The Future Automotive Thread

[Gnnr]

Wow, that looks way better.

[WILDACEX187]

wat u guys are drawing looks alot like a g35.

[Daniel.]

Laguna seca blue anyone?

[silviaguy240]

im really not a fan of that color, but there it looks good.

[exitspeed]

Lexus Australia's chief executive, John Roca spilled the beans on some of Lexus' future plans. What is most intriguing to our community, is the fact that they are planning a competitor to the BMW 1 Series. Slotted below the IS. Sounds good to me. I'd much rather have a Lexus in that price range then a Beemer.

My prediction would be that it will be on the same platform as the new Toyota and Subaru RWD/AWD sport coupes.

So we're looking at topping out at say 300hp, probably around the 3000lp range, but I think it'll just be a NA affair unlike the 1. Price from...$25k-$35k. Estimate.

[Dutchmalmiss]

^ Sounds like it's going to be a Lexus equivalent to the new "ae86," like what the ES is to the Camry. That means, the new "ae86" should be in the ~$19-20k range. Sounds good to me.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

^ Sounds like it's going to be a Lexus equivalent to the new "ae86," like what the ES is to the Camry. That means, the new "ae86" should be in the ~$19-20k range. Sounds good to me.

Yep that would be my guess. That means they can spread the new platform around to 3 vehicles which will make a lot more sense.

I'm expecting Nissan to do the same with the new 240/Silvia Chassis ie Infinity variant. I'm also predicting a small Infinity Sedan on the same platform ala G20.

I think this will be the year we start seeing this stuff all come together.

[WILDACEX187]

aww man i like the fact that infiniti doesnt have any more fwd cars anymore. hope the new smaller sedan remains rwd

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by WILDACEX187

aww man i like the fact that infiniti doesnt have any more fwd cars anymore. hope the new smaller sedan remains rwd

Yea, I should have specified better. I meant G20 size wise, not FWD. So on the new smaller RWD platform they could have, 250/Silvia, G25 coupe and sedan. I would say Nissan has room for a smaller RWD sedan, but unless it's real niche (510-esque), I don't think most consumers would see a big difference between that and a Sentra.

[jackjack]

damn. those chops look good.

[WILDACEX187]

on the real if they release a rwd small infinit sedan i would rock it as a daily. i own a g20 now and wish to god it was rwd lol

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by WILDACEX187

on the real if they release a rwd small infinit sedan i would rock it as a daily. i own a g20 now and wish to god it was rwd lol

I think of that myself. As much as I'd love a new coupe from Nissan, I think a small RWD sedan would be even more appealing.

[Yuri]

I was looking really forward to all these affordable RWD cars coming out.

But then I realized you can buy a Viper GTS for under $30k right now, and this has me looking at all sorts of alternatives.
Such as $20k E46 M3's.

The used market is going to be as exciting as the new car market is.
It's going to be a great time for enthusiasts.

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I was looking really forward to all these affordable RWD cars coming out.

But then I realized you can buy a Viper GTS for under $30k right now, and this has me looking at all sorts of alternatives.
Such as $20k E46 M3's.

The used market is going to be as exciting as the new car market is.
It's going to be a great time for enthusiasts.

It's gonna be an all you can rape buffet on used chassis.

[WILDACEX187]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I think of that myself. As much as I'd love a new coupe from Nissan, I think a small RWD sedan would be even more appealing.

im in the same boat. that way i can keep my coupe

[exitspeed]

AutoObserver is saying the RWD Toyota coupe will use Subaru's 2.0 Boxer engine.

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I was looking really forward to all these affordable RWD cars coming out.

But then I realized you can buy a Viper GTS for under $30k right now, and this has me looking at all sorts of alternatives.
Such as $20k E46 M3's.

The used market is going to be as exciting as the new car market is.
It's going to be a great time for enthusiasts.

you can get C5 z06's for around 22k now too.

[Gnnr]

I don't see any of that happening, and usually I'm optimistic.

