Debt Ceiling Deal?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

Yeah I mean really, back in the 30's didn't the US fall short on owing Japan some oil, causing Pearl Harbor? The US is known for doing whatever it wants.

Uh no, Japan invaded China, raped. Nanking and the US said "FU that's some sick shit were not down with that" and cut off the oil supply.

[Silverbullet]

I really feel like the whole debt cieling thing isn't as serious as media likes to play it. Hasn't debt cieling been rasied every year?

Originally Posted by tricky_ab

So you don't think there's economic doom in the in coming future?

Fuck this, I'm off to invest in gold...

its a tarp. When there are TV commercials and scam companies (such as the company that made the "college is a scam" video) pushing hard on gold, its apparent its a bubble at this point.

Originally Posted by Dolph_KYAS13

IMO china will go down with America because they have loaned the states lots of cash. haha.

Originally Posted by S14DB

Get ready for Red Dawn 2, China invades the US to get it's debts paid!

We actually owe China hardly anything. Only 8% of our debt goes to China. Its hyped up by the media because its the most amount of debt we owe to a single country. The majority of our debt is owed simply to ourselves.

[bb4_96]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

I really feel like the whole debt cieling thing isn't as serious as media likes to play it. Hasn't debt cieling been rasied every year?


its a tarp. When there are TV commercials and scam companies (such as the company that made the "college is a scam" video) pushing hard on gold, its apparent its a bubble at this point.





We actually owe China hardly anything. Only 8% of our debt goes to China. Its hyped up by the media because its the most amount of debt we owe to a single country. The majority of our debt is owed simply to ourselves.

You speak the truth sir.

1. Buy Inflated gold
2.
3. Profit

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

its a tarp.

[slowvia]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

The majority of our debt is owed simply to ourselves.

More specifically the Federal Reserve.

-Do not cut military spending. They buy all their shit from us manufacturers, and GI's blow most their money stateside.
-Start collecting dues from everybody instead of just the top breadwinners.
-Stop televising economic doomsday.
-Give capital hill an unpaid suspension for fighting in the schoolyard

We SHOULD cut military spending. Were fighting three undeclared-wars right now that we honestly have no business in.
When FDR was in office the wealthiest of Americans payed around 80-90% tax and they still had enough money to build ridiculous mansions in the Hamptons. STOP SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE, THEY MAKE MORE, THEY PAY MORE. PERIOD.
I entirely agree that the media (liberal and conservative) is out of control and markets everything as doomsday, its getting pretty ridiculous.
I dont know if we can do that last bit, the majority of politicians money really doesnt come from us (taxpayers).

Cut the asinine military spending, and stop giving free money to Israel please. Also, start taxing the rich pieces of shit who pay less taxes than I do even with my mediocre income.

Agreed. End these pointless occupations in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq. We dont need to be world police. Let the world figure it out on their own.

perfectly choreographed bullshit

Yup.

There is a reason socialism has never worked.

Oh rly?
China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And do you even know what that means? Because America could not be further from a socialist regime. We are die hard capitalists by evidence of the gap between the rich, the poor and the middle class. Hell, its that we even have those classes that defines us as capitalists.
I personally believe that we could do very well under a Democratic Socialist society. Go read some more about socialism before you argue my point.

Normally I'm not a huge fan of Obama, but I think he's made some genuine efforts to compromise.

I totally agree. I think this is where Obama is really showing his leadership. Hes not losing his shit when it could be so easy to do so. Hes calm cool and collected and just trying to do the right thing for Americans. Not what I figured would happen back when he was elected.

Ok thats all for now.

[slowvia]

Ill just leave this here.
Inflexible GOP should listen to Reagan on debt - CNN.com

[Mrpopo]

China is communist not socialist. There is a reason people flee from china, Cuba, Venezuela, and north Korea to claim political asylum in America. Look at Greece, I'm sure they are loving socialism. Open your eyes and learn some real history.
A man should be able to keep what he earns and do whatever he wants with it. No one owes anybody anything because they are down on their luck. America has always been a charitable nation taking care of our own but capital hill has taken that charity and turned it into a requirement now. Be real and quit living in a fantasy world

[rc1honda]

It's all a ponzi scheme. A Bernie Madoff to the nith degree. Our debt is really owed to the Federal reserve which is a independent corporation. The Fed give us that money at a interest anyway so all the money ever printed was already debted to us.

Raising the debt ceiling to cut spending and ultimately reduce debt is fucking laughable. You can't pay off debt with more debt. These guys have no intention of ever reducing the national debt. The shit is about to hit the fan so right now is a big deal. But the minute they raise the debt ceiling it will be business as usual.

In about 2 years we will need to raise it again and again and again. Until the debt hit's 20 trillion and the government raids your bank accounts and gold vaults will the American people wake up. The biggest ponzi scheme of all time will have runs it's course and the American economic bubble will collapse and then we can start to rebuild.

