Well I'll be damned..

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by HaLo

I am running A032R, which are Race tires. I also ordered some Hoosiers and will see what I can do with those.

I have a stack of hOOsiers and a stack of A032Rs sitting next to each other, the Hoosiers are much wider.... so good luck!

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by yudalicious

Basically I think this is very interesting, as it seems zilvia.net isn't the only forum having trouble to explain WHY wider tires are faster, hope this helps.

<rant on>
What I find humorous is that there are years and years of data that support that wider tires are better. People who autocross, don't really question this because it's widely accepted, and is BACKED UP by data. Seems there are lots of people who like to throw out formulas and use the results to prove a point, when they haven't accounted for all the variables.

If grip is simply a function of contact area and weight, then wouldn't you increase the car's weight to increase grip?

Anyway, like has been said before, a wider tire puts less stress on the sidewall, which in turn allows you to run less air pressure, which in turn increases the contact area. Basically what Rennen said.
<rant off>

Sorry for the rant. Yudalicious, don't take it personally, it's just frustrating to see some people (not you) try to justify themselves without testing what they are saying.

[jmauld]

For anyone who doesn't believe that wider is better, find a friend with staggered tires of the same brand. Do an autocross run on them, then rotate them front to rear. Repeat that run and then decide for yourself.

[yudalicious]

What I find humorous is that people KEEP insisting on telling me that there's data to prove wider tires are better when all along.... I'VE AGREED... read my above posts...all I asked was better explanations... not an outlash against those who have responded with good explanations, jmauld, rennen, etc., just my own little rant on why people don't read/comprehend what they read...

Originally Posted by jmauld

<rant on>
What I find humorous is that there are years and years of data that support that wider tires are better. People who autocross, don't really question this because it's widely accepted, and is BACKED UP by data. Seems there are lots of people who like to throw out formulas and use the results to prove a point, when they haven't accounted for all the variables.

If grip is simply a function of contact area and weight, then wouldn't you increase the car's weight to increase grip?

Anyway, like has been said before, a wider tire puts less stress on the sidewall, which in turn allows you to run less air pressure, which in turn increases the contact area. Basically what Rennen said.
<rant off>

Sorry for the rant. Yudalicious, don't take it personally, it's just frustrating to see some people (not you) try to justify themselves without testing what they are saying.

[ghambino]

Originally Posted by yudalicious

obviously it works seeing how many ppl opt to use this set up, I was just curious on WHY it works, as it seemingly goes against physics
(and ghambino, what you said is still wrong, more patch DOES not mean more grip, think an R compound tire w/ a smaller contact patch vs. Wal mart tire w/ bigger contact patch. AND wider tires DO NOT always mean more total patch area, maybe more "horizontal" patch that helps w/ lateral stability.)
I'm not arguing against you autocrossers that run this set up, obviously there's alot more to it then simple physics, I am just simply wondering why.

You sound like a very intelligent person, but you are confusing the hell out of me. You say you agree to the theory that bigger is better, yet you say I'm still wrong. The reasons for why it works or why it's better have been pretty much explained by those who replied to this thread. Maybe the answers you are looking for are not in text. I would recommend you do what Jmauld said and find out for yourself.

-Tires contact patch area does not vary with its width

- If we take a narrow tire and make it wider, the contact patch stays the same size, but gets wider and shorter.

I think what this is saying is if you take for example 205/50/16 and stretch it you still have the same contact area but the tire gets shorter. However at the same time you could just use a 235/45/16 which is alot wider but just as tall)

If I'm wrong can you explain to me why? I'm just trying to understand just as much as you are.

[yudalicious]

ghambino, your first post read
"I would guess to increase the amount of tire that makes contact with the road, which results in more grip."
which isn't very clear, that was what I was refering to; your statement could be read in different ways (while ultimately it is true that wider = better times, it also could be interpreted as inaccurate by everything written above), however, this is not a personal attack, I was merely trying to get the point across that all I wanted was more reasons of "why," not "just because there's data."

[ghambino]

No its all good, I'm sure its not a personal attack, but are you going to get different size tires and test them or are you convinced?

[yudalicious]

Originally Posted by ghambino

No its all good, I'm sure its not a personal attack, but are you going to get different size tires and test them or are you convinced?

well, I never really doubted the collective experience of everyone(wider=better), but maybe at a later time I can actually try it on my own! Though not this summer, MCATs is looming over my head, so I'll be taking a break from cars to focus on that first.

[MovinUp-1]

You should see your lap time drop by almost a full second with the hoosier tires. The only time I've seen the A032s do well was at an autocross in Houston in August. The hoosier tires got too hot and greased up.

[HaLo]

Originally Posted by MovinUp-1

You should see your lap time drop by almost a full second with the hoosier tires. The only time I've seen the A032s do well was at an autocross in Houston in August. The hoosier tires got too hot and greased up.

Thanks man! It's good to see some people stay on topic.

I have a good idea on how Hoosiers perform... But I won't be running them all season... They'll die before.

[nlzmo400r]

how long to the a032's last you Halo? I dont have any problem making the azenis last an entire season, and we run all winter as well. How long the a032's last for you? Also, do you think i coudl run them on the street?

[HaLo]

I used the A032s only for Solo II and they are still good.. they could last 2 racing seasons.

But mine were not street driven.

