This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

swiftmini post up pix of your mods and how you did what, sounds interesting

I will post pics up as soon as I go back out too my car, will be one day this week.

A quick "how I did it"

I started with some old ball joints, some 32mm diameter steel and the taper pins from my front godspeed arms.

Cut the bar 50mm long.

Drill 15mm hole through the centre of the bar (along its centre line in a lathe)
Machine an internal taper that matches the balljoint taper

Drill an 18mm diameter hole (actually a press fit size but can't remember exact dimension)20mm??? Deep into the bar (in the opposite side to taper)



Now take the balljoint, cut the thread off of the top
Press the tapers together
Weld in through the 18mm hole
Plug weld through each side



Now take the pin and cut it off so you have the taper and 20mm??? Of straight diameter left (adjust this length according to the weld inside
Press in the pin
Weld around the pin/bar to secure
Plug weld through each side.




And that's basically how I did it. I know its not entirely safe, and I only did it too see if I could figure out where I went wrong. it isn't going to break but I don't want to take the risk anyways.

I'll get pics but you should be able to visualise that know probs

Kev

[koukimatt]

I think the info I need is in this thread but I don't know how to match up the issues I'm dealing with to the parts and info.

My car is on Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 coilovers, with SPL front tension rods and rear toe rods, Peak Performance RUCAs, 18x9.5 +15 wheels and 265/25R18 tires front and back. I had a 4-wheel alignment done recently but it's still not handling right. When I hit a bump, the car feels like it wants to yaw. Also, it pulls to the left so I have to hold the steering wheel to the right all the time to compensate.

I need help troubleshooting this... what's going on with my car? What parts do I need to fix it?

[mmdb]

Originally Posted by koukimatt

I think the info I need is in this thread but I don't know how to match up the issues I'm dealing with to the parts and info.

My car is on Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 coilovers, with SPL front tension rods and rear toe rods, Peak Performance RUCAs, 18x9.5 +15 wheels and 265/25R18 tires front and back. I had a 4-wheel alignment done recently but it's still not handling right. When I hit a bump, the car feels like it wants to yaw. Also, it pulls to the left so I have to hold the steering wheel to the right all the time to compensate.

I need help troubleshooting this... what's going on with my car? What parts do I need to fix it?

Sounds like a bump steer issue. You might need something like this made by SPL parts. Great quality stuff. Also, how much caster are you running?

[atutt]

Just finished reading all the way through.
Thank you PoorMan180sx for the help.
Cleared things up.

Why not make the knuckles out of Chromoly?
You can get away with slightly thinner material. And it has a much higher tensile strength than steel. For the same thickness of steel.
Yeah it can be a bit of a bitch to weld 100% correctly. But I think it would be worth making.

The problem I see with aluminum. Aside from the previous mentions of not enough weld penetration. Aluminum fatigues much quicker than steel. Probably even quicker in a drift environment.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by atutt

Just finished reading all the way through.
Thank you PoorMan180sx for the help.
Cleared things up.

Why not make the knuckles out of Chromoly?
You can get away with slightly thinner material. And it has a much higher tensile strength than steel. For the same thickness of steel.
Yeah it can be a bit of a bitch to weld 100% correctly. But I think it would be worth making.

The problem I see with aluminum. Aside from the previous mentions of not enough weld penetration. Aluminum fatigues much quicker than steel. Probably even quicker in a drift environment.

Hmm, that is a pretty good idea. Stronger and lighter weight. I would imagine it would cost a good bit more to get properly machined plates. I'll have to check into it.

[Def]

Aluminum works just fine as a front spindle. Almost every new car that's not very bargain oriented has cast aluminum spindles these days(for ease of mass production vs. CNC machining).

[atutt]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Hmm, that is a pretty good idea. Stronger and lighter weight. I would imagine it would cost a good bit more to get properly machined plates. I'll have to check into it.

The cost would be a bit higher. But still cheaper than CNC'd aluminum knuckles.
Machining and welding it will be more of a bitch. To do it 100% correctly.
I have access to a very capable machine shop (Did some heavy duty work for NASA and the Korean Military). And I'm more than capable of welding them.
Maybe I should make a set. See how it goes.

And PoorMan.. You have another PM

[GripTerror]

mmdb any updates

one guy got some install pix too:

Driftworks GeoMaster Hub Knuckles - Page 3 - Drifting forum - Driftworks

[mmdb]

Handed off my rear knuckles to skullworks (Mano and tower240sx) to get sphericals made. I got a set of rear coilovers to have my current ones modified. It'll be at least 2 weeks till I can have them installed.

The fronts are hassle free so far. Turn in is great, I really enjoy the steering ratio.