When we do raise this ceiling nothing is going to change. Nothing. All it will do is buy time enough for these politicians to get rich until the next batch needs their debt ceiling raised too.

[slowvia]

Originally Posted by Mrpopo

China is communist not socialist. There is a reason people flee from china, Cuba, Venezuela, and north Korea to claim political asylum in America. Look at Greece, I'm sure they are loving socialism. Open your eyes and learn some real history.
A man should be able to keep what he earns and do whatever he wants with it. No one owes anybody anything because they are down on their luck. America has always been a charitable nation taking care of our own but capital hill has taken that charity and turned it into a requirement now. Be real and quit living in a fantasy world

Im not going to argue because you and I will never agree. Doesnt necessarily make you or I wrong.
But ultimately we will never be out of debt because yes, the Fed leases every American dollar to the American people at interest. Until we end the Fed, we will all be held prisoner.
By the way the debt ceiling being raised is a common thing that has been going on without debate for years. Regan raised it 17 times.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by slowvia

When FDR was in office the wealthiest of Americans payed around 80-90% tax and they still had enough money to build ridiculous mansions in the Hamptons. STOP SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE, THEY MAKE MORE, THEY PAY MORE. PERIOD.

Are you retarded or are you just regurgitating utter bullshit from your 11th grade retarded teacher?

FDR was the hero that dragged out the depression, not the savior. In fact he was the spark that created this entire entitlement infero that is sucking the air out of us today

WWII and the mass expansion of American Industry ended the depression.

FDRs "tax the rich 90%" us what created the tax loop-hole off-shores bank account shot we have today as well. Tax revenue dramatically dropped exertions he raised taxes and the crippelled blue-blooded asshole could not figure out why.


You want to fix this country's tax system? It needs a more pragmatic approach. Sure the top 10% have 90% of the wealth, but they also pay 80% of the taxes. However the bottom 55% PAY NO TAXES and receive 90% of the tax money in the forum of welfare, entitlements and taxes returns ($4,500 income credit earned wtfbbq).

Everyone should pay a flat 25%. That it, no more, no less. No returns, no loop holes, no deductibles...25%

Now everyone has a vested interest in what shit costs and how we spend our money.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

I really feel like the whole debt cieling thing isn't as serious as media likes to play it. Hasn't debt cieling been rasied every year?

The issue isn't the debt ceiling but our debt rating. You can only have so many credit cards before the bank kills your credit score.

If the US loses our AAA rating that means interest rates explode. Banks loan you money at 3% to buy a house because they get it for .7% from the Fed.

If the Fed is now charging the banks 8%, and they charge you 11% for that same mortgage...

You just went from paying $100,000 in interest to $485,000 for the same god damn $200,000 house.

How does a 17-20% interest auto loan? With rates like that it's 1978 all over again and you think companies and employment us struggling now... shit

[Toi]

I have no clue why they cannot come to an agreement. I could care less though, I didn't put any of those douche bags in office.

I hate politicians, they get way to many benefits (start cutting there), their pay is ridiculous, why are the tax payers making these people millionaires?

Anyway let em bicker, its not hurting me!

[axiomatik]

Boehner really has it together. I don't know why he is working so hard to iron out a deal with the Tea-partiers in his Party. A deal that the Tea Party likes won't pass the Senate and won't be signed by the President. He should stop wasting everyone's time, stop showboating on these 'walkouts' and actually hammer out a deal with the Democrats that will pass both houses and get signed by the Pres. I haven't seen the Republicans make a single concession in all these talks. They are holding the American Economy hostage.

[duffman1278]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Are you retarded or are you just regurgitating utter bullshit from your 11th grade retarded teacher?

FDR was the hero that dragged out the depression, not the savior. In fact he was the spark that created this entire entitlement infero that is sucking the air out of us today

WWII and the mass expansion of American Industry ended the depression.

FDRs "tax the rich 90%" us what created the tax loop-hole off-shores bank account shot we have today as well. Tax revenue dramatically dropped exertions he raised taxes and the crippelled blue-blooded asshole could not figure out why.


You want to fix this country's tax system? It needs a more pragmatic approach. Sure the top 10% have 90% of the wealth, but they also pay 80% of the taxes. However the bottom 55% PAY NO TAXES and receive 90% of the tax money in the forum of welfare, entitlements and taxes returns ($4,500 income credit earned wtfbbq).

Everyone should pay a flat 25%. That it, no more, no less. No returns, no loop holes, no deductibles...25%

Now everyone has a vested interest in what shit costs and how we spend our money.

I understand how you feel about not always going after the top richest people in the US, but what frustrates me is companies like GE get away with not owing taxes and instead actually recieve money for their tax returns. And it's not even a little, they recieved over 100 million dollars. And many big companies, even if they do pay taxes pay very little.

