General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[BOROSUN]

racism is children of the lies propaganda.

Just pointing out on Alex jones on recent occurrence. i dont even listen to infowars.

[BOROSUN]

Originally Posted by nick_d_240sx

You think Borosun would believe data from the FBI? LoL



In my opinion that's an insignificant minority when compared to the total population. Does that constitute a public health emergency? I don't think so.

Everyone exhibits some form of racism. It's why most races hang out with people that share their values, culture and race.

White people can't report racism or hate, that would be racist.

check the book Hate Crime Hoax.

[deolio]

Anyone have a solution to gun violence yet?

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by deolio

Anyone have a solution to gun violence yet?

Republicans be like:

[deolio]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Republicans be like:
[IMG]

That?s not true, they tried adding more guns!

[Phlip]

You're ALL tripping, it is the teachers' fault for not wanting to carry guns and defend the children.

Until these selfish-ass teachers get with the program, you better do more thinking and praying or nothing will change.

[tuzzio]

[QUOTE=Phlip;6418013 it is the teachers' fault for not wanting to carry guns and defend the children.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I would've chosen the word "fault" but I can agree that teachers should push back and take a more defensive stand point as well. After all, their lives are at risk as well.

My girlfriend is a certified ALICE instructor. Its amazing how little this information is presented to people in (potential) positions where this would be particularly useful training.

Controversial standpoint: I'm a firm believer that people are the problem, not the weapon. Humans are trash.

[Future240]

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by tuzzio

I'm not sure I would've chosen the word "fault" but I can agree that teachers should push back and take a more defensive stand point as well. After all, their lives are at risk as well.

My wife is weapons trained, having transferred from probation to teaching, and she would absofuckinglutely quit on the spot if required to take up a weapon for this shit and I 100% stand behind that.
It is not the already underpaid teachers' job to be in a goddamned shootout, when said shootout could have been avoided.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Phlip

My wife is weapons trained, having transferred from probation to teaching, and she would absofuckinglutely quit on the spot if required to take up a weapon for this shit and I 100% stand behind that.
It is not the already underpaid teachers' job to be in a goddamned shootout, when said shootout could have been avoided.

Agreed.

I have an idea. We should hire other people who are firearms trained to respond quickly to active shooter situations and deal with the perp. We can identify these people with official seals, hmmm maybe something like a badge. We can even give them a uniform so lots of people recognize them. Better yet, lets give them a car clearly marked that has flashing lights so people know who they are.

That way when something happens these people can respond quick as possible to defuse the situation.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by Future240

I have an idea. We should hire other people who are firearms trained to respond quickly to active shooter situations and deal with the perp. We can identify these people with official seals, hmmm maybe something like a badge. We can even give them a uniform so lots of people recognize them. Better yet, lets give them a car clearly marked that has flashing lights so people know who they are.

That way when something happens these people can respond quick as possible to defuse the situation.

You mean the assholes who engaged the guy before he went in, and then cowered outside the school and did nothing for 45 minutes, don't you?
DON'T YOU, CALVIN?!!?

[nick_d_240sx]

No more gun free zones. Protect schools like politicians and banks. It's not hard.
That's too easy of an answer though, useless gun law proposals and meaningless discussion about mental illness should do the trick.

[BryanSayWhat]

Here we go with the "80-90% of Americans want Universal Background Checks" BS in the headlines again.

You can not have Universal Background Checks without first having a complete registry of all firearms. They knew this when they enacted the "Gun Control Act of 1968" and thus why a "compromise" (not a loophole) was made for private sales in the same state.

I'm also with nick_d_240sx. These lone wolf sub-humans aren't single-handedly taking control of banks, so why not implement similar safety measures? We've sent highly trained armed professionals around the world in the name of "The War on Drugs/ Terror", so why can't we do the same for are schools? That way you don't arm the teachers and all of the "extensive training and background checks" are done with the armed professionals (with the main goal of being a deterrent for would be assailants).

[KA24DESOneThree]

Return on investment of armed guards at schools is low. There have been 74 kids aged 0-14 killed with firearms at schools since 2000. Somewhere around 106k elementary schools in the US.

You're talking tens of billions in pay and benefits. Making a world where kids grow up with armed security in their school despite the incredibly low probability of violence. The high school I went to already looks more like a prison without armed guards. Kids don't need that shit- it fills them with dread and apprehension. This isn't something to be scared of, not in terms of probability. Prepare the schools otherwise, run drills, but do it because you care about the kids, not because you want to scare them.

