2008-2009 NBA Season Thread

[94cc0rd]

Anybody play Fantasy NBA? I posted a question about fantasy players on the previous page before the end of the laker game.

[monkz2332]

Originally Posted by monkz2332

BTW who on here has basketball fantasy teams
i got 4 on yahoo and i have like 3 guys injured on every team

i posted this like a couple days ago

[THE PROPHET]

Fuckin lakers lost by one point! ahh well lol is was a good, high percentage shooting game. Ill take the lose, not worried at all.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by 94cc0rd

OK first thing first, It wasn't me who said Mason got lucky. I said that it was a good shot by him and a bad foul by Fisher.

Second, Percentages don't matter when it comes to clutch situations. And again, I never said Mason wasn't clutch. I saw his shot in Phoenix and I saw his shot today. He is pretty clutch and he's a great shooter.

With that out of the way, I can see where you think most Laker fans are d-bags but what do you have against the actual Lakers team?

I always like to ask Laker haters that exact question. People usually don't have a good answer to that.

Nothin' against the lakers, I just hate Derek Fisher and laker fans. Could care less about everyone else, really. I like Pau, I like the triangle, I can tolerate Kobe while admiring his skills. Note also, I never said anything about whether the Lakers were any good - I just said their fans were dipshits, like calling Roger Mason lucky, or saying the refs were on the take (saw comments like that in other basketball forums on this game and also on the chatroom to the stream i was watching)

The thought that percentages don't matter when it comes to clutch situations is laughable and wonderfully naive.

I believe that some players crumble under the pressure - which means i believe in anti-clutchness. What you perceive as clutchness, a player "elevating" his game in "clutch" situations, is fiction. If there is clutchness, it is merely the ability to play according to your ability level, rather than below it, during pressure situations. Clutchness is the resistance to pressure, but not a magical spike in ability.

Why do we need to call Roger Mason clutch? He's a 47% three point shooter, which means he'll make roughly every other 3 he takes regardless of the situation. Nothing clutch about it, it's straight math.

Similarly, Derek Fisher is regarded as "clutch", but as a Warrior fan, I can tell you he sure as hell wasn't "clutch" for us. He's bricked his fair share of shots in all sorts of situations. Was Derek Fisher temporarily "not clutch"? Did he leave his clutch at home?

What if Derek Fisher weren't a flopping, whining, slow footed piece of shot point guard? What if he played better during the first 47 minutes of the game, maybe the game wouldn't come down to the last fuckin shot thereby requiring some sort of heroics to win? What if I swapped Derek Fisher for a player that's never hit a game winner in his life, but was 10x better in every facet, so the Lakers won all the games by 30 points, thereby not requiring any game winners? Would they lack clutchness? Would it matter? Will people stop perpetuating that shit?

Did the Lakers lose the finals because they lacked "clutchness"? or did they lose because they had no frontcourt depth worth a damn? I wonder which mattered more? jeez.

[BOROSUN]

Originally Posted by monkz2332

^^^lol.......gallinari the next dirk?????? really???? he hasent even played real nba players...knick practice doesnt count lol

i'm not claiming he's gonna be next dirk. we're hoping he can be...understand the difference!

he's tall 6'10 (only 19), he can dribble and shoot well.


summer game but, still they are real NBA PLAYERS.you do not know son.

[revat619]

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

I got over the loss 5 minutes after it ended. Here's why. We came back from 11 down mostly with a line-up of
Ariza/Fisher/Bynum/Odom/Powell. Powell came up huge and those buckets he made will go a long way towards
his confidence. Yue even got in around 2 minutes. lol

Quoted for truth.

and coming from a Laker fan...OptionZero, as much of a douchebag as YOU come off to be in these NBA threads, aside from the extreme hatred towards Derek Fisher, i agree with you.

[cfrost]

i moved closer and closer to the edge of my couch during the last 4mins of this game

good stuff, sad about the loss though

[ANVIL]

i get what optionzero is saying but i still think clutch is a factor. some players elevate their game when underpressure. and u cant rely on % either. if a player is a 50% shooter doesnt neccessary mean he will make every other shot. he can make 6 straight then miss 6 straight. or he can be 9/10 one night and 1/10 another night. clutch players have the ability to make shots under pressure.

after the past week, who still thinks Boston will make it to the finals over Cavs? im begining to like ATL over boston. what teams are looking to make roster changes before the deadline?