Lexus IS250
2.5L V6
204 hp/185 tq
Curb Weight: 3455 lbs.
Base MSRP: $30,555

BMW 1 128i
3.0L Inline 6
230 hp/200 tq
Curb Weight: 3494 lbs.
Base MSRP: $33,100

Why would they need another car in the Lexus lineup to compete with the 1 series? The IS is already a direct competitor. The price is cheaper than the 128i. Maybe they can bump the power some if they want to, which wouldn't be too hard to do, and will probably happen for the next model year. The 128i is heavier and it has 2 less doors. Maybe they'll just make a coupe IS, same engine choices though. Thats about all I see happening.

Infiniti- If they come up with a new addition to the G line, what engine will they use? Hell, what platform? The original G20 was the Primera (unfortunately they didn't bring the AWD version). The current G is the Skyline. I don't see it unless its a rebadged Renault or something.

[SimpleS14]

How is the IS a direct competitor to the 1-series? Have you seen the actual 1-series? It's small compared to the IS.

The IS competes with the 3-series.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

I don't see any of that happening, and usually I'm optimistic.

Lexus IS250
2.5L V6
204 hp/185 tq
Curb Weight: 3455 lbs.
Base MSRP: $30,555

BMW 1 128i
3.0L Inline 6
230 hp/200 tq
Curb Weight: 3494 lbs.
Base MSRP: $33,100

Why would they need another car in the Lexus lineup to compete with the 1 series? The IS is already a direct competitor. The price is cheaper than the 128i. Maybe they can bump the power some if they want to, which wouldn't be too hard to do, and will probably happen for the next model year. The 128i is heavier and it has 2 less doors. Maybe they'll just make a coupe IS, same engine choices though. Thats about all I see happening.

Infiniti- If they come up with a new addition to the G line, what engine will they use? Hell, what platform? The original G20 was the Primera (unfortunately they didn't bring the AWD version). The current G is the Skyline. I don't see it unless its a rebadged Renault or something.

The IS is in the 3 Series segment. The 1 Series is in a new segment. Even though the 135 is only barely less expensive then the 335(by like $5000loaded). The 1 is smaller in all dimensions. Toyota is already hard at work on the new RWD platform. The fact is they can make room in the Lexus line to compete with the 1 and be able to undercut the 1 in price by a good deal. The IS Coupe is coming. That's a no brainer. Especially now that the CTS is going to come as a coupe. Speaking if Cadillac they are ALSO talking about a 1 Series competitor. A RWD Sedan/Coupe below the CTS on their new platform.

In regards to Infinity, I used the G name loosely to be able to make a size comparison. I don't think they would call it a G??. What I see happening with Nissan/Inf. is this. They ARE working on a new 240/Silvia, and from what it sounds is that it's going to be a shortened Z platform. Similar to what BMW did with the 1 Series, just shortening a 3 platform. We've already discussed possible engines Nissan could use in this thread. The MR20, maybe another variant of the VQ. Nissan has so many great parts in their parts bin, it's not going to be a huge challenge for them to do this. SO, basically what I'm saying is it will break down like this:

New Nissan 240/250/Silvia (whatever it'll be called. I think that's going to be the hardest part for Nissan personally. At least Stateside)

New Infinity version. More upscale. Same deal as the Z/G coupe.

Possibly a small Sedan on the same platform.

To make a new platform feasible they MUST spread it across multiple vehicles.


Again, these are my predictions. Based on countless rumors, official statements, and 'off the record' statements I've read.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

How is the IS a direct competitor to the 1-series? Have you seen the actual 1-series? It's small compared to the IS.

The IS competes with the 3-series.

Well, yes it is smaller. By 9" in length, 1/2" in height, and 1.3" in width. I wasn't talking about the whole IS line, only the IS250. The IS350 would compare more to the 3 series, I believe. I don't see how the IS250 isn't a direct competitor other than its a sedan. They're around the same price range and performance. Unless there is something else I should be looking at?

Like I said, all they would need to do is make a coupe version and tune for some more power and call it a day.

2008 BMW 1 Series 128i 2dr Coupe (3.0L 6cyl 6M)

Exterior:

* Length: 171.7 in.
* Width: 68.8 in.
* Height: 56 in.
* Wheel Base: 104.7 in.
* Curb Weight: 3252 lbs.

