2008-2009 NBA Season Thread

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by revat619

My $.02 is simply that i DO NOT want shaq back in LA.

He is NOT a teacher of any usable skill in today's league, his window of usefulness is CLOSED and he is good for only 25-30 minutes a night and won't even play back to backs.
For the kind of money he will continue to demand, he needs to SHOW THE FUCK UP.
It's laughable to me that he still thinks he is WORTH it. It is time for him to start in on shutdown mode, he is not what he used to be, nor is he what he thinks he is.

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

He is NOT a teacher of any usable skill in today's league, his window of usefulness is CLOSED and he is good for only 25-30 minutes a night and won't even play back to backs.
For the kind of money he will continue to demand, he needs to SHOW THE FUCK UP.
It's laughable to me that he still thinks he is WORTH it. It is time for him to start in on shutdown mode, he is not what he used to be, nor is he what he thinks he is.

hes still averaging 17.5 pts, 9 boards and 1.5 blocks per game. better than 80% if not more of the leagues centers. most of the bigmen in the leauge dont even get half of that in stats and get paid comparable money (Dampier, Foyle ect) theres hardly any centers in the leauge who would be worth more than him. howard, yao, bosh and bynum (IF he stays healthy) are the only few who stick in mind. plus in this point of his career he is gearing himself for the playoffs. ill guarentee his production/minutes go up in the playoffs.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

hes still averaging 17.5 pts, 9 boards and 1.5 blocks per game. better than 80% if not more of the leagues centers. most of the bigmen in the leauge dont even get half of that in stats and get paid comparable money (Dampier, Foyle ect) theres hardly any centers in the leauge who would be worth more than him. howard, yao, bosh and bynum (IF he stays healthy) are the only few who stick in mind. plus in this point of his career he is gearing himself for the playoffs. ill guarentee his production/minutes go up in the playoffs.

Funny you mention that, just after posting that, I noticed an article by Randy Hill about the lack of centers in the league:
FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Centers of attention: What happened to post play?

[S13_Nightkid]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

So Amare's on the block.

I'd have to think Miami (marion's expiring contract + beasley) or Detroit ('Sheed + Amir Johnson) are the leaders of the pack.

Portland could have Amare if they wanted (LaMarcus + LaFrentz' expiring), but I think they'd be pretty stupid to blow their wad just to upgrade from LaMarcus to Amare. A sweet shooting SF would be a far better addition.

Chicago would kill for Amare. If I'm them I tell them anyone but Rose and Noah is yours (Deng, Tyrus, picks and filler?) Amare and rose would be pretty nasty.

Derrick Rose is nasty and does anyone know where Hughes is heading?

[ANVIL]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Funny you mention that, just after posting that, I noticed an article by Randy Hill about the lack of centers in the league:
FOX Sports on MSN - NBA - Centers of attention: What happened to post play?

work has i blocked

can you quote it for me

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by ANVIL

work has i blocked

can you quote it for me

Funny that you can get on Zilvia, but not MSN/Fox Sports... Shows how retarded some work filters can be... Here goes:

As subject matter continues to be exhausted, don't be surprised if the History Channel's "MonsterQuest" series launches a search to locate the elusive Dominant NBA Center.

In case you hadn't noticed, only a few members of this species remain in captivity. A recent roll call suggests a migration to the Western Conference, with the Eastern Conference managing to scrape up only one legit center for its All-Star squad.

Should this be considered a crisis capable of rupturing the fabric of professional basketball? Well, that depends upon your opinion of how things should be conducted on an NBA court. I prefer to attack this issue with an expression pushed over the edge of our overuse brink by athletes and celebrities:

It is what it is.

And what it really is may be hard to define. For example, there's a tricky semantics issue. Just who or what qualifies to be referred to as a center? Is the designation contingent upon a particular array of skills or tactical formations?

How much of what may be an alleged crisis has been affected by shifts in how the game is played? Have the spread offenses now popular in high school and college made low-post centers all but disappear — much like football's spread offenses have created a shortage of NFL-caliber pocket passers?

It should be pointed out that 12 of the league's 30 starting centers are little more than transient power forwards. This change in job description may be attributed to factors such as weight gain, reconciling with failure to meet perimeter-skill expectations or injury-related adjustments.

