The Future Automotive Thread

[irax]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Poor sales? That car sold out of its first model year before they started production.

Sales slowed down when people started spreading rumors of turbo STi subaru version.

[iveexcaped3]

heres why i wouldnt buy the frs
1 its not enough power for what their claiming it to be. if your gonna claim a sports car make it one. dont give it some shit engine thats gonna fall on its face when the gas pedal is hit.
2 its over priced for what it is. 25k for a base model is rediculous.

i could get a 2014 370z for another 5k more and get around 120hp more than the frs and an all around better car, they wonder why their market crashed

[kingkilburn]

Please define what a sports car and crap engine are for me.

[iveexcaped3]

easy.
sports cars..... not FRS
crap engine..... FRS engine
defined enough for you or do you need me to google it for you as well

[kingkilburn]

I don't need you to google anything. I need you to give a frame of reference for why a car that inexpensive has to live up to being a "sports" car.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I bet Nissan is paying attention to this...

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...t-new-variants

The article is a bunch of bs. No way in hell diesel will replace hybrids in the US.

[iveexcaped3]

just because its a coupe and has a manual trans doesnt make it a sports car. some thing that can perform lay down impressive numbers and can hold up to its looks is a sports car, only number thats impressive is the asking price that toyota thought they could get for this car. its like giving someone a 180sx and pop the hood and its has a ka24e. if im spending 30k on a car thats claimed as a sports car and im paying premium insurance for better be worth it. this car sold out before people found out how bad it fell on its face. sure you can get turbos in there and beef it up but at what cost? since they went with a box 4 on this they should have went turbo on it. the motor has to be practically maxed out seeing how the compression ratio is at 12.5:1 the only thing you can do is turbo this if you want more out of it

[iveexcaped3]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

The article is a bunch of bs. No way in hell diesel will replace hybrids in the US.

no but i do see diesel replacing gas in the future, less effort to produce, higher cost, and now they can regulate diesel motors emissions.

[kingkilburn]

If American fuel and auto companies didn't spend decades shit talking on diesel people would already be driving TDIs in droves.

Getting 40+ mpg as a conservative estimate while retaining decent power is great. Better than the expense and hassle of all electric or hybrids.


EDIT
Where the fuck are you seeing FRSs going for $30k?

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

If American fuel and auto companies didn't spend decades shit talking on diesel people would already be driving TDIs in droves.

Getting 40+ mpg as a conservative estimate while retaining decent power is great. Better than the expense and hassle of all electric or hybrids.


EDIT
Where the fuck are you seeing FRSs going for $30k?

The article is referring to the Euro market where the GT86 is dumb expensive.

[hockeyplaye8511]

I always assumed the price of the FRS would hurt it. Especially now that the mustang has IRS alot of people seem to think you arent getting alot for that 25k. You get what, a mediocre interior, no torque, and not alot of hp. I wonder if the reason for the high price is it didnt have a platform to share

[iveexcaped3]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Where the fuck are you seeing FRSs going for $30k?

since you dont know how to look for a new car click here

Originally Posted by hockeyplaye8511

I always assumed the price of the FRS would hurt it. Especially now that the mustang has IRS alot of people seem to think you arent getting alot for that 25k. You get what, a mediocre interior, no torque, and not alot of hp. I wonder if the reason for the high price is it didnt have a platform to share

thats why i wouldnt buy one, scion was aimed for the younger crowd and reasonable prices(XB and TC) however they shot way out of the park with this one at the wrong time. it most likely would have sold more if the economy was better and there was more jobs out there.

[kingkilburn]

I know there are lots of numbers there, and reading must be very tough for you, but none of them are $30,000.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by iveexcaped3

just because its a coupe and has a manual trans doesnt make it a sports car. some thing that can perform lay down impressive numbers and can hold up to its looks is a sports car, only number thats impressive is the asking price that toyota thought they could get for this car. its like giving someone a 180sx and pop the hood and its has a ka24e. if im spending 30k on a car thats claimed as a sports car and im paying premium insurance for better be worth it. this car sold out before people found out how bad it fell on its face. sure you can get turbos in there and beef it up but at what cost? since they went with a box 4 on this they should have went turbo on it. the motor has to be practically maxed out seeing how the compression ratio is at 12.5:1 the only thing you can do is turbo this if you want more out of it

Your digging yourself a deep hole in the world of the inexperienced here with your statement above. In fact your statement would have eliminated a lot of real sports that were produced in the 50's and 60's including the likes of early Porsches which really did not have incredible power .
By your statement one could negate a Lotus Exige to the non sports car bin because its powered by a NA Toyota dual cam engine.
Forgot about MG"s Trumph's Morgans, Alfa's , Opal GT's, Fiat 124's, Hell by your statement a 240z barely makes it in the door.

