Corner Carver Suspension Setup-Street Use Only

[Scope240sx]

Here's my car's specs:

93 s13 coupe
Tanabe front/rear strut bars
Tein inner/outer tie rods, tein tension rod
Nismo power brace
Stock front sway bar/end links
Whiteline rear sway bar/end links
DMAX SS coils
New OEM flca from pdm couple years ago as well.
Tires are on stock alloys 205/50/15 on some Federal 535 SS, which is just an awful tire. Much prefer something like a Dunlop DZ101.
Anyway, the engine is a KA w/ aem short ram, dc 4-2-1 headers, hi flow cat, rs*r exMag exhaust. Clutch is a act stage 1 w/ chromoly flywheel. Engine is perfect for my taste.

The car is extremely balanced. I drive SoCal twisties like many of us, primarily Little T.

Up next is what is laying around my house & I am going to install are as follows:
Jonnie fraz fender brace
Kazama ruca/toe
SPL traction rod
Whiteline front sway bar
Tomei short shifter/ steering wheel,
I can update this when I have installed the suspension components.

For the people feeling mooshy suspension, I would try simple things. Front/rear strut bar if that's not on the car, tension rods will help with braking, corner entry position & maintaining control of the car mid/corner- the exit. Nismo power Brace further helps with turn in, braking & a very correctable feeling when you do encounter understeer, which won't happen often.

I've been helping a good friend of mine build up his s13. I had him buy my old AGX/tanabe gf210 combo (which is kick ass for shocks/springs), also gave him some Kazama read subframe spacers which make a stock 20 year old car feel a hell of a lot better.
Hopefully this was somewhat helpful for people. I know there are snobs out there ..

[WOOTEN]

subbed for future research...

[e1_griego]

It's not about being snob, it's about doing it right the first time

The AGX setup that you gave your buddy probably has better damping than most of the cheapy coilovers.

A big front bar with some proper endlinks is the other thing I would recommend, esp. because you can get away with less spring rate that way.

[Ilya]

S13 Vert

Stance Pro Comp Coilovers
Circuit Sport Arms
Michelin Hydroedge 215/60/15 Tires on SE
Factory Alignment

Car handles well, however, living in a city such as Houston the ride quality is awful even on full soft. Here the roads are all made of cement instead of asphalt. The one mile I do get of asphalt, I LOVE IT. Car feels a bit bouncy otherwise. Is there a good way to know if spring loading is set right?

[e1_griego]

Again, it's the shocks, not the springs.

[BoostSlideWayz]

Just the strut bars atleast in my opinion made a difference on my coupe when i first bought it. I still have stock suspension though, but just the strut tower braces i bought for 50 bucks front and rear have held up great over the years.

I'd personally recommend strut tower braces for the first purchase of any cars body re enforcement upgrade. its simple, cheap and noticeably effective.

[Future240]

Anyone know if the Nismo arms justify the price hike over the regular ones? The advertising says they are stiffer but by how much. I'd like to get new rear and front LCAs and I am curious as to how that would translate to driving.

[WOOTEN]

Ok, so Im a little confused... I have ran Energy Suspension Bushings in a lot of cars, none being an S13. So why are they so bad exactly?

[e1_griego]

Because poly moves in one axis and the control arms in a 240 move in more than one axis.

A poly bushing will just bind and tear or, in extreme cases, can snap the control arm.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Dont bother wasting your money on Nismo arms. From what I saw while I was in japan, they were just beefier version of the stock ones with slightly harder bushings. Nothing to really write home about, you probably wont even feel the difference if you bought brand new OEM arms instead.

[WOOTEN]

So what bushings should a guy upgrade to? I have done some searching but I cant seem to find a good upgrade / replacement bushings for the 23 year old car sitting at my shop?

[e1_griego]

IMO,either stock rubber or go spherical.

[heychris]

I vote sphericals.....As far as arms go buy cheap and upgrade the links to QA-1 ' s ...

Ch

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[e1_griego]

The cheap stuff is m16x2.0 instead of 5.8-18 like bv/spl. The aurora rod ends in that pitch are like $50/ea.

That's why I stick to bv and spl.

[mechanicalmoron]

OP, the first thing you need to do is put the car at stock height, or as close as your coilovers go, (make sure to take care of breaking and re-torquing at the new height, all bolts on bushings) and see what it fixes. Then go from there.

I bet all your problems go away. Except hitting bumps hard... you have harder suspension than stock, you're going to feel bumps harder than stock.