Those of you who prefer to watch basketball that includes large players behaving like "true" centers — drop-stepping, lurking, intimidating and so on — probably were encouraged by the recent work of Los Angeles Laker Andrew Bynum and Portland Trail Blazer Greg Oden.

These are two young 7-footers who allowed themselves to be cast as centers at an early age (more on that later) and still consider it their responsibility to often play facing away from the basket on offense.

Unfortunately, Bynum has achieved knee-injury déjÃ* vu, while Oden's maturation, while apparent, isn't happening rapidly enough to keep the watchdogs quiet.

Anyway, although the NBA center issue should be left for you to navigate on a personal basis, here are a few of my opinions on this topic:

• Dominant centers are good to have.

I'll pause a moment while you absorb the shock that probably attends this claim. OK, now that we've come to grips with the notion that large, talented players can — when used in proper context — facilitate winning, let's look at some recent history.

In the last 18 NBA seasons, 11 championship teams employed a future Hall-of-Famer at the center position.

That doesn't seem all that overwhelming, right?

Actually, it can be embraced as a little more impressive when you consider that the seven exceptions include one crusty defensive crew from Detroit and six center-weak Chicago Bulls teams spirited to glory by a winger named Michael Jordan.

It should be noted that the Pistons are Finals-winning exceptions on a few fronts but might have avoided these distinctions had the Lakers' superstar feud not reached riot proportions in 2004.

• Tim Duncan is a center.

Listing Duncan as a power forward is a fine way to push his candidacy as the Best Ever At His Position while avoiding comparisons to such titans as Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Moses Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon.

Duncan is a great, great player, but despite his early work with 7-foot-1 David Robinson, the guy has always occupied the basket vicinity that's indigenous to the center. Robinson also was a center but spent a great deal of time roaming near the foul line in the San Antonio Spurs' high-low arrangement.

What does Duncan's listing have to do with our center topic? Almost nothing. It just bugs me a little and demonstrates how the severity of a perceived center crisis can be downgraded or upgraded through semantics.

• The Kevin Garnett factor

I remember my first glimpse of KG the high schooler, looking very much like a live electrical wire that had been shaken free by a nasty storm.

At at least 7-foot (don't believe he's a measly 6-foot-11), Garnett would terrorize shooters, snag rebounds, lead the break, deliver the pass and tomahawk dunk the missed shot.

His ability to play above the rim, handle the ball, make passes and get to the basket after a couple of skilled bounces was astounding and unprecedented. The above-the-rim part made it unprecedented.

I had witnessed Danny Manning rebounding, running the break and making slick passes as a 6-foot-10 high school phenom. KG may have been influenced a bit by him. And Manning had no chance escaping the influence of Magic Johnson, who was a one-man break at 6-foot-9.

While smartly playing to his strengths, Garnett became the model for a generation of tall, agile big kids who now believed they could reach the league without spending hours having a coach whack them on the back and shoulders with a football blocking pad. Why practice post moves when you could roam the perimeter, swoop in to block shots, knock down mid-range jumpers and finish on the break like KG?

Even worse, being labeled a center in high school or college could suggest you lack the agility to play power forward in college or the NBA.

Tyson Chandler considered himself a Garnett-in-training while playing four years of varsity basketball at Dominguez High in Compton, Calif. In his first two prep seasons, Chandler — working with Division-I-caliber upperclassmen who could score — seemed content to block shots, rebound and dunk off of lobs and put-backs.

By the time he was the Dons' "go-to-guy," the fast and bouncy 7-foot-1 Chandler lacked the back-to-the-basket chops required to take advantage of his length and leaping ability. By the time he was a senior, Tyson was convinced that showing off reasonable skill from behind the arc would convince the hot-pursuing NBA scouts that he could play forward. For several months, he was right.

Now working as a highly-paid center with a rejection and rebounding pedigree, Chandler 's offensive game remains limited to lobs and put-backs.

Where was all of his crucial post-development time spent in high school? Check out our next category.

• AAU and club ball

With what used to be the spring and summer skill development periods now usurped by club basketball and its seemingly endless string of tournament games, when do big kids find time to learn how to play in the post?

They often don't.