So really what does make a car a Sports car vs a non sports car. Well the purists might say it needs to be open cockpit ah but those are roadsters and they are a distinctive type of sports car signified by a lack of regular hardtop roof. Then you Coupe and Fastback. Then you even have 2 door and 4 door sports sedan a place BMW knows real well.
Now those are the types lets look at what defines them. First off they usually handle well and this is one of the big determining factors as ordinary cars are not usually typified by exclamatory handling. Fact is FRS/BRZ actually do handle quite well. Seems like they have that category nailed.
Second off the feel of the car tends to feel sporty. This Is something NIssan is quite good at i.e. making there cars feel sporty. Again Toyota/Suburu have actually achieved this.
Now lets talk about engines because that seems to be where you are solely focused.
Remember those British cars I mentioned and the early Porsches? Well they were pretty horribly underpowered. Yet they handled well for their time looked the part and were fun to drive. Hmm last ingredient of all this that cements a Sports cars identity is do they take them racing. Oh and they did in hordes in fact you go to SCCA races today you will still see some out there in certain classes still producing mediocre power ( more than stock) in relation to todays engines and whatnot.

Now disclaimer here FWD and RWD big argument most purists insist on a proper Sports car being RWD but FWD and AWD have actually creeped into the equation reeking havoc in the racing world in class definition. You know see FWD cars competing against RWD cars. Are they true sports cars? Some say yes some say no. A lot believe while they are not true Sports cars in the purist sense they are sporty cars.
General public is a bit clueless in this department. Give it a peppy engine and decent sporty looks and the manufacture convinces the public they are buying what they think is a Sports car.
Now again the FRS/BRZ ticks the box of purism in it being RWD .

Now about these engines Fact is a 1972 240Z scaled out at 2750LBs with a 150 hp engine. Again by your statement above about 240sx's with KA's it would have ruled the Z. Yet the 240sx with the KA pretty much hit the same power to weight ratio. Oh do not start down the road of the KA being a truck engine. That is the most popular myth of the import world. Fact is Nissan was sticking the engine in cars before they started sticking it in trucks.
Oh and since we have gone there you do realize that the beloved Corvette's LSX engine is in all kinds of trucks Chevy sells. Does that automatically make it a truck engine? No.

Also on the subject of engines, lots of different types. Some are high revving others are low revving . Usually lower revving engines have more torque and higher revving engines tend to favor HP. Ideally manufacturers try to strike a balance but in the end for a street driven car Now on a race car torque is not as important as the car is rolling around the track constantly in momentum. Here HP is crucial as it keeps the car rolling torque not as much.
So in the case of street cars Sports or not torque tends to be something you the driver will notice more. Its really what rockets your car off the line at a traffic light. Its really what give you that seat of your pants feeling.
In that case the KA was not a completely terrible choice for Nissan . It definitely has more torque than a stock SR. Stock SR's are anemic in the torque department.
So lets get back to the FRS/BRZ hmmm 2800lbs 200HP seems to fall right into both numbers that the 240sx Fastback/180sx ticked. Both cars were considered entry level Sports cars.
Oh and guess what the FRS/BRZ is a sporty looking fastback .

So really WTF the FRS/BRZ not sports cars? If you believe that you are smoking something good.
They are just not sports cars that get you or you like. But.... unfortunately for your sake they do qualify completely for the moniker of "ENTRY LEVEL SPORTS CAR".

[redline racer510]

Driftfreaq you like typing, I can tell lol.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

I know there are lots of numbers there, and reading must be very tough for you, but none of them are $30,000.

Cheapest one my local dealer has in stock is $28k. $10k more than any other Scion they have in stock.

http://www.subaru.com/ So, a WRX and A BRZ are about($400) the same price. The only model more expensive is the Tribeca.

