Writeup: custom Koni and Ground Control coilover setup assembly

[Pblesh85]

is this an auto cross set up or drifting ? (I know you can get what ever valve & spring rates you choose)

How are these better than a good low price coilover(i.e. pbm, ect...) ?

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by Pblesh85

is this an auto cross set up or drifting ? (I know you can get what ever valve & spring rates you choose)

How are these better than a good low price coilover(i.e. pbm, ect...) ?

The categorization of certain coilovers as "grip" or "drifting" is mostly a myth . . . all cars can benefit from better suspension, regardless of what they're used for.

There are smarter people than me that can explain it better, but my view is the level most drifters are at, the coilovers they have really don't matter. Drifting is, technically speaking, the sport of pure car control for car control's sake- not for the sake of outright speed around a track (why do you think there's no clock?). Most of the crappy coilovers out there have high spring rates with insufficient damping or improper damping characteristics. Since most people just wanna get sideways for the fun of it, however, the suspension flaws are simply irrelevant.

Better coilovers come with better dampers that supply enough compression and rebound damping to allow springs to compress and decompress gradually in a controlled manner, rather than simply slamming up and down (no damping at all, bouncy) or worse . . . springs so stiff that they don't compress at all, turning the car into little more than a shopping cart.

I'll let someone smarter than me take over.

[EchaKqulo]

Cool writeup, after riding it let us know what you think!!!

[Spoolpigeon]

wow! excellent write up!

quick question though, do the aftermarket shock bodies allow for more wheel clearance? and do they let you place the shock lower to get more travel out of it? I have an off-the-shelf koni/GC setup and those are my two complaints. with the car on the ground the shock is towards the bottom of its travel. and there is very little clearance between the spring perch and the tire sidewall. it kinda limits me to how wide a tire i can stick in the front.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by Spoolpigeon

wow! excellent write up!

quick question though, do the aftermarket shock bodies allow for more wheel clearance? and do they let you place the shock lower to get more travel out of it? I have an off-the-shelf koni/GC setup and those are my two complaints. with the car on the ground the shock is towards the bottom of its travel. and there is very little clearance between the spring perch and the tire sidewall. it kinda limits me to how wide a tire i can stick in the front.

From what other owners have said, there's way more space with these housings.

[civicsi2]

been running the 8611's for about the same time as mccoy has. I got 8611's up front with 550lb GC kit and Koni Yellows in the back with 400lb GC's. I saved money buying used yellows.
Had D2's, KTS, and Tein Flex's on my 240s. these are by far the best setup I think I can get for the money. I'd spend around 2000 for a comparable coilover setup. I've done a bunch of track day with these and every time someone rides with me they are amazed at how well they perform.

I would say these are more ideal for track day, autox, road racers, cause most drifters won't spend the money. as i wouldn't either if i was planning on hitting shit with my car.

my most recent picture with V3 housings, i'm not looking to get the car as low as possible, so ride height is not a problem especially since the shock travel is somewhat low with 550lb springs.

This is full camber, 17x9 +22 RPF1's, 245 re-o1r.

[OptionZero]

I just realized a blindingly simple solution to the barrel-shaped springs problem. I have two barrel shaped springs and two consistent diameter springs.

I can just put the barrel shaped ones in the back, where there's loads and loads of clearance. Gah. I'm stupid.

[Crazyirish]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I can just put the barrel shaped ones in the back, where there's loads and loads of clearance. Gah. I'm stupid.

Do you really want your 8k springs in the back and your 6k up front?

[OptionZero]

fuck

i was solely thinking in terms of length

forgot all about rate

shoot me

[EchaKqulo]

^^ But you can try it to se how is the feeling of the car (6k front and 8k on the back) and adjust bound and rebound of the shocks towards your desire. If you don't like it then change them again.

[timtiminy]

i wanna do this setup, wish it was a bit cheaper though...

[McCoy]

Originally Posted by timtiminy

i wanna do this setup, wish it was a bit cheaper though...

Used GC hardware and tein plates, 8610's up front and koni yellows out back is going to be the most cost effective way to go. Probably in the $1500 range if your a good shopper... I ran this setup for a while, minus the adjustability, it rode as nice as the 8611F/8610R setup I have now.

