This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 234 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Black R · 01-29-2016, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I would definitely agree with the first paragraph, but I'd have to disagree with the last one. My car, which has zero ackerman, has awesome turn in and corner bite. I'd say the only difference between my setup and an awesome roadcoarse setup would be the front camber. Mine is quite high at -7* right now.

Would you be able to get to say -2deg of camber up front, or are your tophats maxxed out already?

PoorMans180SX · 01-29-2016, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black R

Would you be able to get to say -2deg of camber up front, or are your tophats maxxed out already?

I could probably get there. -3 is probably as low as I'd want to run, as that seems to be a good setting for handling on street tires. Unfortunately that would put my strut outside the PCD of the strut tower. I'm not sure how much I care anymore, as I doubt I'll ever be doing pro-am events, but yeah. I have some experimenting to do once I get the car in the garage.

Tearlessj · 01-29-2016, 09:12 AM

I'm going to hold off on the GKtech setup until I see some proven track use. It does look promising though.

TheRealSy90 · 01-29-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ka-titties

The tie rods will hit the LCA bolts.

Just eyeballing it, seems like if I flip the bolts around and install them from the back side it would clear. Guess I gotta try it to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PoorMans180SX · 01-29-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Just eyeballing it, seems like if I flip the bolts around and install them from the back side it would clear. Guess I gotta try it to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I trimmed mine to fit the PSM tie rod offset spacers I'm running.

PoorMans180SX · 01-29-2016, 11:42 AM

For Reference, this is what my top plates look like. I have them adjusted a bit farther out now, and I believe I still have about 15mm to go before they're on the PCD edge.

This is the angle with 17x8.5+10 wheels and 215/40/17's.

You can see where my "tension rod" attaches that there are spacers that offset the control arm backwards. This is how TDP recommends installing them. I'm going to flip them around to see if I can't get a little more caster adjustment out of them. They are currently as short as they can go. Pulling the wheel forward just a little wouldn't hurt either. You can see how close it is to everything here (yes I'm tubbing my wheel wells):

You can also see how level 90mm of roll center correction keeps my control arms.
I bent a tie rod (by running over a very large rock, not on track), so I had to replace the TDP rack spacers with PSM ones; the TDP kit doesn't use factory Nissan tie rods. This turned out to be a PITA.

As you can see, the PSM spacer has more offset to it, in addition to a rib all the way around the outside. I have no idea why they do this, it says on the site to "retain a boot" but why would you put a boot around your tie rod and not your steering rack? This just makes it next to impossible to fit a boot around the whole thing. Even after you get the boot over it, it then hits the FLCA bolt. Then they're different lengths horizontally, and the TDP set doesn't have notches. I had to notch my steering rack, trim the bolts, then trim the tie rod ends, blah blah, I got it to work.

So now I need to mess around with quite a few things to get it back to zero ackerman for most of the steering, I don't mind if it has a little positive or negative at full lock, but attaining this kind of angle means having every setting right.

NISR20MO · 01-29-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I need to see if I can fit eccentric bushings on my rack since the rack mounts have already been moved forward. At that point I might run out of spline engagement on the steering shaft u-joint.

You can pull more length out of the steering shaft. It is collapsible, and can be extended or shortened to accomodate any changes within reason. Just put the open end of a wrench on the thin part of the steering shaft. Make sure that isn't so large it can slide over the big splined u-joint end. Tap the wrench with a hammer to pull it out. Check the length every few taps till you get where you need.

TheRealSy90 · 01-29-2016, 01:28 PM

So the steering shaft can be extended separate of the u joint? That's awesome if so because my adjustment at the u joint is maxed out already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I trimmed mine to fit the PSM tie rod offset spacers I'm running.

What steering rack boots are you running? My auto zone warranty boots only last a couple months at a time.

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PoorMans180SX · 01-29-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

So the steering shaft can be extended separate of the u joint? That's awesome if so because my adjustment at the u joint is maxed out already.

What steering rack boots are you running? My auto zone warranty boots only last a couple months at a time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

B15 Sentra. Beck/Arnley brand. Mine haven't ripped yet, but they pull off all the time because of those spacers. With the tdp stuff it was never an issue. I'm considering having tdp send me tie rods.

