Occupy Wall Street

[superbike81]

Originally Posted by DriftN00b

you're such an ignorant idiot. To everyone else, once you realize your own economic interest you will stop saying such stupid thing.

My own "economic interest" is WELL met by Wall Street and the rich running this country. If we had morons like these protesters running the country it would be horrible.

[WanganRunner]

Someone making $300k isn't rich, at least not the kind of rich the Dems are talking about lately. A "millionaires tax" would really just be a narrowing of the spread between the capital gains tax and the income tax, not more income tax, as people above a certain worth level either don't have jobs and thus don't have income tax or have jobs as PE sharks or hedgies wherein they are paid in carried interest taxed as capital gains rather than as income.

People who live off investments are "rich", and these people are taxed at a far lower percentage rate than the middle or mid-wealthy classes. Their tax rate maxes at 15% if we are talking capital gains, and them they are eligible for many more deductions that we are not.

[superbike81]

I made significantly more from capital gains over the last 5 years than I made from my military salary each year. While it would cut into my profits some, I do believe that capital gains should be taxed higher than 15%.

[92SEric240sx]

Originally Posted by superbike81

Granted, our country isn't doing so well managing our money right now, but that's because of the people who can't understand the fact that this decade long war is destroying our country.

This ^^


Come on politicians, is it financially feasible to supply a war that is 6200 miles away. ( 6204 Miles from Washington DC to Baghdad)

We got Saddam Hussein, we got Osama Bin Laden, and many other high priority personnel, let's get out. Bring our soldiers home. Spend some of that defense budget on developing alternative energy, that way the oil exporting countries won't have us by the balls

Many great empires have fallen because they tried to expand their reach beyond what they could afford to handle, let's learn from others mistakes.

Originally Posted by superbike81

I still agree with the idea that welfare checks should come with mandatory drug tests. The lines would be so short!

This sort of^^^

But I'm sure we can all agree that the last thing we want is more drug related stabbings/robberies because Tyrone Biggums can't get his fix. (Chapelle's Show reference to a crackhead, explained so no one gets offended)



The one thing that a lot about people in this country need to understand is that Life does not owe you anything. Life is hard, for most people. If you want to feel sorry for yourself, compare the poor of our country to the poor of unestablished nations.

In those countries, if you don't make it for yourself, you die. If you can't afford to take care of the babies you've had they die. If you go missing, the government doesn't send out search parties, doesn't waste their resources. Life is very cheap,

The United States government provides you with a high value for your "life" and will protect your stuff for you. That is to say there is a correct scale of crime and punishment that is enforced upon offenders, should they ever tread on you the wrong way.

In my eyes, ^^^that is all^^^ the government owes you, the rest is up to you


Oh yeah, and in response to that video>>> Neo-Hippies. Nuff said

[Otto347]

Originally Posted by Matej

America started going downhill when it began caring about poor and stupid people.
Now China has the longest bridge and Dubai has the tallest building, because they do not care how many expendable workers die building things that will still be awe-inspiring generations from now.

America needs to go back to its glory days of raising sky scrapers, NASA, and always trying to one-up everyone else.
Go back to recruiting the brightest minds and brilliant scientists from all over the world, instead of illegal immigrants and 'refugees' who are only causing a social backlash.
Everyone got way too soft, lazy, and sensitive. Everything is over-regulated. It is quite depressing.


I totally have a plan on how to do my part in getting western society back on track to progress. Who can lend me a few billion dollars to start my own media group?

^^^This...

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

the top 25% control almost 90% of the wealth in this country. yeah, they totally shouldn't pay more than the other 75%, you're right. America is so abusive to the cartoonishly wealthy.

So who should control it? You?

You don't even know what wealth is.

just to be clear, you place your empathy with Scrooge McDuck instead of Launchpad McQuack, am I getting this right?DO THIS?

Scrooge makes me money, Launchpad doesn't.

Originally Posted by orion::S14

I guess that's the point - They (the "rich") do pay more, WAY more.

As a percentage, not just dollars.

They pay enough (in dollars) that 4 out of 10 people DO NOT HAVE TO PAY TAXES AT ALL.

...

Here's a realistic scenario:

"Guy A" makes $60,000/year...and pays a nominal tax rate of 12% (after the standard deduction, child tax credits, etc...).

"Guy B" makes $300,000 year...and pays a nominal tax rate of 30% (after deductions, exploited loopholes, etc...)

As an individual, the rich guy is paying $90,000/year in taxes...and the middle class guy pays $7,200.

So the rich guy pays 11 times as much in taxes compared to the middle class guy.

5 times the income, but ELEVEN times as much in taxes?

How is that not "paying his fair share"...???

Rich guy pays 2.5 times the taxes as a percentage, and $82,800 more in dollars. Yeah, he should pay MORE. He's clearly got it easy.

EDIT: And that example covers 97% of all taxpayers. Only ~3% made more than $250,000 last year.

- Brian

The whole stink about "fair share" comes from the idea that wealth is fixed, that economics is a Zero-sum game where if you win, someone has to lose. It's a pie that doesn't expand, so if you get more pie than someone else, it's because you took more than your "fair share". "Tax the rich" stems from this idea that since you took more than your fair share of the pie, you should pay increasingly more taxes as you get more of the pie. It's only fair.

Whether Bill Gates gets taxed at 35% or 50%, what does it matter to any individual? It's not like it goes directly into your bank account. By the time you see it, your "share" is probably a fraction of a road reflector.