[timtiminy]

what do you think of the upper camber plates sold by delubozparts on ebay? ~$90 shipped...
oh and what koni yellows for the rear would you use if using z32 rear uprights?
also what is the model of 8610 series you would recommend, since i noticed the numbering goes 8610-xxxxSPORT

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by timtiminy

what do you think of the upper camber plates sold by delubozparts on ebay? ~$90 shipped...
oh and what koni yellows for the rear would you use if using z32 rear uprights?
also what is the model of 8610 series you would recommend, since i noticed the numbering goes 8610-xxxxSPORT

Def uses the deluboz plates, so they seem fine. I believe others on NissanRoadRacing.com use them as well.

I don't know which Koni yellows are best for z32 rears. Purely speculation on my part, but an S13 might be able to use the Z32 application, since i believe they are the right length. An s14 is different, so i have no idea. Best to call up Koni?

As for the 861x series . . .

Front:
8611-1257 or
8610-1436

Rear:
8611-1258 or
8610-1436

DOUBLE CHECK WITH VEILSIDE180SX BEFORE ORDERING, no sense ordering the wrong one

The only difference is the length, i think.

[plusONETEN]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Front:
8611-1257 or
8610-1436

Rear:
8611-1258 or
8610-1436

Im not sure since i have not done this, but I think you migh have one or more of these mixed up

(just posted stroke cuz im lazy, but all the dimensions match from what I see)
Front:
8611-1257 143mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

Rear:
8611-1258 158mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

from
http://www.koniracing.com/8611.cfm

but i dont know what the correct ones would be... theres not actually a 8610 with the exact dimensions of the 8611-1258 either....

i cant seem to find the 8610s for less than 200 each though! if anyone knows where to find them cheaper let me know

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by plusONETEN

Im not sure since i have not done this, but I think you migh have one or more of these mixed up

(just posted stroke cuz im lazy, but all the dimensions match from what I see)
Front:
8611-1257 143mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

Rear:
8611-1258 158mm stroke
8610-1436 143mm stroke

from
Koni Racing - ITT

but i dont know what the correct ones would be... theres not actually a 8610 with the exact dimensions of the 8611-1258 either....

i cant seem to find the 8610s for less than 200 each though! if anyone knows where to find them cheaper let me know

8610s are 200 everywhere. 8611's are 300.

Part numbers from Nissan Road Racing

If you want to confirm, PM veilside180sx there.

If another s14 owner has this setup and wants to chime in . . .

[veilside180sx]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

8610s are 200 everywhere. 8611's are 300.

Part numbers from Nissan Road Racing

If you want to confirm, PM veilside180sx there.

If another s14 owner has this setup and wants to chime in . . .

It's actually the 1257 and 1436 that I use for the rear S14 as well now.

[plusONETEN]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

8610s are 200 everywhere. 8611's are 300.

from that first post, i was hoping they'd still be 200 a set, not each...

looks like im just going with the regular yellows on back rather than the inserts...

hope they can handle 450lb spring rate...

[ronmcdon]

Great write-up, thanks for the comprehensive presentation!

correct me if I'm off, but aren't the 8611 shocks with the 2-way externally adjustable rebound & compression?
How many ppl would even benefit from that feature?

Seems the the 'off the shelf' koni yellows would be a much cheaper solution.
IIRC, a set of ots regular yellows would be around $500.
maybe saving a few hundred off the total price.

That could be a more cost effective alternative,
if fine tuning the rebound & compression isn't a necessity.

I've had the OTS Koni yellow w/ GC w/ custom rate setup on my old civic & miata with great results.
Then again, the cars were only for occasional track/autoX events,
not built for competition use.
Maybe most of us here could probably skimp on the 8611 shocks for regular Koni yellows.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Great write-up, thanks for the comprehensive presentation!

correct me if I'm off, but aren't the 8611 shocks with the 2-way externally adjustable rebound & compression?
How many ppl would even benefit from that feature?

Seems the the 'off the shelf' koni yellows would be a much cheaper solution.
IIRC, a set of ots regular yellows would be around $500.
maybe saving a few hundred off the total price.

That could be a more cost effective alternative,
if fine tuning the rebound & compression isn't a necessity.

I've had the OTS Koni yellow w/ GC w/ custom rate setup on my old civic & miata with great results.
Then again, the cars were only for occasional track/autoX events,
not built for competition use.
Maybe most of us here could probably skimp on the 8611 shocks for regular Koni yellows.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe the Yellow doesn't let you go as low . . . if that doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't matter

[ronmcdon]

Maybe I missed something, but what was the benefit of the housings?
Does it have to do with lowering and/or inside/outside clearance?