TheRealSy90 · 01-29-2016, 01:44 PM

That's the only reason I've stayed with oem/autozone tie rods is easily replaced and they're free lol.

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ka-titties · 01-29-2016, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

B15 Sentra. Beck/Arnley brand. Mine haven't ripped yet, but they pull off all the time because of those spacers. With the tdp stuff it was never an issue. I'm considering having tdp send me tie rods.

Why not relocate your rack forward if you're so tired of all the issues with the offset spacers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Just eyeballing it, seems like if I flip the bolts around and install them from the back side it would clear. Guess I gotta try it to find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They only install in one direction. Front to back. You can grind the tip of the bolt down though.

PoorMans180SX · 01-29-2016, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ka-titties

Why not relocate your rack forward if you're so tired of all the issues with the offset spacers?

I may do this when I pull the engine. My tie rods may or may not be long enough then. Just more stuff to figure out. You're right though, it would rid me of the spacer problem.

ka-titties · 01-29-2016, 02:33 PM

I have the PBM inner tie rods. I'm pretty happy with them.

sr vegas 240 · 02-05-2016, 08:26 PM

To guys with extended lca I am about to extend my lcas will I benefit much with extending it only 1" also what gauge 12? I've see few builds but nobody states what material they use plain steel or what?

sr vegas 240 · 02-06-2016, 07:07 PM

Here is what I ended up with
Extended 1.5" and notched
I'm no professional at all this was my first time gabbing something like this one mistake I made I boxed the arm before I notched it but oh well.
Only got one side done time for work.

derass · 02-06-2016, 07:34 PM

What knuckle is that? How do you tighten the balljoint? Do you rub the TC turning the other way?

PoorMans180SX · 02-06-2016, 07:37 PM

Gktech knuckle. You use a socket.

Looks like you're right on the line of overcentering. Pulling a ton of angle though!

sr vegas 240 · 02-06-2016, 07:44 PM

I only did one side but before I did it it was hitting the sway bar so I need to figure out what to do about that first but for the tc I will most likely make something bent type not sure yet. I am on offset rack spacer for now I will eventually move the rack foward hopefully before I snap the rack. I have 2 small kids and not a lot of time so I'll get back to it next week.

PoorMans180SX · 02-06-2016, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr vegas 240

I only did one side but before I did it it was hitting the sway bar so I need to figure out what to do about that first but for the tc I will most likely make something bent type not sure yet. I am on offset rack spacer for now I will eventually move the rack foward hopefully before I snap the rack. I have 2 small kids and not a lot of time so I'll get back to it next week.

You won't snap the rack. I've ran offset spacers for a year and a half and my rack is just fine.

derass · 02-06-2016, 08:06 PM

Same. No problems after ~20 drift days. Just be sure to use loctite.

Black R · 02-07-2016, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

For Reference, this is what my top plates look like. I have them adjusted a bit farther out now, and I believe I still have about 15mm to go before they're on the PCD edge.

This is the angle with 17x8.5+10 wheels and 215/40/17's.

You can see where my "tension rod" attaches that there are spacers that offset the control arm backwards. This is how TDP recommends installing them. I'm going to flip them around to see if I can't get a little more caster adjustment out of them. They are currently as short as they can go. Pulling the wheel forward just a little wouldn't hurt either. You can see how close it is to everything here (yes I'm tubbing my wheel wells):

You can also see how level 90mm of roll center correction keeps my control arms.
I bent a tie rod (by running over a very large rock, not on track), so I had to replace the TDP rack spacers with PSM ones; the TDP kit doesn't use factory Nissan tie rods. This turned out to be a PITA.

As you can see, the PSM spacer has more offset to it, in addition to a rib all the way around the outside. I have no idea why they do this, it says on the site to "retain a boot" but why would you put a boot around your tie rod and not your steering rack? This just makes it next to impossible to fit a boot around the whole thing. Even after you get the boot over it, it then hits the FLCA bolt. Then they're different lengths horizontally, and the TDP set doesn't have notches. I had to notch my steering rack, trim the bolts, then trim the tie rod ends, blah blah, I got it to work.

So now I need to mess around with quite a few things to get it back to zero ackerman for most of the steering, I don't mind if it has a little positive or negative at full lock, but attaining this kind of angle means having every setting right.

