Mosque being built near Ground Zero

[slideslidegnarslide]

^^^ nicely done sir

[HalveBlue]

Much ado about nothing.

There's nut jobs in every religion.

Only the ignorant and hypocrites go around preaching about freedom while denying the same to those they don't like.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Wait... Terrorist are Muslims? Funny, never thought of it like that.... I need to watch more Fox News.

I thought it was agreed that the terrorists were Muslim Extremists?

[slideslidegnarslide]

^^is that a joke or no? im not sure

NOT flaming cause idk but it could be any one not just muslims maybe google the definition of the word? if it was a joke im sorry

[cc4usmc]

No..no joke. I'm not talking about all terrorists, just the ones that specifically pertain to this situation.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

I thought it was agreed that the terrorists were Muslim Extremists?

They were Al-Qaeda, they are not Muslims, they do not believe in Islam. Terrorist are terrorist, it does not matter what flag they wave or what religion they pretend to hide behind. Are you following my logic on this?

[HalveBlue]

Originally Posted by ineedone

They were Al-Qaeda, they are not Muslims, they do not believe in Islam. Terrorist are terrorist, it does not matter what flag they wave or what religion they pretend to hide behind. Are you following my logic on this?

In one word, NO.

It's a fact that all of the hijackers and planners of the 9/11 attacks were Muslim and driven by an extreme Wahhabist ideology.

[cc4usmc]

Originally Posted by ineedone

They were Al-Qaeda, they are not Muslims, they do not believe in Islam.

Where are you getting your information?


Isn't the mosque that the 9/11 terrorists used under investigation again?

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

In one word, NO.

It's a fact that all of the hijackers and planners of the 9/11 attacks were Muslim and driven by an extreme Wahhabist ideology.

Okay, so you are fine with calling the KKK Christians?

Find me one thing in Islam that supports Terrorism. They followed a perverted teaching of Islam, that is not Islam.

[cc4usmc]

Now we're playing word games. Sweet.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Where are you getting your information?


Isn't the mosque that the 9/11 terrorists used under investigation again?

Yes, they hid behind the facade of being Muslim. Terrorist are terrorist though, they are the same as the people who bomb abortion clinics, they are the same as the Oklahoma City Bomber.

What I am trying to say is that, it is dangerous when you put a religious label on a terrorist. Look at what it has done to this country, we (not myself, but a hefty % of people truly are) are afraid of moderates who want a community center.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Now we're playing word games. Sweet.

That is exactly it. Would you have even thought twice if they said they were building a multi-purpose building? or just a community center? No, this would not be an issue. In the area, there is a large population of Muslims, with businesses in and around the Ground Zero area. No one is talking about that, because it does not matter.

[cc4usmc]

I think you're afraid to put a religious label on a terrorist because you want to be politically correct. You can say that religion plays a part, but that's as far as you'll go. The fact of the matter is, these certain terrorists use the Muslim religion as the back bone of their cause, no matter how twisted the words are.

You can't look at two Muslim individuals and tell which one is a radical. They look the same, talk the same, smell the same. Just look at all the people that have popped up since 9/11 in support of them. You've got regular ass looking people trying to blow up Time Square.

I think the people in NY are just afraid that if this mosque goes through, it's just going to way for the wrong people to get in. Does that make any sense?

[fckillerbee]

the problem isn't religion....it's why it's being built.

when googling muslim mosque....the second link was "do muslims build mosque's on land that is conquered" Here was the answer to that question on WIKI

The Koran (018:021) states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

This is not a direct commandment to build on a place of victory, but there is a tradition of building mosques to celebrate or symbolize victory.

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels."

this should be why there is an argument about this....it's ethics.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

I think you're afraid to put a religious label on a terrorist because you want to be politically correct. You can say that religion plays a part, but that's as far as you'll go. The fact of the matter is, these certain terrorists use the Muslim religion as the back bone of their cause, no matter how twisted the words are.

You can't look at two Muslim individuals and tell which one is a radical. They look the same, talk the same, smell the same. Just look at all the people that have popped up since 9/11 in support of them. You've got regular ass looking people trying to blow up Time Square.

I think the people in NY are just afraid that if this mosque goes through, it's just going to way for the wrong people to get in. Does that make any sense?