Spree shooters have hatred in their hearts. They're loners and either psych themselves up or find cheerleaders online. Typically narcissists. Encouraged by cultural icons like the Joker- famous misanthropes are their jam. Driven by a lack of moral values they see, by online depictions of moral decay. The Sandy Hook shooter thought he was saving the children by killing them before they understood the moral decay they were growing into (oh, and he might have been a pedo as well).

They see guns differently than the rest of us. To them, they're gateways to omnipotence, they're masculinity, they're fetishized as objects through which they can finally have power to replace the powerlessness of their childhood.

PIVOT!

In certain countries, children are taught respect and to clean up after themselves and their classmates. Education is more equal between those from wealthy backgrounds and those from poor backgrounds (in the case of Japan, inequity is roughly half of America's inequity). Teachers move from school to school and develop a larger base of student knowledge. Children are taught respect and manners and critical thinking. Some countries ban homeschooling because children have a right to knowledge from multiple sources.

We grow up being taught, in good nationalistic fashion, about the greatness of our country. About how the United States is the best and more free country on Earth. Then we open our eyes and we start seeing the inequality, the inequity, the USAPATRIOT act, the illegal wars, the civil asset forfeiture, the court system that would rather bury you than see you reach your trial date, the Bureau of Reclamation, the Army Corps of Engineers, the divide between rich and poor, the systemic racism, the dumb, angry assholes who can vote. Instead of saying, "you can be the next best generation because we prepared you well," we say, "good fucking luck."

That's not good enough for our kids.

[BryanSayWhat]

All great points.

Does anyone have any inputs on modern schooling in general needing a complete and total revamp? Or, is it still not antiquated and we just need to better control everything outside of it?

[Om1kron]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

All great points.

Does anyone have any inputs on modern schooling in general needing a complete and total revamp? Or, is it still not antiquated and we just need to better control everything outside of it?

my kid is going to be annoying and woke as fuck since they want to continue teaching white washing in school. I'll teach them everything school wont if I don't end up homeschooling.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Phlip

You mean the assholes who engaged the guy before he went in, and then cowered outside the school and did nothing for 45 minutes, don't you?
DON'T YOU, CALVIN?!!?

No because those are police. Police do not have a legal responsibility to protect you.

https://prospect.org/justice/police-...ct-the-public/

[KA24DESOneThree]

So it turns out that, in 2018, two teens were arrested while making plans to shoot up a junior high in Uvalde. Their ages are similar to this shooter's, but information is scarce on the ground. LINK: https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...s-12882042.php

Edit: In this article, the editor's update note specifically says this shooter is not one of the two previously arrested for planning a shooting: https://www.kens5.com/article/news/c.../273-548565605

Is this another Parkland, where law enforcement absolutely failed at its job? The reports coming out now are fucking wild.

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Is this another Parkland, where law enforcement absolutely failed at its job? The reports coming out now are fucking wild.

Still waiting for the pro Trump / republican crowd to justify this one.

Why did it take them over an hour to breach the classroom? Because “they could’ve been shot”? Maybe they should reconsider their career choice if they’re worried about being shot at.

Why did it take a border patrol agent leaving a diner on his lunch break and driving 40 miles to stop the shooter?

For a city that spends 40% of its budget on their police department, this type of response is an absolute joke.

I was under the impression that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Still waiting for the pro Trump / republican crowd to justify this one.

Why did it take them over an hour to breach the classroom? Because ?they could?ve been shot?? Maybe they should reconsider their career choice if they?re worried about being shot at.

Why did it take a border patrol agent leaving a diner on his lunch break and driving 40 miles to stop the shooter?

For a city that spends 40% of its budget on their police department, this type of response is an absolute joke.

I was under the impression that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun.

Not "pro Trump / republican crowd", but...

Pro-Gun people have been saying for a long time, that you can't always count on the police to protect you. Thus why they own firearms. Anti-Gunners of course called them paranoid.

For some reason Anti-Gunners are trying to use that as "Oh look, those cops/ SWAT and SRO's couldn't stop that guy, so neither could anyone else with a gun!". As usual they are projecting that people with firearms lack the "mindset" of protecting themselves, or others.

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Not "pro Trump / republican crowd", but...

Pro-Gun people have been saying for a long time, that you can't always count on the police to protect you. Thus why they own firearms. Anti-Gunners of course called them paranoid.