Hey what is that upper plate?

It seems I need something like that.

PoorMans180SX · 02-07-2016, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black R

Hey what is that upper plate?

It seems I need something like that.

That's the one that came with the TDP kit, but you can get a similar one from gktech.

sr vegas 240 · 02-07-2016, 02:44 PM

pbm also has them but s14 only. what do you guys do about sway bar? remove it? can it be cut and welded?

PoorMans180SX · 02-07-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr vegas 240

pbm also has them but s14 only. what do you guys do about sway bar? remove it? can it be cut and welded?

I currently don't run one, but I would like to try a shortened factory bar or something similar. GKtech is coming out with a "high-angle" bar.

derass · 02-07-2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr vegas 240

can [the swaybar] be cut and welded?

PBM has a kit for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I currently don't run one...

I remember reading on Wisefab's? website that due to the increased roll center / stiffness of kits such as their's and TDP, a swaybar is generally not required. What do you have to say about that? Perhaps in terms of driving impressions?

sr vegas 240 · 02-07-2016, 03:19 PM

I've read this somewhere on zilvia that running with out front sway helps with understeer. So removing it will be beneficial.

PoorMans180SX · 02-07-2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derass

PBM has a kit for this.

I remember reading on Wisefab's? website that due to the increased roll center / stiffness of kits such as their's and TDP, a swaybar is generally not required. What do you have to say about that? Perhaps in terms of driving impressions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr vegas 240

I've read this somewhere on zilvia that running with out front sway helps with understeer. So removing it will be beneficial.

My car definitely does NOT understeer. It's really awesome and neutral. However, once you get to the ride height I want to run, everything rubs. I still have to do tubs and such, but I think I'm going to be needing more roll stiffness to keep the car off the tires because the lateral grip has gone up so much. This is at -7* of camber, and I'd like to back that down to -5 or so, which should increase lateral grip even more.

Purely drifting, it's great. The front doesn't really move as much. But during normal fast cornering, the front moves more than the rear. It's not bad, and it certainly doesn't upset the car, but I think adding a little snappiness back into the front (via a sway bar) would help with turn in and allow me to achieve that smooth, progressive oversteer that I want. We'll see.

P.S. I think a car with no roll center correction and no front sway would feel like dogshit.

Nikita240 · 02-08-2016, 12:39 AM

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Nikita240 · 02-08-2016, 12:43 AM

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Nikzilla · 02-08-2016, 05:11 PM

So I recently purchased the new v3 gktech s13 tension rods, but I've run into a couple of issues with them.

To start off, the bolts provided by gktech for bolting the tension rod the LCA, do not actually fit the holes. They go in a bit, and then start binding and I'm unable to push them in anymore.

Here you can see the scratches on the inside of the hole where the bolt is binding. I've tried turning the bolt with a wrench but it binds up really hard and I'm pretty sure if I go any harder I'll damage the threads on the bolt.

My second issue, is that the tension rod does not clear the sway bar mounting point. Here you can see how much the tension rod overlaps over where the sway bar bushing is supposed to go. Because of this, the tension rod can't even sit flat on the LCA, so I'm unable to put it on the car.

For this picture, I moved the tension rod the side of the sway bar mounting point so that it sits flush with the LCA. You can see how far off the holes are.

All this test fitting was done with the gktech tension rod set to the same length as the OEM.

01-29-2016, 09:12 AM	#6993
Tearlessj Nissanaholic! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Memphis Age: 32 Posts: 1,907 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	I'm going to hold off on the GKtech setup until I see some proven track use. It does look promising though. __________________ Nagasaki Motors Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