[GripTerror]

Nice... we will need more photos and feedback of the rear and of course track action including times Maybe some videos to compare to your old videos

[NewfoundlandDude]

Originally Posted by longfellow

I'm going to mill down my ES subframe bushings tonight as well so I'll post up the outcome of that as well. It should help correct the roll center a bit in the rear since they're is about a 1/2" space between the subframe and chassis.

Did you go ahead with this after, and what were the results?
I was thinking about doing a similar thing, except I was going to cut the "lip" off my aluminum subframe bushings and let the top one sit inside the subframe cup to raise the rear subframe by ~9.2mm.

Anyone else have any feedback on a similar mod?

[95KA-Turbo]

That's more or less what the PSM subframe risers do.

[mmdb]

Rolling woes at the absolute limit at streets of willow going CW. This was with 8/7kg springs front and rear, progress sway bars med. stiffness up front, least stiffness in the rear, gp sports knuckles in the front (~20mm of front adjustment), and moonface roll center adjusters in the rear (+15mm of added adjustment).

Note: cars feels a lot of a lot better with 45mm of adjustment using the Driftwork knuckles. I'll definitely have to test 'em at SOW. Now only if the 240sx 2010 convention would have a GRIP event



Rolling battle with an STI. We took different lines. I basically came out further and, split the pin turns into two turns to lengthen the straight.



Took the shallower line here and didn't overdrive the corner (slow in fast out).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw01TQ9xxPg

[GripTerror]

I'm guessing those pix are from your previous setup, i run stiffer springs and sways my car rolls less... thats alot of roll for moi

Can't wait to see the DW stuff in action... I'm jealous Really looking forward to the rear feedback since there's been all this talk about it overadjusting.

[longfellow]

I was at a driving event over the weekend and noticed my car has a ton of bumpsteer. I never notice it on the street, but out on the course it was terrible. I guess thats what you get for a low car using Moog stuff. Time to order SPL outers soon.

[mmdb]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

I'm guessing those pix are from your previous setup, i run stiffer springs and sways my car rolls less... thats alot of roll for moi

Can't wait to see the DW stuff in action... I'm jealous Really looking forward to the rear feedback since there's been all this talk about it overadjusting.

Yes sir! I want to keep the same spring rates, and I'm really wanting to get the rear spindles on. I thinking the new geometry will help a lot. I felt a good improvement with the moonface roll center adjusters. Maybe I'll call up skullworks and bug them to speed up the process of making the sphericals for the spindles.

[GripTerror]

^hehe cant wait

Longfellow: I've got spl tie rods lol... but still being lowered it was crap and noticable... even though the arms were adjusted parallel... raising the car back up was miraculous... so many things just feel wrong... Only way im going lower again is with dw's spindles or something similar...

Eh looks like powered by max wont be releasing their version, its been a dead talking point for months now based on their forums... lame. Someone needs to poke them with a needle or something.

Kuah had no requests/plans and so i dunno if anyone else would jump on it... this would sell like hot cupcakes considering how obsessed the s chassis community is for being slammed. Our cars are of course 4x4 especially s13s (in my case).

Of course my interest being not appearance but hey doesn't hurt to look good too doing it

[longfellow]

Yeah, I'm running KTS coil-overs with softer springs (6k/4.5k) and 255 x4 and still tucking tire upfront. I didnt mean to run the car like this I just havent had time to actually re-adjust everything back to where I had it originally before I swapped in the softer springs. I rub everywhere and just ate my chassis harness so the car is dead at the moment.

But I plan on raising the car up about 1/2" in the front and 1/4" in the rear then getting SPL tie rods and seeing how that works. I think it will help out a ton. I'm working on a motor at the moment but once thats done I plan on attacking the suspension again and getting the last few parts I need.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by mmdb

Yes sir! I want to keep the same spring rates, and I'm really wanting to get the rear spindles on. I thinking the new geometry will help a lot. I felt a good improvement with the moonface roll center adjusters. Maybe I'll call up skullworks and bug them to speed up the process of making the sphericals for the spindles.

I hear those guys are lazy, you're screwed

I really like the way the front of your car behaved when I rode in it
I don't know how much of that was the ASTs though but the set up felt pretty good and predictable

[mmdb]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

I hear those guys are lazy, you're screwed

I really like the way the front of your car behaved when I rode in it
I don't know how much of that was the ASTs though but the set up felt pretty good and predictable

Seriously! S13s strewn all over the lot along with their parts! Geez! Make my damn sphericals asap! I'll buy you guys dinner ok? Done deal?

Believe it or not, but the way the front of the car behaved was largely due to the DW spindles.