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by 94cc0rd

Anybody play Fantasy NBA? I posted a question about fantasy players on the previous page before the end of the laker game.

i do. i play on yahoo. i posted my roster somewhere way earlier in the thread. ive started to loose interest though, my teams been stuck at 4th place and no one is willing to trade. that and the fact that theres nothing on the line.

maybe next season we can do a zilvia fantasy bball league with something on the line. like $20 buy in or $50 buy in winner takes all and 2nd place gets their money back or something. or maybe get a sponsor to throw in a prize would be dope

[S13_Nightkid]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

i get what optionzero is saying but i still think clutch is a factor. some players elevate their game when underpressure. and u cant rely on % either. if a player is a 50% shooter doesnt neccessary mean he will make every other shot. he can make 6 straight then miss 6 straight. or he can be 9/10 one night and 1/10 another night. clutch players have the ability to make shots under pressure.

after the past week, who still thinks Boston will make it to the finals over Cavs? im begining to like ATL over boston. what teams are looking to make roster changes before the deadline?

I think/hope Boston can pull a rabbit out their asses.

[aziankingz]

Knicks are coming back - to the top!

[Phlip]

Does anyone think back to this and laugh?
the mighty mjd sports blog » Blog Archive » Silas called Boozer a cunt

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by aziankingz

Knicks are coming back - to the top!

not anytime soon

[ALTRNTV]

Originally Posted by Mark Stein (ESPN)

The comeback, even in defeat, might have made a louder statement about L.A.'s well-chronicled depth than anything we've seen all season. The rally actually gathered steam when Kobe found himself running side pick-and-rolls in crunch time with the little-used Josh Powell on back-to-back possessions ... both of them ending with Powell leaving his hand in the air to punctuate a drained midrange jumper after rolling into daylight and getting the ball from the blitzed Bryant.

............

The part about the short-handed Lakers playing so well with three regulars out and only eight guys Phil Jackson trusted to play on the second night of a back-to-back -- nine if you count Sun Yue's 82-second stint -- that the Spurs will undoubtedly be wondering if L.A. is even better than they thought.

Now that I take a different angle look at Fisher's foul... Mason played that very well.

[monkz2332]

woooooooooooooooooo.......go bulls........cavs lost!!!!!!!!!

[monkz2332]

Originally Posted by BOROSUN

i'm not claiming he's gonna be next dirk. we're hoping he can be...understand the difference!

he's tall 6'10 (only 19), he can dribble and shoot well.


summer game but, still they are real NBA PLAYERS.you do not know son.

i get what ur saying....but all im saying is dont compare him to a all star type player so quickly...relax thers a lot of players that people say will BECOME great but end up not dong anything..i know a lot son

[s14kings]

Derick Rose for ROY

[monkz2332]

Originally Posted by s14kings

Derick Rose for ROY

f@#k yeah.....its so amazing the way he takes the ball coast to coast with speed and control.....

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

i get what optionzero is saying but i still think clutch is a factor. some players elevate their game when underpressure. and u cant rely on % either. if a player is a 50% shooter doesnt neccessary mean he will make every other shot. he can make 6 straight then miss 6 straight. or he can be 9/10 one night and 1/10 another night. clutch players have the ability to make shots under pressure.

after the past week, who still thinks Boston will make it to the finals over Cavs? im begining to like ATL over boston. what teams are looking to make roster changes before the deadline?

50% doesn't mean that he'll miss 6 straight after making 6 straight, but it does mean that he probably will.

It's a probability. Kinda thought people knew that.

I know it's hard to let go of believing in "clutchness", it's like a nice little teddy bear to take to sleep with you when ur a toddler, it gives you a feeling of security.

I mean what if our beloved sports were governed by reason instead of passion? Why, that would be no fun at all.

My point?

Fuck derek fisher.

Fuck laker fans.

Fuck don nelson.

Fuck robert rowell

fuck chris cohan

that is all

[ALTRNTV]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Fuck derek fisher.

Fuck laker fans.

Rose was incredible tonight. Bulls helped us by beating the Lebrons.

[WERDdabuilder]

Originally Posted by s14kings

Derick Rose for ROY

been saying this since day one! he'll be a great player in due time.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by revat619

Quoted for truth.

and coming from a Laker fan...OptionZero, as much of a douchebag as YOU come off to be in these NBA threads, aside from the extreme hatred towards Derek Fisher, i agree with you.