No, that does not make sense, the people in NYC that are upset (which has been been blown completely out of proportion, most do not care), are because the news has drummed this up to be a 15 story Mega-Mosque that is a symbol that the Muslims conquered the US. The actual Mosque however, is one room in a very large community center.

You can look at anyone and never know anything about them. You can not tell who is a rapist, who is a racist, who is a terrorist. If you are afraid of brown people, just admit it. However, those fears are not reasonable or rational. Those type of views are the mainline views of hardcore racist, radicals, and people with medical conditions!

It is not about being politically correct, it is about the message. What people have popped up? They use religion to lure in young, impressionable minds, and then they brainwash them. Not with religion, but with hate. Twisted words are just that, twisted, nothing more.

[cc4usmc]

I wasn't aware it was a 15 story building. I tend to not follow the news because it gives me gray hair.

Is there any particular reason why the "community center" cannot be built somewhere else? Ya know.. farther away?

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by ineedone

Wait... Terrorist are Muslims? Funny, never thought of it like that.... I need to watch more Fox News.

numb nuts read my last line

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by fckillerbee

the problem isn't religion....it's why it's being built.

when googling muslim mosque....the second link was "do muslims build mosque's on land that is conquered" Here was the answer to that question on WIKI

The Koran (018:021) states: 'Build a building over them, their Lord knows best about them;' and those who prevailed in their affair said, 'We will surely make a mosque over them.'

This is not a direct commandment to build on a place of victory, but there is a tradition of building mosques to celebrate or symbolize victory.

"The al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is built on top of one of the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount. The former St. Sophia's Basilica, once the world's largest cathedral and orthodox patriarchal basilica, was torn down and replaced with the principal mosque of Istanbul. The Cordoba mosque in Spain was a former Christian cathedral. Muslims have engaged in this practice for centuries, symbolizing their victories over the infidels."

this should be why there is an argument about this....it's ethics.

...wiki... all I need to say.

How many Christian churches/cathedrals have been built around the world? Why were they built in those specific places? Again, it is a community center not a mosque.

And you are referring to customs that were in large practice by every civilization since the beginning of time. You are twisting a few phrases to fit the context you wish for them.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

I wasn't aware it was a 15 story building. I tend to not follow the news because it gives me gray hair.

Is there any particular reason why the "community center" cannot be built somewhere else? Ya know.. farther away?

Why? should we move all the Muslim stores too then? tell all the Muslims with food carts they are not allowed there either? Does anyone get upset with Catholic churches having schools in them? I mean they have serious problem with raping children... where are those protest?

Constitutionally there is nothing you can do about it, it is private property, and we have freedom of religion (which is over 2 blocks away from Ground Zero).

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

numb nuts read my last line

It was tongue in cheek, and gave me a reason to talk smack on Fox "News" sorry!

[cc4usmc]

Freedom of Religion isn't a pass to do whatever you want, wherever you want. I don't think it's unreasonable that the community should have a voice in it. They're not saying it can't be built, just not at that location. If I was in charge, I'd negotiate a reasonable distance away from ground zero and look for another building. They're not respecting the community, in my opinion.

Who knows, this entire thing could be a ploy to get new recruits to see how much people hate their religion.

[amdnivram]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

I think you're afraid to put a religious label on a terrorist because you want to be politically correct. You can say that religion plays a part, but that's as far as you'll go. The fact of the matter is, these certain terrorists use the Muslim religion as the back bone of their cause, no matter how twisted the words are.

You can't look at two Muslim individuals and tell which one is a radical. They look the same, talk the same, smell the same. Just look at all the people that have popped up since 9/11 in support of them. You've got regular ass looking people trying to blow up Time Square.

I think the people in NY are just afraid that if this mosque goes through, it's just going to way for the wrong people to get in. Does that make any sense?

completely agree, as much as people want to try to not label a group its just too compelling.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Freedom of Religion isn't a pass to do whatever you want, wherever you want. I don't think it's unreasonable that the community should have a voice in it. They're not saying it can't be built, just not at that location. If I was in charge, I'd negotiate a reasonable distance away from ground zero and look for another building. They're not respecting the community, in my opinion.

Well, you are wrong. Freedom of Religion allows for you to worship whoever you want. Freedom of Speech allows you to say whatever you want. We are not a "moral" country that tells people what to do based on others feelings. We are a country of laws. The constitution is a awesome thing!