01-29-2016, 11:42 AM	#6996
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	For Reference, this is what my top plates look like. I have them adjusted a bit farther out now, and I believe I still have about 15mm to go before they're on the PCD edge. This is the angle with 17x8.5+10 wheels and 215/40/17's. You can see where my "tension rod" attaches that there are spacers that offset the control arm backwards. This is how TDP recommends installing them. I'm going to flip them around to see if I can't get a little more caster adjustment out of them. They are currently as short as they can go. Pulling the wheel forward just a little wouldn't hurt either. You can see how close it is to everything here (yes I'm tubbing my wheel wells): You can also see how level 90mm of roll center correction keeps my control arms. I bent a tie rod (by running over a very large rock, not on track), so I had to replace the TDP rack spacers with PSM ones; the TDP kit doesn't use factory Nissan tie rods. This turned out to be a PITA. As you can see, the PSM spacer has more offset to it, in addition to a rib all the way around the outside. I have no idea why they do this, it says on the site to "retain a boot" but why would you put a boot around your tie rod and not your steering rack? This just makes it next to impossible to fit a boot around the whole thing. Even after you get the boot over it, it then hits the FLCA bolt. Then they're different lengths horizontally, and the TDP set doesn't have notches. I had to notch my steering rack, trim the bolts, then trim the tie rod ends, blah blah, I got it to work. So now I need to mess around with quite a few things to get it back to zero ackerman for most of the steering, I don't mind if it has a little positive or negative at full lock, but attaining this kind of angle means having every setting right. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

02-06-2016, 07:37 PM	#7007
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Gktech knuckle. You use a socket. Looks like you're right on the line of overcentering. Pulling a ton of angle though! __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

02-08-2016, 12:39 AM	#7018
Nikita240 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Encino, CA Posts: 2 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	.................................................. ..... Last edited by Nikita240; 03-31-2016 at 04:48 AM..

02-08-2016, 12:43 AM	#7019
Nikita240 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Encino, CA Posts: 2 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	.................................................. ..... Last edited by Nikita240; 03-31-2016 at 04:48 AM..

01-29-2016, 02:33 PM	#7003
ka-titties Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Near that guy you know Posts: 1,561 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	I have the PBM inner tie rods. I'm pretty happy with them.

02-05-2016, 08:26 PM	#7004
sr vegas 240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: vegas Age: 36 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	To guys with extended lca I am about to extend my lcas will I benefit much with extending it only 1" also what gauge 12? I've see few builds but nobody states what material they use plain steel or what?

02-06-2016, 07:07 PM	#7005
sr vegas 240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: vegas Age: 36 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	Here is what I ended up with Extended 1.5" and notched I'm no professional at all this was my first time gabbing something like this one mistake I made I boxed the arm before I notched it but oh well. Only got one side done time for work.

02-06-2016, 07:34 PM	#7006
derass Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 36 Posts: 1,182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What knuckle is that? How do you tighten the balljoint? Do you rub the TC turning the other way?

02-06-2016, 07:44 PM	#7008
sr vegas 240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: vegas Age: 36 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	I only did one side but before I did it it was hitting the sway bar so I need to figure out what to do about that first but for the tc I will most likely make something bent type not sure yet. I am on offset rack spacer for now I will eventually move the rack foward hopefully before I snap the rack. I have 2 small kids and not a lot of time so I'll get back to it next week.

02-06-2016, 08:06 PM	#7010
derass Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 36 Posts: 1,182 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Same. No problems after ~20 drift days. Just be sure to use loctite.

02-07-2016, 02:44 PM	#7013
sr vegas 240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: vegas Age: 36 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	pbm also has them but s14 only. what do you guys do about sway bar? remove it? can it be cut and welded?

02-07-2016, 03:19 PM	#7016
sr vegas 240 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: vegas Age: 36 Posts: 302 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	I've read this somewhere on zilvia that running with out front sway helps with understeer. So removing it will be beneficial.

02-08-2016, 05:11 PM	#7020
Nikzilla Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Los Angeles Age: 29 Posts: 291 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So I recently purchased the new v3 gktech s13 tension rods, but I've run into a couple of issues with them. To start off, the bolts provided by gktech for bolting the tension rod the LCA, do not actually fit the holes. They go in a bit, and then start binding and I'm unable to push them in anymore. Here you can see the scratches on the inside of the hole where the bolt is binding. I've tried turning the bolt with a wrench but it binds up really hard and I'm pretty sure if I go any harder I'll damage the threads on the bolt. My second issue, is that the tension rod does not clear the sway bar mounting point. Here you can see how much the tension rod overlaps over where the sway bar bushing is supposed to go. Because of this, the tension rod can't even sit flat on the LCA, so I'm unable to put it on the car. For this picture, I moved the tension rod the side of the sway bar mounting point so that it sits flush with the LCA. You can see how far off the holes are. All this test fitting was done with the gktech tension rod set to the same length as the OEM.