For some reason Anti-Gunners are trying to use that as "Oh look, those cops/ SWAT and SRO's couldn't stop that guy, so neither could anyone else with a gun!". As usual they are projecting that people with firearms lack the "mindset" of protecting themselves, or others.

The majority of us are aware that we can’t count on police for anything when it comes to our personal belongings or safety. What we can count on them for is harassing us over trivial shit, power-tripping, and being trigger happy.

To be clear, I’m not part of the anti-gun side. A complete and total ban on guns does not completely solve our issues. Plenty of illegally sourced firearms coming into the US through various channels.

Having plenty of responsible gun owning friends as well as current/former military friends, I’m well aware that you can own these things without being a complete douchebag spewing “muh rights” and “muh freedumbs”. Our country is filled with more than enough people willing to compromise if it means finding common ground for our own as well as our families safety.

One of the stupidest ideas being arming our teachers. Sure, let’s give our overworked, underpaid, and undersupplied teachers firearms and expect them to learn proper firearm safety and tactical response in the event of another active shooter situation. Every single one of us can think back to our childhoods and name a teacher that under no circumstances should EVER own a gun, let alone have it in the same room as our kids.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

One of the stupidest ideas being arming our teachers. Sure, let?s give our overworked, underpaid, and undersupplied teachers firearms and expect them to learn proper firearm safety and tactical response in the event of another active shooter situation. Every single one of us can think back to our childhoods and name a teacher that under no circumstances should EVER own a gun, let alone have it in the same room as our kids.

Based purely on my public schooling experience, I do agree with you. I've never been in a smaller private school, so armed teachers might be better suited for that environment?

Obviously, a lot of people can't afford private schooling and most parents can't accommodate their child being schooled from home (even if it was provided for free from the Government).

These recent events create an unfortunate stalemate on both sides of the argument. As either solution would take a massive amount of money and physical effort to produce actual results.

[CrimsonRockett]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Based purely on my public schooling experience, I do agree with you. I've never been in a smaller private school, so armed teachers might be better suited for that environment?

Obviously, a lot of people can't afford private schooling and most parents can't accommodate their child being schooled from home (even if it was provided for free from the Government).

These recent events create an unfortunate stalemate on both sides of the argument. As either solution would take a massive amount of money and physical effort to produce actual results.

Considering how selective and costly private schools can be, it does make sense why they have fewer school shootings. Fewer students per teacher, higher quality education, and a lot of parent involvement.

We continue to bring up people's mental health as of late. What affects mental health? Some of the obvious ones:

• Abusive parents/relatives
  Little to no parental supervision
  Shitty parents
  Stress (work or school related)
  Bullying
  Racism
  Overworked/underpaid
  Healthcare
  Alcohol/drug abuse
  Depression

It's pretty difficult for people (especially the younger crowd) to stay motivated when corporations reported record profits during a pandemic...all while using inflation as an excuse to jack up prices. We used to glorify "the American dream" where a single income was sufficient to afford a home, cars, and the usual monthly expenses along with annual vacations. Now, people are barely able to afford any time off while struggling to make ends meet. Having learned this first hand, most parents don't choose to be bad parents. They didn't choose to leave their kids unsupervised. Daycare is expensive and people are just trying to survive.

Minimum wage is a joke. Companies that pay minimum wage basically are saying "hey, we'd pay you less, but we are legally required to pay you this bare minimum". There are absolutely no labor shortages. It's funny how much people shit on fast food workers, yet those same folks are the ones complaining about having to wait an extra 5 minutes for their order because these places are understaffed. All because these places refuse to give up a small percentage of their profits to pay their staff a living wage. How many corporations knowingly abuse government programs all to avoid having to provide their staff with benefits?

Wanna solve this gun problem? Pay people more. Give them affordable healthcare. Stop working them to the fucking bone. Allow them more personal time off. Stop banning books you racist fucks. The more our younger generation learns from our history, the better chance they have at learning from it and pushing for a better future.

Also, set term limits. Older people are mostly seen as senile, yet they are the ones running this country. These people do not relate to our problems and the overwhelming majority do not give a single shit about the cities and states they represent.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRockett

Also, set term limits. Older people are mostly seen as senile, yet they are the ones running this country. These people do not relate to our problems and the overwhelming majority do not give a single shit about the cities and states they represent.

The fact that these out-of-touch 75-80somethings are making rules for a populace they not only don't understand or really give a fuck about, but will soon enough no longer be a part of is angering.
2-term limit, done and done. Of course, it comes upon the hands of the same people set to lose their grip on corrupting power to vote on this, so it will never EVER happen.