[duffman1278]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

So who should control it? You?

I don't think he means they make too much money, I believe what he's trying to get at is that those top people are pretty much running our country and controlling our politicians because of all the money they give them in endorsements, lobbiest, etc. And it's become so bad that the middle class is slowly starting to die out. Our government is favoring these billionaires and while they make more, we (the middle and lower class) continue to make less. Our government doesn't seem to be listening to us.

And as for having the average joe call the shots in the economy, obviously we don't want that, we need smart and well educated people to help us out of this mess however, it becomes a problem when their solutions are only to help favor the rich.

[Otto347]

Originally Posted by duffman1278

.............pretty much running our country and controlling our politicians because of all the money they give them in endorsements, lobbiest, etc.

Yup, its not the best candidate its whoever has the most money.

[imotion s14]

Originally Posted by duffman1278

I don't think he means they make too much money,

No but he's using the tired old zero-sum argument. When you put wealth into a context like that and frame the question in that manner. It's a supposition that suggests that their share of wealth is obtained unjustly.

If that wasn't the case, why else would anyone care if Bill Gates was worth 60 billion? Unless you believed that to be the case.

I believe what he's trying to get at is that those top people are pretty much running our country and controlling our politicians because of all the money they give them in endorsements, lobbiest, etc.

And of course the politicians are innocent. They're just being controlled by the puppet masters. Or maybe they're willingly colluding with monied interest?

Of course the people who cry the most about lobbying want more expansive government. They never bothers to ask WHY monied interest are so interested in influencing government? Maybe it's because they seek to influence government power to gain protection in the market place?

Think about it, the government has shown that they see no limits to their power to interfere in the market. There is no authority that gives them the power to bail out private enterprise. But that's exactly what they did.

Now wouldn't you want this type of protection where you can make a shit load of profits but if you place the wrong bets, the government comes in and saves you? What company wouldn't want that kind of protection from market discipline?

That the more power you give government the more they want to throw money at it to influence government.

And it's become so bad that the middle class is slowly starting to die out. Our government is favoring these billionaires and while they make more, we (the middle and lower class) continue to make less. Our government doesn't seem to be listening to us.

You're right they are, but who's fault is that really? Our own damn fault for looking towards government for government solutions. The market had a solution for those billionaires who made the wrong bets. All the gains they saw during the boom was going to be wiped out. That's what should have happen. Instead it was too big to fail. Basically saying hey, make all they money you can, even if you bet wrong, you're too big to fail. What do you think that's going to do? Is it going to make companies be more cautious or do you think they're going to be less cautious in a market place where it's WIN-WIN for them?

The middle class is getting squeezed because jobs are leaving due to capital flight. It's going to Asia and it's not because of slave labor. Does S.Korea, Japan, Malaysia and Singapore have slave labor? If capital chases labor like the left says then why didn't it flee to Africa? Why did it go to Asia? The magical ingredient is Asia has capital. Labor chases capital. People left rural small towns because all the capital was in the big city. People moved south because the capital left the rust belt.

A certain sided of the political spectrum expects corporations to be socially responsible to employees. Just hiring someone involves assuming a whole slew of legal liabilities that can cost a company thousands in legal bills. Yet if a employee wants terminate their relationship with the company, they can do so just like that.

And as for having the average joe call the shots in the economy, obviously we don't want that, we need smart and well educated people to help us out of this mess however, it becomes a problem when their solutions are only to help favor the rich.

It has noting to do with smart people a lot of smart people made some very bone headed decisions during the boom. You can have 1000 smart people in a room planning everything and they wouldn't be able to figure out how to make the economy work. We know central planning of the economy doesn't work. But we keep trying over and over and the results have always been the same. Why do we continue to make the same mistakes over and over again?

If it was possible for smart people to allocate resources efficiently, we wouldn't need a market economy to determine where capital should.

The only solution that we know works is to get government out of the way, let the people who failed fail and let the people who made the right decision buy up all the assets from the people who fail and start over.

[tricky_ab]

Of course there's going to be more poor, but that's inevitable simply based on the distribution of wealth ALONE. Do you really see multimillion/billionaires going out of their way to fix the broken systems that got some of them wealth?

There's going to be a group of people that feel they're 'owed' something, and there's a group of people that feel they are without fault completely. All of the above are wrong. This does not stop the fact that the system right now is completely fucked up and needs changing. It's exceptionally aggravating when people try to jump from one extreme to the next. That's not how things are...Stop it!

[superbike81]

I'm honestly glad we have people like this. They are so against "the system" that they won't ever use it to their own advantage. This leaves that much more opportunity for me to capitalize on it for my own gain. Call me selfish, but I'm looking out for number one here (my family) so I will capitalize on Wall Street and the real estate market as much as I possibly can.

If these guys did manage to somehow completely change the way things work, people will still find a way to capitalize on the new system.

[bardabe]

[revcyanide]

ITT: people who think they are rich and want to brag about it, while spouting bullshit out of their ass.




lol you don't even know what real wealth is.

And this isnt about you, as a normal person investing in wall street.

That's what it's there for! more power to you!

What this is about is he MAIN playing in wall street doing shady dealing, KNOWING it will screw companies over. but not caring because they know their companies are so large america cannot let them fail, and will help them out.


If you are using wall street correctly, you are very much positively influencing our economy, and you are rad.

However if you are a CIO/CEO doing insider trading, and destroying our economy because of it, YOU are whats wrong with this country, and what these protests are against.