[slowvia]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Are you retarded or are you just regurgitating utter bullshit from your 11th grade retarded teacher?

FDR was the hero that dragged out the depression, not the savior. In fact he was the spark that created this entire entitlement infero that is sucking the air out of us today

WWII and the mass expansion of American Industry ended the depression.

FDRs "tax the rich 90%" us what created the tax loop-hole off-shores bank account shot we have today as well. Tax revenue dramatically dropped exertions he raised taxes and the crippelled blue-blooded asshole could not figure out why.


You want to fix this country's tax system? It needs a more pragmatic approach. Sure the top 10% have 90% of the wealth, but they also pay 80% of the taxes. However the bottom 55% PAY NO TAXES and receive 90% of the tax money in the forum of welfare, entitlements and taxes returns ($4,500 income credit earned wtfbbq).

Everyone should pay a flat 25%. That it, no more, no less. No returns, no loop holes, no deductibles...25%

Now everyone has a vested interest in what shit costs and how we spend our money.

No I dont think Im retarded, thanks for the concern though.
Here is where your argument gets a little tricky. Do the wealthy pay more in taxes than the middle class? Well that depends on how you look at it. In terms of the amount of money they actually pay, yes they pay more than middle class families. However, what Im upset about is the fact that they pay a smaller percentage in taxes. They actually pay a smaller percent of their gross income than I do, and I work a part time minimum wage job.
Personally I feel cheated that I pay more of a percentage of my pay check to taxes making less than 15K a year than someone who brings in over 7 figures. What I want to see is the wealthiest of Americans paying a larger percentage of their income towards taxes than I do.
And what I was implying by you make more you pay more is quite simple. Take sales tax for instance, you wouldnt expect to pay less sales tax on something that costs $1000 than something that costs $1 now would you?

[rc1honda]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Are you retarded or are you just regurgitating utter bullshit from your 11th grade retarded teacher?

FDR was the hero that dragged out the depression, not the savior. In fact he was the spark that created this entire entitlement infero that is sucking the air out of us today

Everyone should pay a flat 25%. That it, no more, no less. No returns, no loop holes, no deductibles...25%

Now everyone has a vested interest in what shit costs and how we spend our money.

Fucking A brochacho . But the The Lend-Lease was a stroke of pure genius by FDR. Kept factories open and made it so there were jobs waiting for the baby boomers when then got back stateside.


There is so many angles of interest and debate on the debt crisis shit it almost umpossible to understand it all. Between entiltments, socialism, fractional reserve banking, derivates, defaults, social security, US treasury bonds and a capitalist ruling elite how the fuck can a normal person have any semblance of insight into what policy is the most logical approach to save a dying economy?


Where are all our visionary political and financial leaders of yesteryear? Off making billions with hedge funds and junk bonds?

[S14DB]

Apple cash on hand: $76 billion. US Treasury: $74 billion. - CSMonitor.com

[lflkajfj12123]

Originally Posted by slowvia

no i dont think im retarded, thanks for the concern though.
Here is where your argument gets a little tricky. Do the wealthy pay more in taxes than the middle class? Well that depends on how you look at it. In terms of the amount of money they actually pay, yes they pay more than middle class families. However, what im upset about is the fact that they pay a smaller percentage in taxes. They actually pay a smaller percent of their gross income than i do, and i work a part time minimum wage job.
personally i feel cheated that i pay more of a percentage of my pay check to taxes making less than 15k a year than someone who brings in over 7 figures. What i want to see is the wealthiest of americans paying a larger percentage of their income towards taxes than i do.
And what i was implying by you make more you pay more is quite simple. Take sales tax for instance, you wouldnt expect to pay less sales tax on something that costs $1000 than something that costs $1 now would you?

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　

[slowvia]

^^Very constructive of you. Thanks for quoting and highlighting your favorite parts!

[lflkajfj12123]

Actually I just made cliff notes for everyone else!

[slowvia]

Dont know if you guys have heard yet (probably though) but they reached a deal today. Of course it isnt a very good one, it includes NO new incomes, it only includes cuts. I think this article does a pretty good job of breaking it down to terms we can all understand.
Debt deal: Politicians win, middle class loses - CNN.com

[Mrpopo]

Actually slowvia, the less you make the lower your tax bracket(percentage). Anybody over 200k/yr is paying at least 45% taxes. You telling me 45% of your pay goes to taxes? Check the tax code. You can't cheat the system unless your the government. The prez starts all this class warfare crap because it benefits him come election time. I like to deal in facts not fairy tales of the man oppressing the middle class. Quit watching msnbc. We need a flat tax/fair tax. That way there is no exemption or "cheating" the system. Taxes are supposed to generate revenue to run a small directed government not to support people who are not working. That is what the wording in the amendment. We(government) need to stop spending.