[KA24DESOneThree]

A Princeton study said a decade ago that democracy is dead, long live oligopoly... and I'm fairly certain we've strayed further from representation, not closer.

I'd be down for a mandatory waiting period on purchases by 18-20 year olds and would be willing to explore the idea of licensing for center-fire semi-auto rifles purchased by that same group. The licensing would have to be fair, inexpensive, and a low bar to cross.

Why am I alright with this? I'm not, but gun owners don't really have many choices. Pressure is mounting, so the smart thing to do is get ahead of requirements with our own input.

I think, though, that gun owners need to be willing to compromise on mental health (i.e. we're going to need to have some form of universal healthcare) and also need to compromise on the fact that there's some massive spending that needs to happen in areas where community advancement is low.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

A Princeton study said a decade ago that democracy is dead, long live oligopoly... and I'm fairly certain we've strayed further from representation, not closer.

I'd be down for a mandatory waiting period on purchases by 18-20 year olds and would be willing to explore the idea of licensing for center-fire semi-auto rifles purchased by that same group. The licensing would have to be fair, inexpensive, and a low bar to cross.

Why am I alright with this? I'm not, but gun owners don't really have many choices. Pressure is mounting, so the smart thing to do is get ahead of requirements with our own input.

I think, though, that gun owners need to be willing to compromise on mental health (i.e. we're going to need to have some form of universal healthcare) and also need to compromise on the fact that there's some massive spending that needs to happen in areas where community advancement is low.

We live in a world where a guy told NPR at the NRA Convention that a few dead children here and there were a necessary evil; basically the cost of doing business in order to keep the second amendment untouched. When the discourse is reduced to the murder of former fetuses (<-- see what I did there?), compromise is no more

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Phlip

We live in a world where a guy told NPR at the NRA Convention that a few dead children here and there were a necessary evil; basically the cost of doing business in order to keep the second amendment untouched. When the discourse is reduced to the murder of former fetuses (<-- see what I did there?), compromise is no more

Pro life!!!!!!

Until you are born, then you own your own. Better pull yourself up by your diaper straps.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Phlip

We live in a world where a guy told NPR at the NRA Convention that a few dead children here and there were a necessary evil; basically the cost of doing business in order to keep the second amendment untouched. When the discourse is reduced to the murder of former fetuses (<-- see what I did there?), compromise is no more

Aren't dead children a necessary evil of policing in the United States? A necessary evil of the drug war in the United States? A necessary evil of the low bar for entry to drive in the United States? A necessary evil of the paid healthcare system in the United States? A necessary evil of being the world police?

I'm being kinda flippant but still... that's the word of a single idiot at a convention run by a group that literally supported Reagan as a beacon of freedom after he sent a letter supporting the assault weapon ban in 1994.

Dead children are a constant in American society. Infant mortality rates are rising here as they're falling in other industrialized nations. Children are less mentally well here than in other industrialized nations and kill themselves at a shocking rate now. We're still dealing with childhood poverty and hunger and obesity and food deserts and lack of access to equitable education at higher rates than our so-called equals on the world stage. We're in a backslide while they're strengthening.

[mav1178]

my only contribution:

I'm ok with people owning AR-15 type weapons as long as the legal age for owning a gun with more than 10 rounds is raised to 21. Typically this ends up being limited to non-handguns.

not going to stop things but at least it makes it slower/more costly to have the capacity to shoot that many bullets in a short period of time.

sort of like FPS games, you start off with basic weapons and get upgrades as you progress. newbs can't just buy the biggest gun without qualifying to own it.

Edit: I'm a realist. I understand liberals will not get what they want. I understand conservatives will not get what they want. Both need to compromise a bit, so raising the age limit for high capacity or high caliber weapons is the best short term middle ground. "Assault weapons ban" will get nowhere, nor will patchwork "ban" laws on the state level that serve to antagonize/polarize the masses even more. But until something is actually done, we can only just repeat what is posted on The Onion, where there is literally a satirical article about "the pros and cons of letting children die"

https://www.theonion.com/the-pros-an...die-1848983842

[KA24DESOneThree]

That's where the centerfire distinction should come into effect.

Rimfire rounds are all relatively ineffective on people (.22WMR and .17HMR are both fairly deadly in the vitals) and are hilariously ineffective against even the most mundane of body armor. Rimfire, by nature of construction, is less reliable (in terms of failures to fire) than centerfire and also by nature of construction doesn't feed as well unless it's a revolver or tube magazine.