I'm not seeing the value and feel like they are gouging on the price.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-performance-cars.html

The GC isn't much better though.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis-coupe/
"Shown at $34,600"

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Driftfreaq you like typing, I can tell lol.

Not so much like typing as I like dispelling misinformation with actual facts and history.
Something that a lot posters don't seem to know or have. It used to be different but those days are gone.

I will get called condescending for it, I will be called elitist and most likely many other things by those with less knowledge. Truth is you can't run from facts and you can't win without them. LOL

Welcome to this forum called Zilvia.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Driftfreaq you like typing, I can tell lol.

no, he just likes owning people with fact vs opinion.

it think its amusing as hell!

[irax]

I have been finding new BRZ/FRS for 25/28k all day long. Problem is non salvaged title FRS/BRZ used go for 24/26k all day long. And this really frustrates me. Apparently the car is so bad that even SALVAGED titles are going for 20k... Wow... I have never seen a "underpowered" "boring" "non sports" car sell salvaged for 5k off new sticker, or Used cars going for sometimes only $200 less than MSRP.


Please tell me who keeps saying the sales numbers are slowing down. Because I'd like to see the data, and if its true take that to a dealership to get them to go down on the price.... which they wont. It's just speculation.


BTW It never had to be fast to be a sports car, or a sporty car. It just has to handle. A car that can go fast in a straight line but can't make left or rights has no value as a sports car.

A MUSCLE car is a car that drives fast in a straight line.
A SPORTS car is a car that drives fast around the turn.
A RACECAR does both.
A SPORTY car on the other hand drives quick around turns and gets great gas millage

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by irax

Please tell me who keeps saying the sales numbers are slowing down. Because I'd like to see the data, and if its true take that to a dealership to get them to go down on the price.... which they wont. It's just speculation.

funny you mention because autoblog posted an article today regarding that topic

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/21/t...ing-worldwide/

[redline racer510]

Has there been any info on the drivetrain or is nissan gonna tell us when they unveil the production model? How come no one took pics of whats under the hood?

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by redline racer510

Has there been any info on the drivetrain or is nissan gonna tell us when they unveil the production model? How come no one took pics of whats under the hood?

The drivetrain possibility has been discussed in the IDX thread and here. It was mentioned. We won't get the full details though till it reaches official production stage.
Oh and they weren't about to let use even get near lifting up the hood. LOL Again that was discussed already as well. You really need to do your homework before asking questions. I.E. actually reading the threads before posting.

Sorry man but you left the door wide open with your comments. lol

[redline racer510]

Ok shutting the door, its getting cold.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Cheapest one my local dealer has in stock is $28k. $10k more than any other Scion they have in stock.

http://www.subaru.com/ So, a WRX and A BRZ are about($400) the same price. The only model more expensive is the Tribeca.

I'm not seeing the value and feel like they are gouging on the price.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/
http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-performance-cars.html

The GC isn't much better though.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis-coupe/
"Shown at $34,600"

Where are you? My buddy just sold his RX-8 and bought an FR-S last week for 25.4k. They put a $200 premium for the white so the other colors where going for 25.1k

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by irax

I have been finding new BRZ/FRS for 25/28k all day long. Problem is non salvaged title FRS/BRZ used go for 24/26k all day long. And this really frustrates me. Apparently the car is so bad that even SALVAGED titles are going for 20k... Wow... I have never seen a "underpowered" "boring" "non sports" car sell salvaged for 5k off new sticker, or Used cars going for sometimes only $200 less than MSRP.


Please tell me who keeps saying the sales numbers are slowing down. Because I'd like to see the data, and if its true take that to a dealership to get them to go down on the price.... which they wont. It's just speculation.


BTW It never had to be fast to be a sports car, or a sporty car. It just has to handle. A car that can go fast in a straight line but can't make left or rights has no value as a sports car.