Just contemplating potential cost-cutting measures & the respective trade-off's.
8611 are indeed badass shocks however you look at it though.
would they require more frequent rebuilds?

Need to get back reading more stuff on that Nissan Road Race forum.
Good stuff there!

[OptionZero]

The housings go lower and allow for more travel when low, they also provide more inside clearance.

Plus measuring and cutting up housings yourself requires labor and tools. If you can do it yourself, more power to you . . . but its more than i can do.

[ronmcdon]

Got it, so the housings are pretty much the solution to the whole Koni/GC compatibility issue with 240's from the beginning.
Not a cheap part, but I can certainly see it's value!

Be interesting to see how much lowered your car is, and comparative driving impressions.
Pls keep us informed.

Thanks!

[Rittmeister]

Richard's housings (front) work with 8610s and 8611s. I don't know if they work with yellows. 8610 are single-adjustable and less expensive than 8611.

On the rear of my S13, I used Eclipse shocks (p/n 8041-1208Sport). These are externally adjustable, WITHOUT needing to remove them from the car. They have adjusters at the top of the strut shaft just like the 86xx stuff. The S13 yellows must be removed from the car to adjust. For a few more bucks the Eclipses work great. I have no idea if they'd work with an S14 though - the Eclipse shocks are a few millimeters shorter than the S13 shocks, which doesn't matter when the car's lowered. I understand the S14 shocks are substantially longer though, so they might not work.

[plusONETEN]

Rittmeister, you got any info or pics of the eclipse shock install in the rear? im wondering what the lower perch looks like... can you add a threaded sleeve to them for height/corner weighting? Do they require custom upper mounts or something so the adjustment knob fits?

Id love to have easy access to damper adjustment for all four corners, if possible and I dont want to spend a million bucks... might be just what ive been looking for...

[Silverbullet]

for yellows, you can just use the stock housings.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

for yellows, you can just use the stock housings.

To clarify: the yellows are inserts in the front, stand-alone in the rear

[gunluvS14]

brilliant thread! thumbs up

[NINJASPY]

I have heard of people using ots front koni's in the rear so they can be externally adjustable.

I am also thinking rebuilding a megan street coilover set and putting koni's in them, anyone have any experiences? or measurements of the ots yellows?

[inertiaticism]

Some points to add, I have a Koni setup on the front of mine and spent a bit of R+D time making it work and learned a bit.

The Deluboz plates will work, but I had a lot of trouble getting them to bolt on, after I added the upper springplate to the assembly.
The little shouldered spacer they give you to center the strut shaft in the pillow ball made it so that I could not get thread engagement on the upper strut bolt. I had to make my own spacers, but this may be because of the upper spring plates I used.

If you're cheap, you can do this for about 1/3rd what the OP spent, but his setup is really the way to go if you can save the cash to do it right.
Doing it cheap means one of two things, you're either doing it ghetto as hell (my original setup) or you're going to end up doing some trial and error fitment and making some stuff like I am now.
I used ebay coilover sleeves, threw all of the hardware away but the sleeve itself and the little steel ring they give for the sleeve to sit on, the spring itself is garbage and you shouldn't use it, imo.
But the sleeves themselves are suprisingly good quality and haven't crossthreaded or seized in a year of weather exposure and occasional daily driving. Note, if you're really serious about suspension setup, the cheaper sleeves are coarser in thread pitch than the GC and would probably make it difficult to get the car cornerweighted really well.

Really though, if you're not willing to waste a bunch of your time playing with it, just buy new stuff.
I just saved a shitload of money by buying worn out dampers and having them rebuilt locally, which I was told could not be done but was able to get done for $100 by a circle track shock guy.
They work well now, even if they die soon, I paid so little for them it's no huge loss.
I'll admit that my setup doesn't perform quite as well as OptionZero's, as his is really the best way to do it and uses very good stuff.
Veilside180sx's bodies look WAY better than my current ones, worth the coin for sure imho. Mine are strong, but not the prettiest looking.
I'd have gotten his if I had seen them before I did mine.
However, if you can weld or know someone who can and don't mind doing a bunch of pain in the ass parts gathering from mcmaster and trial and error fitting, you can get a decent setup for less than you'd spend the cheapest of ebay coils if you can get a hookup on used dampers.
I've probably got about $400 in mine total and am pretty happy with the outcome.