I have never said, nor would I ever say that I am not a douchebag.

But that does not decrease the douchebaggery of others.

We're all dicks.


As for DIRK, what nobody talks about is his rebounding. Really, there's lots of other bigs that could handle a little and shoot the rock - hell, there isn't one out there that Don Nelson hasn't tried to play at center or point guard. Yet Dirk is a pretty good 2nd tier superstar because he's tremendously efficient with his shoot and REBOUNDS LIKE AN ACTUAL BIG MAN.

Most of those jump shooting big men are pussies. I mean, look at Al Harrington, he's 6'9 and "shoots", but he rebounds like a guard. Ditto for Bargnani and Yi Jianlian. Dirk actually sports a good rebound rate for any big man, much less a jumpshooting one.

Now, Dirk doesn't defend or pass very well, which is what sets him apart from Garnett and Duncan. Gotta play both ends of the court; even Dirk's tremendous shot-creating and shot-making abilities were not sufficient bridge the gap between his defense and those of his fellow elite big men.

So if Gallinari wants to be "Dirk", he'll need to bulk up a little bit and bang on the glass

Otherwise he'll have to settle for being a poor man's Kukoc.

[BOROSUN]

he's 20 and still growing. dirk is not that massive so no worries on bulking up. this kid is not skinny either.

perfectly fits dantoni's system and in no time he will start producing allstar numbers like everybody on the system maybe except for consistency.
we're hoping cause we got this kid for 5yrs(i think).

i'll settle for a kukoc but, we need a jordan.


and hopefully knicks should get this dpe from mobley and grab pargo on the way.

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

50% doesn't mean that he'll miss 6 straight after making 6 straight, but it does mean that he probably will.

It's a probability. Kinda thought people knew that.

I know it's hard to let go of believing in "clutchness", it's like a nice little teddy bear to take to sleep with you when ur a toddler, it gives you a feeling of security.

yes it is probability and i understand that. but under certain circumstances probability changes. the probability of some players to hit a jump shot in the middle of the 2nd quarter with nothing on the line is higher than hitting a game winning shot with 3 seconds left. defense gets tigher, theres more pressure ect. clutchness IS a factor.

[ANVIL]

btw, no call on grant hill's last drive at the end of regulation ftl LAME

[qwikspool]

grant hill was playing like he was 21 again.

[ALTRNTV]

Lebron with the crab dribble again. How does he get away with that? Good thing he got blocked.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

yes it is probability and i understand that. but under certain circumstances probability changes. the probability of some players to hit a jump shot in the middle of the 2nd quarter with nothing on the line is higher than hitting a game winning shot with 3 seconds left. defense gets tigher, theres more pressure ect. clutchness IS a factor.

Unless you've found a way to quantify "pressure" and measure a player's "pressure", you're once again making the "clutchness" argument with no reasoning to back it up.

Maybe Derek Fisher takes a shot in the 2nd quarter and makes it, then takes the exact same shot in the 4th with the "game on the line" and misses it. Was it because of pressure? if it was because of pressure, does that mean Derek Fisher is no longer clutch? Will he lose his clutchness forever? Was it temporary?

What if he missed that shot in the 4th because his shoe was loose? What if he had an itch on his back that distracted him?

You don't know, which is why defaulting to the "clutchness" argument is laughable.

There's no such thing, and EVEN IF THERE WERE, it's so fleeting and vague a notion that it's worthless for any predictive analysis.


If you want to win get the most talent and best coaching to manage that talent. Everything else is luck.

Building a team or believing in a player's "clutchness" is like chasing a unicorn. Eventually you need to wake up, get sober, and get back to work in the real world.

[yudalicious]

In general I think there are things as "clutch" and "choke" from my own anecdotal experiences. When the game is close with the clock winding down, many players get tense and as Barkley once said, their butt holes pucker up and that affects their performance negatively. Some players, while I don't know if their butt holes are puckered or not and don't really care to know, still can play to the same level as they're used to during those moments. Probably very hard to make any sort of quantitative analysis about it though.

[OptionZero]

You hit the nail on the head - all we have are anecdotal experiencesh. Following Sir Charles' inspiration I'll use a time old saying: opinions are like assholes, we all have one.