There is no such thing as a "reasonable distance." Mosque all over the country are being protested against. Newt Gingrich, someone who has a chance to run for president mind you, said no mosque should even be built in the USA, until churches are allowed to be built in Saudi Arabia. We should abandon everything this country is founded on, and be held to the standard of a country that stones women for showing a little to much skin... Good call...

What they are doing, which is respectful to the community, is holding session where people who are truly upset about this are invited to come and talk with the developers. Funny how we do not hear about that. From what I have read, it has changed many peoples perspectives, and is the reason why you do not see NYC going ape shit (we only see the "news" and people who do not live in NYC making this a big deal). Mind you, before this project even began, they worked with other local community center, both Christian and Jewish, so that they could properly address the needs of the area. Yeah... crazy people man! They also have other rooms that will be used for other faiths to practice in. And a cooking school! http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm Before you reply, check it out for yourself...

Originally Posted by cc4usmc

Who knows, this entire thing could be a ploy to get new recruits to see how much people hate their religion.

Are you really serious? Look, the guy who is the Imam, the head honcho, works for the FBI. He goes the middle east to spread United States democracy and works to improve middle east - US relations. Trust me, we need and really like this guy. Shoot, even Bush liked him... the Jr one... Stop listening/watching Glenn Beck please.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by amdnivram

completely agree, as much as people want to try to not label a group its just too compelling.

I am guessing all your friends look alike?

[amdnivram]

Originally Posted by ineedone

I am guessing all your friends look alike?

hmm wrong guess. You just expect people to be completely open minded when thats just not how things are. I know its not accurate to say that all Al-Qaeda members are muslim, or that their views are what muslim and all other religious followers believe in. Even with this, people still stereotype because it easier than just saying everyone is different and that we know nothing of anyone.

i know this is a little off topic, im just trying to say that its easier for people to say that the terrorists in this case were muslim. Now a mosque is being built near this area and although i personally dont care, i can see why residents would. I really cant see why anyone would say that they cannot understand why the people are reacting this way.

[theboy]

WHOOO HOOOOOOO RELIGION FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think we all need to give it up. If you hate the idea, then you hate the idea. Stop hiding behind a comp screen and do something about it. Put the few things they dont allow around the mosque.

A.K.A. a strip club on one side and a bar on the other.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by amdnivram

hmm wrong guess. You just expect people to be completely open minded when thats just not how things are. I know its not accurate to say that all Al-Qaeda members are muslim, or that their views are what muslim and all other religious followers believe in. Even with this, people still stereotype because it easier than just saying everyone is different and that we know nothing of anyone.

i know this is a little off topic, im just trying to say that its easier for people to say that the terrorists in this case were muslim. Now a mosque is being built near this area and although i personally dont care, i can see why residents would. I really cant see why anyone would say that they cannot understand why the people are reacting this way.

Yes stereotyping is easy, but does that make it right? Good luck with your life if you live that way, I am sure you have made a lot of friends that way.

Of course I understand why some people would react this way. That is not the issue here though. Like I stated before, no one is saying that every Muslim business/vendor in the area should move out. The only reason people have gone all up in arms about this specific building is because people have been tricked into believing this is some sort of Mega-Mosque. Misinformation is a disease.

I expect reasonable people to realize that just because someone is a Muslim, does not mean they are terrorist. Muslim's were among the people killed on 9/11 as well. Again, before you make a judgment on the issue, read about what this building actually is.

[5pecialist]

Originally Posted by theboy

a strip club on one side and a bar on the other.

WERD. Someone needs to build a gay gym with glass windows that face the entrance to the mosque, so that the narrow minded have to see what they HATE so much each time they go to "pray". Next to that, a tribute to everything they hate about America: Women's rights, rock & roll, etc.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

WERD. Someone needs to build a gay gym with glass windows that face the entrance to the mosque, so that the narrow minded have to see what they HATE so much each time they go to "pray". Next to that, a tribute to everything they hate about America: Women's rights, rock & roll, etc.

lol cept for the fact that like half of america hates gays anyway...

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by 5pecialist

WERD. Someone needs to build a gay gym with glass windows that face the entrance to the mosque, so that the narrow minded have to see what they HATE so much each time they go to "pray". Next to that, a tribute to everything they hate about America: Women's rights, rock & roll, etc.

I thought all gyms were for the gays