[nlzmo400r]

hmmm. Well now that i'm in SM,i may look into getting another set of rims for the track,and getting some ao32's

[HaLo]

See, in SM, A032R aren't really competitive. They are an entry level R-compound. You'd be better off with Victoracers... (V700)

[nlzmo400r]

around here we have NO competitive SM cars. I ran my last event on my ES100's and placed 2nd in my n/a 240 only .2 behind an sr powered hatch. Theres no competition in SM here, its almost too easy

[DRFT180]

^^Just wait Rob, I haven't ran since January

Bradley

[nlzmo400r]

and brad, you probably have the best set up vehicle out there (Not counting allen's car), but stil SM is supposed to be a big jump from STS because of the availability of race rubber (i.e Rcompound), I have no doubt that you'll be winning SM, however (not to take away from you at all), but if everyone else ran Rcompounds like they 'should' in SM, itd be a different story. And the reason for taht is the strict rules of SCCA, half the people in SM (you and I for instance) are only there because of RUCA's (which are pretty much NO advantage in autoX) and CF hoods, not because we have 250whp and hoosiers ya know?

[HaLo]

Originally Posted by nlzmo400r

and brad, you probably have the best set up vehicle out there (Not counting allen's car), but stil SM is supposed to be a big jump from STS because of the availability of race rubber (i.e Rcompound), I have no doubt that you'll be winning SM, however (not to take away from you at all), but if everyone else ran Rcompounds like they 'should' in SM, itd be a different story. And the reason for taht is the strict rules of SCCA, half the people in SM (you and I for instance) are only there because of RUCA's (which are pretty much NO advantage in autoX) and CF hoods, not because we have 250whp and hoosiers ya know?

Wow, I wish it would be that easy in my region...

[hurleyboi514]

no you dont, what fun is that?? im in between two regions SCR and CCR (basically N. Carolina and S. Carolina). anyways, the SCR region isnt competitive at all, i attended 6 of the 8 points events and tied for first. i won 5 of the 6 i went and took a second place when a friend co-drove. CCR is alot more fun b/c we have some fast cars up there. a fully prepped neon, 2.5RS, SE-R, a Mini-S. lots of fun cars to play with. actually, on my ooold victoracers, i only got 4th, im usually 1st or 2nd. the mini and 2.5 are new, and are on Avons (FAAAAST TIRE). ive missed the last two points events though b/c i dont have any race tires. oh well. i want a tire i can autox and road race and havent found one i like yet. i either kill them at the track, or they cant hang in autox.

[North240]

Add my name to the "not much SM competition in my area" list at least in the Maine area, when i go down to NER i expect a little more. I'm boosted but i still just run ES100s, I'm expecting Halo to give me a good ass-whoping at one of them.
Auto-x can create an odd problem for some, if your really into it, you have to mod accordingly so you dont get bumped up a few classes for adding a few little things. I know i have made that mistake before.

[nlzmo400r]

well i did the same thing. I used to run STU, but then i got RUCA's to correct my rear camber and that bumps me to SM. Thats what i think is ridiculous, i know a line must be drawn somewhere, but i think its ridiculous.

[HaLo]

Yup, NER is not that bad of a region. But I think I can do much better there next time around. I dunno when that's gonna be, but for sure, I am attending the National Tour event in NER. I am wondering which other events I will attend. Let's say I have tires issues this month and I hope my "blow-by" issue was simply a human error...

[hurleyboi514]

i want more race tires so bad... i wish tire rack had a GT4 package. pay 5 grand and get new tires whenever you need them. id roll on A048R's all the time!

[HaLo]

Hehe... I just got confirmation...
4x 245/45R16 Hoosier A3S04 coming my way!!! woot!

That will kick some serious ass. Along with 4 x 245/45R16 Advan 032-R and 2 x 225/50R16 Advan 032-R...

I am slowly getting there.

[Hikarispeed]

Originally Posted by HaLo

Hehe... I just got confirmation...
4x 245/45R16 Hoosier A3S04 coming my way!!! woot!

That will kick some serious ass. Along with 4 x 245/45R16 Advan 032-R and 2 x 225/50R16 Advan 032-R...

I am slowly getting there.

HaLo, once you get to test those out, please do a review on them. I'm dying to know. I am planning to switch from my 225/50/16 Avons to those 245 Hoosiers for next year. Why didn't you get the A3S05's? Are they not available yet?

[hurleyboi514]

the avons are supposed to be very quick...

halo, what are you doing with all those A032R's? wanna sell em??

[nlzmo400r]

^wondering the same thing, id be very interested. Which would be the best as a street/and autox tire out of the ao32/48? I thought the 48's came in 18's only?Also, Halo, why do you have Hoosiers AND a032?

[Hikarispeed]

Originally Posted by hurleyboi514

the avons are supposed to be very quick...

halo, what are you doing with all those A032R's? wanna sell em??

They are quick. I'm the only one that runs them in my region. Avons don't come in 245's though. I am going to gamble with that "wider is better" guess.

[HaLo]

I am keeping the A032 because I won't last the whole season on the hoosiers.

and i got a3s04s because they were in closeout at 126$ each!!!

[hurleyboi514]

yah, they are hella cheap right now... the 05's will be out soon. so get a lead on the hoosiers, and cruise to a championship win on the A032R's? niice strategy, Jean Todt...