I expect part of the problem is the rear sway bar making it too stiff compared to the front, combined with the LSD and height. And it may be overpowering your coils, and setting up nasty resonances or something. Got a stock one? And it sounds like the rear might not have been aligned properly after lowering, and may have a bad toe setting.

I had my car about the level you do, I used it as a starting point because tein reccomended it (for my shitty basics without independant anything adjustment - I don't know yours, or what they have), and it totally sucked - the damping was less effective at preventing bounce, but was more bone jarring on bumps. I raised it to one inch below stock, and it feels great. Unless you have a comfortable daily, and can have your 240 as a cool (and scary, and spine-shattering) weekend car, I don't think you should be that low. Besides, a daily has to navigate things like speedbumps, and unfamiliar parking lot entrances, and other crap - it's stressful to constantly be worrying what part of your car is going to be ripped off, and planning to prevent it, and having to do rediculous slow manuveres to prevent damage.

Also, drive it more. Find a parking lot if you feel so unsafe, if you don't know what it's limits are you can't even safely NOT push it's limits, right?

[WOOTEN]

Truth^

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[CaptainVlad]

Originally Posted by zooopreme

owned Stance GR+ and Pro Comp (Swifts),

How did you like them? I also bought them for around 1800-2000, which is what the Konis would have cost... I really wish I had gone with Koni's, but did not know what I know now.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

Dont bother wasting your money on Nismo arms. From what I saw while I was in japan, they were just beefier version of the stock ones with slightly harder bushings. Nothing to really write home about, you probably wont even feel the difference if you bought brand new OEM arms instead.

If that is the case I would just go with OEM. I figured I'd do a mix of adjustable and OEM arms. Ruca/Flca, tie rod, traction rod, all oem, ruca toe and tension rod spl. tie rods, spl/ z33 inner outers.

Bushings, subrame poly bushings. Steering rack, new rubber bushings.

I know I need new tires. I was thinking

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

I'm trying to decided if I should go taller and wider, just taller, or just wider.

I want at least a 400 thread rating, with minimum of AA traction rating.

[e1_griego]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

OP, the first thing you need to do is put the car at stock height, or as close as your coilovers go, (make sure to take care of breaking and re-torquing at the new height, all bolts on bushings) and see what it fixes. Then go from there.

I bet all your problems go away. Except hitting bumps hard... you have harder suspension than stock, you're going to feel bumps harder than stock.

I expect part of the problem is the rear sway bar making it too stiff compared to the front, combined with the LSD and height. And it may be overpowering your coils, and setting up nasty resonances or something. Got a stock one? And it sounds like the rear might not have been aligned properly after lowering, and may have a bad toe setting.

I had my car about the level you do, I used it as a starting point because tein reccomended it (for my shitty basics without independant anything adjustment - I don't know yours, or what they have), and it totally sucked - the damping was less effective at preventing bounce, but was more bone jarring on bumps. I raised it to one inch below stock, and it feels great. Unless you have a comfortable daily, and can have your 240 as a cool (and scary, and spine-shattering) weekend car, I don't think you should be that low. Besides, a daily has to navigate things like speedbumps, and unfamiliar parking lot entrances, and other crap - it's stressful to constantly be worrying what part of your car is going to be ripped off, and planning to prevent it, and having to do rediculous slow manuveres to prevent damage.

Also, drive it more. Find a parking lot if you feel so unsafe, if you don't know what it's limits are you can't even safely NOT push it's limits, right?

Sway bars don't effect ride quality.

Lower ride height shouldn't play a part in ride quality either (at least on his setup where the spring perch is adjustable so you're not limiting travel and riding the bumpstops) but obviously effects handling because the geometry starts going bad after you lower more than a couple inches.

And let me reiterate that non-compliance and overly stiff/bouncy is not 'performance.' A good shock will still ride ok with stiff springs.

[Future240]

e1_griego you mentioned an alighment earlier. Right now I feel like my toe is off since my car wants to follow grooves in the road. Would you recommend close to stock for alignment or something else. (keeping in mind this car drives 64 miles round trip a day for work)

[e1_griego]

I'm not really sure what a stock alignment is any more.

In my daily driver s13, I run

Front: -2.5* camber, 0 toe, 7* caster
Rear: -1.5* camber, 1/16* toe in

I should probably take more camber out, but I have a 12 mile round trip commute, and the one time I want to put r-comps on I don't want it to suck.