[ManoNegra]

So Jimmi dropped off his rear knuckles with us to get spherical bushings made
one of the requests was to ensure that the z32 e-brake assembly would fit
we started by checking with a set we have on hand:





The e-break assembly bolt pattern is moved from top to bottom
this forces you to use the assembly from the opposite side
but by doing so the e-brake cable bolt location has now been moved aswell
from bottom to top creating the clearance issue above

another thing to consider would be what, if any, other issues will arise
with the caliper bolted on

so what question begs to be asked:
did Driftworks do any test fitting on their cars?
If they did, I'd love to see how they got around the issue

-Juan

[Jakob]

on their s15 driftcar that used a hydraulic ebrake so they didnt had any clearance problems



and on their prototypes they are missing the mounting holes



ill try to find some customer pics and see how they solved that problem
so i guess they werent planning on using z32 e brakes and didnt think about a way to mount them from the beginning.
they did some correction afterwards and a small description how to fit them but no pics...


edit: i found this

To fit the rears to an S13 and retain the drum handbrake(same as z32), we have included the necessary holes in the back plate. Some brake components will need swapping from the left to the right side to work, and other minor modification may be required.

hope that helps! oh and awesome thread i hope i can join the talk once my car is lowered lol

[longfellow]

Originally Posted by NewfoundlandDude

Did you go ahead with this after, and what were the results?
I was thinking about doing a similar thing, except I was going to cut the "lip" off my aluminum subframe bushings and let the top one sit inside the subframe cup to raise the rear subframe by ~9.2mm.

Anyone else have any feedback on a similar mod?

I just saw your post.

I foam'd the subframe at the same time I chopped the bushings, but the over all effect of both was more responisive rear and it felt like it had a little more bite. It also seem'd to turn in quicker and rotate faster. Thats all street driving though, I went to my first auto-x event and the car felt pretty good minus bumper steer from the stock tie rod set up.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by Jakob

on their s15 driftcar that used a hydraulic ebrake so they didnt had any clearance problems



and on their prototypes they are missing the mounting holes



ill try to find some customer pics and see how they solved that problem


edit: i found this

To fit the rears to an S13 and retain the drum handbrake(same as z32), we have included the necessary holes in the back plate. Some brake components will need swapping from the left to the right side to work, and other minor modification may be required.

hope that helps! oh and awesome thread i hope i can join the talk once my car is lowered lol

But no one has actually done it or brought it to their attention
that the e-brake assembly won't work without custom modification?

Jimmi is going to give them a ring and see what they have to say about the matter.

[Jakob]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

But no one has actually done it or brought it to their attention
that the e-brake assembly won't work without custom modification?

Jimmi is going to give them a ring and see what they have to say about the matter.

i found nothing, only lots of s13 guys asking about 5 lug swaps lol

most drifters use hydraulic e brake and people who can afford those knuckles dont bother with stock e brakes.
and the s chassis is mostly used for drifting in europe no time attack or auto-x

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by Jakob

i found nothing, only lots of s13 guys asking about 5 lug swaps lol

most drifters use hydraulic e brake and people who can afford those knuckles dont bother with stock e brakes.
and the s chassis is mostly used for drifting in europe no time attack or auto-x

Ok, I see
here is somewhat the opposite
Z32 e-brake assemblies are very popular with drifters from what I understand

[Jakob]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

Ok, I see
here is somewhat the opposite
Z32 e-brake assemblies are very popular with drifters from what I understand

i feel bad whoring this thread out about ebrakes but it helps to understand the culture differences between two continents i guess

people over here are CRAZY about hydro ebrakes and abuse the shit out of them, ok most driftcars here are bmws rarely s chassis and almost none of them are dailydrivers.

in america its completely different, lots of s chassis, lots of daily drivers and z32 e brake is a good inexepensive and oem mod haha and its more reliable then hydro imo....

[mmdb]

^ yeap. I'd go hydro, but I don't want to risk it failing. Sucks nuts.

I emailed DW. I didn't want to call them from my cell phone and get a fat phone bill. I'll post up whatever they might say. Worse case is they'll tell me they don't work, and so I'll seek a refund for the rears. I need my ebrakes man!

Mano, get your rear knuckles made asap!

[SicBastard]

"...and other minor modification may be required."

It looks like you could just grind the shit out of that corner without getting too close to anything structural from the pics you posted. Or is my perspective off?

Unrelated question: can z32 spindles and iron s14 spindles use your same sphericle bearings?

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by mmdb

^ yeap. I'd go hydro, but I don't want to risk it failing. Sucks nuts.

I emailed DW. I didn't want to call them from my cell phone and get a fat phone bill. I'll post up whatever they might say. Worse case is they'll tell me they don't work, and so I'll seek a refund for the rears. I need my ebrakes man!

Mano, get your rear knuckles made asap!

Hydro e-brake failing? That's what good stainless line is for! Even Rally cars run their hydro e-brakes inline.

Really looking forward to the Skullworks designs, and from what I understand Atutt is working with some chromoly on some knuckles. I'm sure he'll update us when he's made some progress.