Sure, competition — especially against major talent you encounter on the club circuit — should be part of any good development plan. But club obligations can bring as many as 100 spring and summer games to a player's work load.

What is the responsibility of the club coach? That really depends on the club coach, but the crazy competition schedule leaves little time for skill development.

High school coaches often are too busy over-scheming their next game to incorporate adequate skill development into their practice plans.

There are those who do often split the breakdowns into groups of perimeter and post players, a tack that provides guards with little opportunity to work on feeding the big guys. Some of the guards who may actually want to get the ball inside often have little practical knowledge of how this is accomplished.

How about developing posting and passing skills between the summer club blitz and high school seasons? Well, many club programs stay busy in September and October; high school coaches typically are prohibited from being on a basketball court with their players until the official start of practice.

While a prevailing lurch in America toward structure — in the form of private coaches, organized leagues and tournaments — would indicate the potential for productive change, we may need to take a step back to move forward.

By that I mean much of the responsibility for individual development (that can be molded into a team upgrade) should be placed upon the player. How much work is being done by the player when nobody else is presiding or even watching?

In today's American basketball development, little kids are escorted onto teams and introduced to offensive sets before they've learned how to set up a defender on a cut, shot fake to create space or use the dribble to create separation.

The pick-up games that provided canvasses for players that the current sporting media believes have disappeared are being discouraged.

How about encouraging creativity at a young age, blended with skill development and eased into a competitive format?

• Centers don't move sneakers

While de-emphasizing excessive competition and increasing skill-building is fine, how many kids playing basketball solitaire hit the neighborhood court pretending to be an overpowering center?

The drop step and jump hook aren't exactly compelling on the highlight reel. And when was the last time your kid was excited about purchasing the signature shoe of a real live NBA center?

Adidas has KG and Duncan in its marketing arsenal, but KG never has been mistaken for a center (which is cool, he's a Hall-of-Famer) and Timmy's also a four, right?

A note to parents: If you review recent NBA draft listings and notice how many iffy center candidates were selected in the first round (with its guaranteed three-year contract worth millions), you might be inspired to have your big kid mix in some post moves with those crossovers in the driveway.

• What about the European invasion?

Well, many European development programs have the right idea regarding the balance of skill work and competition.

But the trapezoidal lane has been credited with discouraging tall kids from working on skills often attached to what passes as a legitimate center. They can shoot the blood out of the ball from distance, pass it like a guard and handle it with some fluidity, but they haven't learned to move laterally in an effort to prevent some playground fiend from driving past them.

Many tall prospects with nice footwork also have been arriving from Africa, but much of their early shooting and dribbling drills were limited to their feet.

There's been some slight post-play enlightenment coming from Europe in recent years, but I believe we've run out of Gasol brothers.

By the way, Marc is a card-carrying center, but how should we define Pau?

The article basically goes to say that the league lacks the deluge of all star calibur centers it once had because no one apparently is taking on the requisite skillset or desire to be that anymore.

[ANVIL]

yup, and thats why the few of them that are there get paid a shitton

[Phlip]

Does anyone else find it laughable that the Cavs lost on that foul last night when they had tied the game on the SAME fucked up call?
If it was a foul when they benefitted, then it was a foul when they did it. Who it is should have no bearing on it, and quite personally I think that neither one should have been called.

[bboyt3nsk]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Does anyone else find it laughable that the Cavs lost on that foul last night when they had tied the game on the SAME fucked up call?
If it was a foul when they benefitted, then it was a foul when they did it. Who it is should have no bearing on it, and quite personally I think that neither one should have been called.

I think They were both ticky tack fouls. ESPECIALLY, with that much time left in the game. The second one looked like a make up call.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by bboyt3nsk

I think They were both ticky tack fouls. ESPECIALLY, with that much time left in the game. The second one looked like a make up call.

Oh, I agree fully... With that kind of time left, if a player is not CLEARLY fouled, you don't fuckin call it, and yes, the second made up for the first.

[monkz2332]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Oh, I agree fully... With that kind of time left, if a player is not CLEARLY fouled, you don't fuckin call it, and yes, the second made up for the first.

that was a crazy game..they should have been no calls.