-2/-1 camber shouldn't be too aggressive on tire wear for you.

[DJ-of-E]

if you're selecting tires, how much in corner carving are you looking into? Tires pretty much do more than half of what you can handle on the corners.

If it's dry and wet conditions, I would consider BRIDGESTONE RE-11A or DUNLOP ZII.

[e1_griego]

If he's commuting 60 miles a day, I don't know that I'd pick top-tier summer tires.

Michelin Pilot Super sports are good all around, as are continental DW. And those will wear a bit better vs the top tier stuff, and still give good wet/dry performance.

The problem here is compromise. You can't have a tire that does it all.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

If he's commuting 60 miles a day, I don't know that I'd pick top-tier summer tires.

Michelin Pilot Super sports are good all around, as are continental DW. And those will wear a bit better vs the top tier stuff, and still give good wet/dry performance.

The problem here is compromise. You can't have a tire that does it all.

I understand here is what I am looking for. Imagine if a tire had three criteia. Traction, Wear, and Price. Each category affects the other.

1-3 where 3 is best traction, best wear, highest price

I see a no hold bar performance tire as
traction 3, wear 1, price 3

crappy tires
tracion 1, wear 3, price 1

I want a combo

traction 2, wear 2, price 2

[e1_griego]

Just get 595s like everyone else.

[zooopreme]

Originally Posted by CaptainVlad

How did you like them? I also bought them for around 1800-2000, which is what the Konis would have cost... I really wish I had gone with Koni's, but did not know what I know now.

I think they're good but not worth the price that they are going for. I personally do/did not have enough seat time with my car or any car with 8611's so I can't compare but I liked the Pro Comps. Dual damping adjustment for me is an overkill. I couldn't justify owning them so I sold them because all I really needed were some quality shocks and springs to match application.

I can't remember the settings I ran but I used them for both drifting and one autocross event. They held up fine and I got what I wanted out of them for drifting. For autocross, I didn't set up my car the way I was advised to and the car didn't drive the way I wanted it to.

The only feature that Stance has over a Koni application is that off the shelf it comes with independent height adjust ability. That's about it but people have found ways to make Koni's height adjustable. Sure, it takes effort in sourcing or fabing parts but I think overall quality shocks really make a big difference. If you're sponsored by Stance and you get them at a low price/free, that would be the only reason why I would run them over Koni.

So if you have the money to get Koni's, get them. I go nuts whenever friends tell me they're leaning away from getting Koni's because they want to get an off the shelf application. Even if it is for street application, Yellows are still a lot better than a lot of garbage that I see people running lol

[Future240]

I have to wonder now. Is there an off the shelf application that requires no modding (ie 3000gt blisteins) that has damping that is as good or almost as good as Koni's that is height adjustable?

[e1_griego]

KW Clubsports are probably the only thing. Or ASTs.

Both are quite a bit more expensive.

[DJ-of-E]

Originally Posted by Future240

I have to wonder now. Is there an off the shelf application that requires no modding (ie 3000gt blisteins) that has damping that is as good or almost as good as Koni's that is height adjustable?

slightly "below" koni yellows, but not by much, you need to work with ODI @ FEAL SUSPENSION as a local to get exactly what you want out of the car on the suspension. He'll literally spend hours with you to make sure you get the most out of your $1500 coilovers.

Since you're on the otherside, Fortune Auto does the same, but you have to drive to Virginia.

[Trinidrift3]

Here is my s13 set up:
vlsd
pbm gen 1 coilovers (very low)
pbm flca/tension rod combo
oem tie rods
suspension technique swap bars
spc ruca, toe arm, traction arm
energy suspension steering rack bushings
megan strut bars
16x7 +18 front 205/50 30psi
17/8.5 +45 rear 225/45 30 psi
-1.5 camber front
-1 camber rear
0 toe all around
don't remember castor but it's close to stock

i drive grip on the mountains and drift on this setup. it has the best of both world. the pbm coilovers are too stiff and will be changed soon. causes bounce. also the car produces close to 400whp so i'd prefer if it squatted a bit more. this setup grips, is very predictable, and gives great feel.

i don't know about s14's but s13's are very dependent on the rear swaybar interms of understeer and oversteer.
i suggest adding a solid steering column bushing for response. and possible subframe bushings and a tension rod brace. also tire type, size, and psi make a huge difference. i get 225/45's for free so i tried to set the car up around them