A MUSCLE car is a car that drives fast in a straight line.
A SPORTS car is a car that drives fast around the turn.
A RACECAR does both.
A SPORTY car on the other hand drives quick around turns and gets great gas millage

The only person that ever said the sales are bad is some European Toyota rep that is capping for bmw diesel engines in more platforms and that the GT86 doesn't sell enough to warrant the synergy of other platforms such as sedans, verts, shooting break wagons, luxury variants etc in the way Nissan has with the FM

[future]

Originally Posted by irax

I have been finding new BRZ/FRS for 25/28k all day long. Problem is non salvaged title FRS/BRZ used go for 24/26k all day long. And this really frustrates me. Apparently the car is so bad that even SALVAGED titles are going for 20k... Wow... I have never seen a "underpowered" "boring" "non sports" car sell salvaged for 5k off new sticker, or Used cars going for sometimes only $200 less than MSRP.


Please tell me who keeps saying the sales numbers are slowing down. Because I'd like to see the data, and if its true take that to a dealership to get them to go down on the price.... which they wont. It's just speculation.


BTW It never had to be fast to be a sports car, or a sporty car. It just has to handle. A car that can go fast in a straight line but can't make left or rights has no value as a sports car.

A MUSCLE car is a car that drives fast in a straight line.
A SPORTS car is a car that drives fast around the turn.
A RACECAR does both.
A SPORTY car on the other hand drives quick around turns and gets great gas millage

So by that idea a Mustang which is a muscle car can't turn. So is a Mustang no longer a muscle car? That car has been raping STIs around the tracks for a couple years already

[irax]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

The only person that ever said the sales are bad is some European Toyota rep that is capping for bmw diesel engines in more platforms and that the GT86 doesn't sell enough to warrant the synergy of other platforms such as sedans, verts, shooting break wagons, luxury variants etc in the way Nissan has with the FM

Exactly!

Originally Posted by future

So by that idea a Mustang which is a muscle car can't turn. So is a Mustang no longer a muscle car? That car has been raping STIs around the tracks for a couple years already

A factory solid rear axle car, is out turning a factory AWD CAR ?
REALLY ? So you mean to tell me that .92g acceleration is greater than .96g ?

Originally Posted by vanish1

funny you mention because autoblog posted an article today regarding that topic

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/21/t...ing-worldwide/

First did you read the article or do I need to highlight it for you ?

Second. anyone who gives a shit how well a car sells in a market other than their own is a fucking idiot.

For other people who want to TLDR Here are the cliff notes.


Toyota's European Vice President of Research and Development, Gerald Killman.

"A faster version of that car would be at the top of most people's wish lists, but like the cabriolet, it is hard to justify a business case to push either model into production based on the current sales," Killman told AutoExpress. "Personally, I think that engine could use a little bit more," he added.

US Vice President of Scion, not a R&D VP.

It may not be that the US is one of those major markets, though. Scion's Vice President, Doug Murtha, tells Autoblog that his brand is happy with the sales of its version of the GT86, the FR-S. 18,000 units were sold last year, which Murtha says is "generally in line with original expectations for the car."

"We can only comment on the sales success of the FR-S and not its variants in other markets, in the US, Scion deems the FR-S successful. Considering the FR-S sales performance and the sports car's brand impact, the FR-S is fulfilling its mission for the Scion brand," he went on to say. "Given its success in the US, Scion continues to study ways to enhance and improve the FR-S' appeal in the market as this sports car's lifecycle matures."

In conclusion the FRS is a successfull car in the US. The GT86 platform selling a total of 26k both Scion and Subaru. I know it wasn't a runaway hit like the 240sx was


So again... who from Toyota/Subaru from the SALES branch is saying the sales are slowing down ? Also, the fuck is spreading the rumors of "For every 100 FRS there is 1 BRZ" ?

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by irax

A factory solid rear axle car, is out turning a factory AWD CAR ?
REALLY ? So you mean to tell me that .92g acceleration is greater than .96g ?

Should be interesting when the 2015 Mustang comes out as its supposed to have IRS standard.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/17/2...-axle-sort-of/

Not big on Mustangs, but seems they are trying to pull all the stops with this next model year.

[vanish1]

Originally Posted by irax

Exactly!



First did you read the article or do I need to highlight it for you ?

relax jabroney, I posted that link to AGREE with FR-S sales being fine and to show real #s to back up this debate

sorry you got butthurt ASSUMING the wrong thing

[irax]

Originally Posted by vanish1

relax jabroney, I posted that link to AGREE with FR-S sales being fine and to show real #s to back up this debate

sorry you got butthurt ASSUMING the wrong thing

You are right, my bad. I misinterpreted the context in which you posted it in.