power" there would be a way to measure it. Ask yourself how you would measure it.

Seems to me if you want "knock down power" take any bullet size and aim for the head, "knock down" in one shot.

[TitanRb25]

Knock down power seems to be a term misused. Stopping power I can see someone stating, but knock down power?? The only bullet I can see knocking someone off of their feet is maybe a .50 cal, and even then I see it doing more penetrating damage than "knocking down" a foe.

[240sxScores]

Originally Posted by TitanRb25

Knock down power seems to be a term misused. Stopping power I can see someone stating, but knock down power?? The only bullet I can see knocking someone off of their feet is maybe a .50 cal, and even then I see it doing more penetrating damage than "knocking down" a foe.

Probably not knock them down more than it would blow them into pieces.

From S3

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by VNG704

@s14db, knock down, take down, stopping power, kill power, whatever you want to call it, caliber matters.

It doesn't have to be "across the room," that's a little exaggerate. Putting the bad guy down where he stood is good enough for me. Not that I feel a smaller caliber isn't good, I have a 9mm too. It's easier to carry for me, I don't even carry the .45. Just saying is all. With a semi auto 9, 380, or heck, a 22, if the first shot doesn't take 'em down, the next two or three should, given good shot placement. I also understand that many small holes will have a better chance to stop vs one or two big holes. Not to mention the differences in jhp(I could say more material to spread?), fmj, soft point, a gun that will actually work every time, training, etc... But, and I know some of you may get me for this, I hunt deer with a .308 and not a .22. Not that a .22 couldn't kill a deer, but the .308 will have a better chance. If I hunt bear or whatever bigger animal, I will not use any of the smaller calibers. For whatever reason that I don't have the facts/research for, size of the caliber matters. Not because I say so but because it's proven in the field.

Only thing that is proven is Terminal Ballistics. Stopping Power and Knock Down Power is all made up BS. It's simple physics, Weight(mass) and Speed(Velocity). You guys got the weight part down but not the speed.

Oh, lets do 5.56×45mm(.223) vs. 7.62×39mm(AK) next!
Terminal ballistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess it comes down to Horsepower vs Torque...

Anyone try or own the MKA 1919?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Anyone try or own the MKA 1919?

I had to google it.






I'd rather just get one of these.

[midnightouge]

I'd chose the saiga 12 anyday but this thing is awesome.

Uts 15

[Corbic]

It looks soooo cool... but the demo left me going "meh".



+ Bad Ass
+ Turkish Based
+ Innovative
+ Built in Light
+ 15rd Capacity

- Pump only
- complicated loading system
- $1,200

[S14DB]

Rather have a Kel-Tec KSG over that knockoff. Alternating tube loading eliminates the ability to carry 2 different loads at once and switch between.

But, Barrel climb is non resistant on it...



Note: The presenter is a total idiot and I am surprised he hasn't shot himself. Was the only video I found with both.

[BOROSUN]

i like the ksg too. especially with the grip.

[kyles1988]

I prefer the VERP12

[Trap Star]

My Taurus PT-940. Its a bit flashy but I'm not out to be stealthy and sneak up on people. Just have it to go to the range once in a while. I'm also legally required by the city of Kennesaw to have a gun in my house (not joking). 180 grain hollow points all day. I've got a 410 shotgun as well but I can't find any pics of it.

[LA Kings]

after 4 years in the military and countless rifles/shotguns, i purchased my first handgun 9 days ago. Got a Smith & Wesson Sigma SW40VE w/3 magazines for $270. i get to pick it up tomorrow

[silvia-junkie]

Originally Posted by Corbic

It looks soooo cool... but the demo left me going "meh".



+ Bad Ass
+ Turkish Based
+ Innovative
+ Built in Light
+ 15rd Capacity

- Pump only
- complicated loading system
- $1,200

Looks really cool. Easy loading, looked awkward to start the shell then push it in with your index finger. I guess that's a training issue. Do you know if it needs both tubes full to operate?

[gist864]

I am looking into getting a saiga 12 what are y'all thoughts

[Corbic]

Epic awesome, just expensive to feed.

Out if all the fancy auto-shotguns it's probably the most reliable and easiest to maintain. Check out KVAR they got some rocking deals.