BTW lil wayne was on ESPN's PTI, talking about how amar'e could go to miami.
Lil Wayne - On ESPN's "Around the Horn" | Videos > HipHopDX.com

[monkz2332]

Marion for O'Neal good trade both ways..i really wanted Bosh and O'neal to work out tho.

[ro240sx]

Did u guys hear that the Cavs are also after Amare Stoudemire. It would be a hard team to beat with him in the line up.

[OptionZero]

I suppose Mike Brown has as a better shot than anyone at getting Amare to grow a brain stem and play some defense - he'd have Lebron screaming at Amare as well, and Lebron's star power overshadow's Amare's.

Hickson's gonna be productive, but still . . . a pick, Hickson, and a boatload of expirings for Amare? I've said the Grizz didn't do as badly as people think in the trade, but man, Cleveland would be getting a helluva deal.

And it's not like Phoenix will have cap space with Jrich, Nash, and Shaq still on the books for at least another year and beyond. Nor do they have young talent to build upon (that was Amare . . . )

Chicago's deal has the most talent, as they could get Hinrich, Thabo, Tyrus, Deng, Noah, picks in some combination.

[ALTRNTV]

Durant with 47pts last night in the Rookie-Sophomore game. The dude is coming into his own.

I wonder what D. Howard has up his sleeve tonight at the Dunk Contest? Pau Gasol is gonna be in it as well, to help his former teammate Rudy Fernandez.

Can't wait for HORSE.

[BOROSUN]

n8 the great

[BOROSUN]

[94cc0rd]

ehh i thought this years slam dunk contest was a disappointment.

i did like how nate came out with the green but i thought the dunks in general were quite a let-down...

[Sleepy240]

Originally Posted by 94cc0rd

ehh i thought this years slam dunk contest was a disappointment.

i did like how nate came out with the green but i thought the dunks in general were quite a let-down...

i think the best part of the whole contest was lebron throwing his name in the 2010 dunk contest hah

edit: Also I want nates shoes... that is all

[qwikspool]

last night slam dunk contest was ok. it could of been better.

[S13_Nightkid]

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

i think the best part of the whole contest was lebron throwing his name in the 2010 dunk contest hah

edit: Also I want nates shoes... that is all

If he is in hopefully other vets will join, making it a repeat(or better) of the dunk contest of '00.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by S13_Nightkid

If he is in hopefully other vets will join, making it a repeat(or better) of the dunk contest of '00.

Actually, I would like to see him and Dwight Howard duel it out on that 12-foot (or more) goal... THAT would be great.

[ALTRNTV]

Lebron is not a very creative dunker. His power and finish is what makes it spectacular. He's a good in-game dunker,
but as far as creativity goes, he's not very good.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by AkademikONE

Lebron is not a very creative dunker. His power and finish is what makes it spectacular. He's a good in-game dunker,
but as far as creativity goes, he's not very good.

That was among the excuses that he himself was throwing around while Kenny was grilling him about it during the rookie/sophomore game.

[monkz2332]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

That was among the excuses that he himself was throwing around while Kenny was grilling him about it during the rookie/sophomore game.

i remeber seeing a dunk contest when LeBron was in high school, and ya he wasnt very creative, it was pure power that got him 10's.

[qwikspool]

west dominated vs the east.

[THE PROPHET]

WEST SIDE!!!!

[ALTRNTV]

Kobe and Shaq with the Co-MVP's. Fitting end to a great game. Shaq's statline in limited minutes was rediculous.
Chris Paul also had 14pts and 14asts. The last dunk by Lebron was crazy, even though it took him 3 tries.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by monkz2332

i remeber seeing a dunk contest when LeBron was in high school, and ya he wasnt very creative, it was pure power that got him 10's.

That's how Dominique won it too, remember?

[ANVIL]

w00t shaq owns. cant wait til the fire terry porter... is there word that they are going for a trade AND a coach change? theyre not going to try to work out this roster under a different head coach?

dwight should have saved the rim raise dunk for the final round, he would have won then. sucks. he could have done a 360 or something cool too, rather than a normal dunk. his last dunk sucked. i thought he was going to dunk it from the top of the circle behind the free throw line. he could have at least tried 2 hands or something else... its all good though, dwight practically handed nate the win when he let him dunk over him.