2008 BMW 3 Series 328i 4dr Sedan (3.0L 6cyl 6M)

Performance:

* Base Number of Cylinders: 6
* Base Engine Size: 3 liters
* Base Engine Type: Inline 6
* Horsepower: 230 hp
* Max Horsepower: 6500 rpm
* Torque: 200 ft-lbs.
* Max Torque: 2750 rpm
* Drive Type: RWD

Exterior:

* Length: 178.2 in.
* Width: 71.5 in.
* Height: 55.9 in.
* Wheel Base: 108.7 in.
* Curb Weight: 3340 lbs.

Base MSRP: $32,400

2008 BMW 3 Series 335i 4dr Sedan (3.0L 6cyl Turbo 6M)

Performance:

* Base Number of Cylinders: 6
* Base Engine Size: 3 liters
* Base Engine Type: Inline 6
* Horsepower: 300 hp
* Max Horsepower: 5800 rpm
* Torque: 300 ft-lbs.
* Max Torque: 1400 rpm
* Drive Type: RWD

Exterior:

* Length: 178.2 in.
* Width: 71.5 in.
* Height: 55.9 in.
* Wheel Base: 108.7 in.
* Curb Weight: 3594 lbs.

Base MSRP: $38,900

2008 Lexus IS 350 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 6A)

Performance:

* Base Number of Cylinders: 6
* Base Engine Size: 3.5 liters
* Base Engine Type: V6
* Horsepower: 306 hp
* Max Horsepower: 6400 rpm
* Torque: 277 ft-lbs.
* Max Torque: 4800 rpm
* Drive Type: RWD

Exterior:

* Length: 180.1 in.
* Width: 70.9 in.
* Height: 56.1 in.
* Wheel Base: 107.5 in.
* Ground Clearance: 5.7 in.
* Curb Weight: 3527 lbs.

Base MSRP: $36,005

Originally Posted by exitspeed

The IS is in the 3 Series segment. The 1 Series is in a new segment. Even though the 135 is only barely less expensive then the 335(by like $5000loaded). The 1 is smaller in all dimensions. Toyota is already hard at work on the new RWD platform. The fact is they can make room in the Lexus line to compete with the 1 and be able to undercut the 1 in price by a good deal. The IS Coupe is coming. That's a no brainer. Especially now that the CTS is going to come as a coupe. Speaking if Cadillac they are ALSO talking about a 1 Series competitor. A RWD Sedan/Coupe below the CTS on their new platform.

Thats what I'm saying, a IS coupe is all they would need to make to compete with the 1 series. I don't see what is so new an radical with the 1 series. I really do think BMW fell short with that.

Something I was thinking about, how much more entry level can these luxury brands get!? How much cheaper can you make the car and still brand it as luxury? Is there no price point where Nissan and Toyota just say well this is too cheap for our Luxury brand?

In regards to Infinity, I used the G name loosely to be able to make a size comparison. I don't think they would call it a G??. What I see happening with Nissan/Inf. is this. They ARE working on a new 240/Silvia, and from what it sounds is that it's going to be a shortened Z platform. Similar to what BMW did with the 1 Series, just shortening a 3 platform. We've already discussed possible engines Nissan could use in this thread. The MR20, maybe another variant of the VQ. Nissan has so many great parts in their parts bin, it's not going to be a huge challenge for them to do this. SO, basically what I'm saying is it will break down like this

I believe they would still call it a G. Its their entry level line, they still called the G35 a G because its entry level, and its miles away from the G20 it replaced. Maybe they'll revive the G20 name if they use an MR20. But thats just details...

New Infinity version. More upscale. Same deal as the Z/G coupe.

I can maybe see that happening. Come out with a New Nissan "Silvia" and create one for the Infiniti line thats more upscale. Its going to be interesting to see how Nissan does that without cutting into Z and G sales though.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Well, yes it is smaller. By 9" in length, 1/2" in height, and 1.3" in width. I wasn't talking about the whole IS line, only the IS250. The IS350 would compare more to the 3 series, I believe. I don't see how the IS250 isn't a direct competitor other than its a sedan. They're around the same price range and performance. Unless there is something else I should be looking at?

Like I said, all they would need to do is make a coupe version and tune for some more power and call it a day.





Thats what I'm saying, a IS coupe is all they would need to make to compete with the 1 series. I don't see what is so new an radical with the 1 series. I really do think BMW fell short with that.