[slowvia]

Originally Posted by Mrpopo

Actually slowvia, the less you make the lower your tax bracket(percentage). Anybody over 200k/yr is paying at least 45% taxes. You telling me 45% of your pay goes to taxes? Check the tax code. You can't cheat the system unless your the government. The prez starts all this class warfare crap because it benefits him come election time. I like to deal in facts not fairy tales of the man oppressing the middle class. Quit watching msnbc. We need a flat tax/fair tax. That way there is no exemption or "cheating" the system. Taxes are supposed to generate revenue to run a small directed government not to support people who are not working. That is what the wording in the amendment. We(government) need to stop spending.

Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mrpopo]

Exactly. Read the chart income goes up and taxes go up not the other way around

[slowvia]

Yup. Youre right. Im not gonna sit here and be an asshat when Im called out.
But the other thing you need to look at is how much the wealthy get in tax breaks compared to the middle class. Yes they do pay a higher percentage, but they have much better breaks than I do.

[axiomatik]

Originally Posted by Mrpopo

Actually slowvia, the less you make the lower your tax bracket(percentage). Anybody over 200k/yr is paying at least 45% taxes. You telling me 45% of your pay goes to taxes? Check the tax code. You can't cheat the system unless your the government. The prez starts all this class warfare crap because it benefits him come election time. I like to deal in facts not fairy tales of the man oppressing the middle class. Quit watching msnbc. We need a flat tax/fair tax. That way there is no exemption or "cheating" the system. Taxes are supposed to generate revenue to run a small directed government not to support people who are not working. That is what the wording in the amendment. We(government) need to stop spending.

What are you talking about? You obviously aren't talking about just income tax, because the income tax rate tops out at 35% for those making $370k+. And that is a marginal tax rate, not their effective rate.

For someone making $200k/yr, their marginal tax rate is 33%, but their effective rate (the real percentage they would pay) is 25.5%. And that is without any deductions or credits. That is the maximum income tax they would have to pay, $51,115 taxes on $200k income.

Now lets imagine they bought a $750k house and put 30% down. They now get to deduct all their mortgage interest through itemized deductions. Well, they will pay $25k in mortgage interest. Let's say they have a few other things they can itemize (charitable donations, etc), so their itemized deduction is $30k. Well, now their taxable income is just $170k, and they will pay $41k in taxes on their $200k salary, or 20.6%. Any other deductions or credits would further reduce their effective tax rate.

Interesting footnote: because the mortgage interest can be deducted, it is essentially the same as Uncle Sam subsidizing their interest payment by 33% (the tax rate they would have paid on that money if they hadn't been able to deduct it).

What about Warren Buffet? He is an investor, so most of his income is Capital Gains, not salary. He only has to pay 15% taxes on capital gains, so he probably pays a lower rate than a lot of middle-class people.

On a personal note, my wife and I have a combined income of about $115k. We own a home and have 2 kids. Last year we had to pay a little over $7,000 in income tax. So we only had to pay 7% income tax. Frankly, I think it is a little low.

[Mrpopo]

All tax breaks apply to everyone. It's not like you can say I can get a tax write off but you can't. If we did the same things all year but at different dollar amounts we could still apply for the same breaks. You can argue numbers and percentages all you want, but the fact is the IRS itself says that the top 10% of tax payers pay 90% of the nations taxes.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Mrpopo

All tax breaks apply to everyone. It's not like you can say I can get a tax write off but you can't. If we did the same things all year but at different dollar amounts we could still apply for the same breaks. You can argue numbers and percentages all you want, but the fact is the IRS itself says that the top 10% of tax payers pay 90% of the nations taxes.

And the top 10% make 99.5% of all the income.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by Mrpopo

All tax breaks apply to everyone. It's not like you can say I can get a tax write off but you can't. If we did the same things all year but at different dollar amounts we could still apply for the same breaks. You can argue numbers and percentages all you want, but the fact is the IRS itself says that the top 10% of tax payers pay 90% of the nations taxes.

I can't afford to buy a house, so I can't write-off interest on a mortgage payment.

[Mrpopo]

Fantasy world...wealthy people buys houses and cars all the time. That's tv for you. Wealthy people for the most art are very frugal that's why they have money. Not because they cheat the system or make money on the backs of the poor. The class envy has to stop. Get an education, get a good job, and save your money. Don't make stupid mistakes with money and you'll be fine. This economy isn't hurting some people because of that. I don't have credit cards and I don't have car loans. I make sure to keep three months pay saved at all times for emergencies. Do I wish I had more money? Sure, but I'm not going to grumble and complain and blame other people for not having it. Those people that have money earned it and I am not entitled to any of it. I'm sure you guys would love it if the government said they were going to take more of your money. Who do you think creates jobs in this country? Wealthy people with small businesses not big corporations that cut deals with the government like GE.