Something I was thinking about, how much more entry level can these luxury brands get!? How much cheaper can you make the car and still brand it as luxury? Is there no price point where Nissan and Toyota just say well this is too cheap for our Luxury brand?




I believe they would still call it a G. Its their entry level line, they still called the G35 a G because its entry level, and its miles away from the G20 it replaced. Maybe they'll revive the G20 name if they use an MR20. But thats just details...



I can maybe see that happening. Come out with a New Nissan "Silvia" and create one for the Infiniti line thats more upscale. Its going to be interesting to see how Nissan does that without cutting into Z and G sales though.

Some notes to consider that validate my points as far as Infinity is concerned. Infinity said they would be expanding their line-up by IIRC 7-8 models. This was before the EX came out and sans the Q. So, right now their expansion is one vehicle in. They confirmed they ARE bringing back the Q and we should see that next year. So we're still talking 5 more cars roughly. A smaller coupe and a smaller RWD Sedan are no brianers to me with this segment about to explode. I'll go out on a limb here and also say they are talking about a GTR sports car flagship Infinity (recent statements from Infinity said it would not be a sedan) AND...a supe'd up G35 Sedan to compete with the AMG's, M', and F's of the segment.

I love speculating. I can't wait to see how close my speculation is to what will happen in 2-3 years.

[exitspeed]

Throw another log onto the fire.

AutoCar procured a sketch of the oft-rumored and all-but-confirmed lightweight coupe that's being jointly developed between Subaru and Toyota, and their sources confirm that the final design will be signed off in July. According to the Brit pub, both automakers will have their own version of the rear-wheel-drive, two-door, powered by Subaru's own 175 hp, 2.0-liter boxer engine. A 2.5-liter, turbocharged version is also being considered, which might send power to all four wheels in a nod to the historic Celica GT4. Sales are expected to begin in Japan, the UK and North America in 2010. Here's hoping they can keep it under the $20k mark when it hits U.S.shores.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I thought about posting that, but the sketch is done so badly I couldn't bring myself to do it.
Check out how awful the perspective is.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I thought about posting that, but the sketch is done so badly I couldn't bring myself to do it.
Check out how awful the perspective is.

Yea it really is isn't it.

[Gnnr]

Oh yes, bring back the AWD Celica! And there is no Y in Infiniti exitspeed.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Oh yes, bring back the AWD Celica! And there is no Y in Infiniti exitspeed.

lol. I can't afford one, so I can't afford to spell it right.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

that can't be a subaru. it's not retardedly ugly.

i might be into buying that car.

[pablo180]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/10/t...-subaru-boxer/

At a press conference in Japan today, Toyota CEO Katsuaki Watanabe finally confirmed that his company is jointly developing a pair of rear-wheel-drive sports cars with Subaru. Each brand will get its own version of the car, which will be powered by one of Subaru's boxer engines, though the engine's displacement, power output and even number of cylinders is not yet known. We're also not sure if the Subaru version will feature the brand's trademark all-wheel-drive system either as an option or standard equipment, or whether Toyota might offer AWD as well in an homage to the Celica GT4 (we hope so!). The styling will most likely resemble the sketch that was leaked out yesterday, though we don't expect one car to be a rebadged version of the other. Mark your calendars for 2011, which is when the new sports cars are scheduled to arrive. They'll be riding on a brand new platform and be built in Japan at a new plant by Fuji Heavy Industries, the parent company of Subaru. Toyota also confirmed rumors this morning that it will be buying up more of Fuji, raising its stake in the company from 8.7% to 16.5%.

These RWD sports cars will mean a lot for both companies, as Subaru hasn't offered a performance coupe since the slightly odd SVX, and Toyota all but abandoned performance models after the Supra, Celica and MR2 were cancelled.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Well, yes it is smaller. By 9" in length, 1/2" in height, and 1.3" in width. I wasn't talking about the whole IS line, only the IS250. The IS350 would compare more to the 3 series, I believe. I don't see how the IS250 isn't a direct competitor other than its a sedan. They're around the same price range and performance. Unless there is something else I should be looking at?

One is a coupe, the other is a sedan and i think most buyers wouldn't cross shop the two. In this situation, I think powerplant alone should not be the sole reason for the direct comparision (IMO).